All hail the All Blacks, or "The Death of English Rugby"

Hey guys, any rugby (union!) fans in the house?


Thought it was worth posting a thread to just discuss world rugby, and basically just drool at how ridiculously talented those Kiwi boys (well, kiwis + any island within 500 miles....they're not fussy over residence) are!


The world cup next year is gonna be a cakewalk I fear. They beat the nearest contenders France 47 - 3 at the weekend, and even if France are sometimes awful, you can't really argue with that scoreline!

Oh, and the world champions are terrible.

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She says brief things, her love’s a pony
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Rugby fan here!

Quite amazing how far England in particular have plummetted since '03. Yes they had a mass exodus of retirements and Sir Clive leaving too, but I think even the Wallabies would knock them off at the moment Is it time for Andy Robinson to go?

Some interesting results over the weekend; Scotland having a big win, Ireland a very strong performance, Welsh 2nd XV doing well, woeful Wallabies scraping by a determined yet boring Italy, the Argies proving how good they really are and the ABs are just freaks. Absolute freaks!

What are people's predictions for this weekend?

I think the Irish will beat Australia in a close one, the French will improve against NZ but still go down by 20 points, Wales will win big over Canada, Argentina over Italy (in what could turn out to be possibly the world's most boring game the way these two teams play), England only just over South Africa, and the Pacific Islands could just about maybe knock the Scots off.

I'm pretty excited about next year already, the Kiwis are way out in front but as usual I think the only teams that could beat them in RWC is going to be either an Australian team playing out of its skin or the French having one of those days where they'd blow a team playing with 30 players off the park.

This weekend, I'm expecting a better England performance - its exciting to see Lewsey back where he belongs, on the wing. Also in Cueto we've got a world class finisher.


I think what's hurt us (England) a lot is the key partnerships aren't formed at all. For example, you can't expect to be reat when you've got an inexperienced scrum half like Perry (not just inexperienced at international level, he's only been playing pro for a couple years!) coupled with someone ke Hodgson who is a boottler and who sadly hasn't the head for international rugby.

Also when Allen was at inside centre, the relationshi betweeen the 3 is very weak.


I'm expecting bette things of the Tait - Noon partnership, since they play together in the centres for Newcastle, and Richards has more experience than Perry. Perhaps Harry Ellis is worth a go - he's not great but at least when Corry plays Number 8, they have a club partnership (Leicester) in a key relationship.


NZ for the world cup. A lot of people are saying they've peaked, they always do and they'll fold. Not this team, they're just so good! The only upset could be an injury to Carter, and of course, if McCaw takes another serious concussion, he may have to quit rugby. That's the only way they'll lose - or as you say, an awesome Australian performance.

Wales are the best hope of the British and Irish sides, though Ireland also look good.

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I agree with your thoughts on the importance of partnerships.

Since Tim Horan and Dan Herbert retired we've used about a million different centres. The Giteau-Mortlock pairing seemed to be going well for a while, seeing as they fed off Gregan/Larkham so it was essentially the Brumbies backline, but with Gits going to 9 we're looking for someone new. I don't think Tuqiri/Mortlock is the answer.

What is good though is that the Wallabies generally suck the year or two before a cup- eg 89 & 90, 97 & 98 and had a fairly ordinary 2003 and went on to make the final in those years. Look out, coz at the moment we're really bad so that's got to mean we'll cream it next year

been saying it for years, bring back alan jones as coach

But yea....NZ looking pretty dang sweet at the moment. It's sweet to watch but at the same time, so woefully painful

Giteau looks very good at 9, though I guess we'll have to see how the final couple of tour games go. Not convinced about Rogers at 10, he doesn't boss the game well enough.


Australia are so lucky, they've probablty got a backs division as good as NZ's, and no one can touch Latham at full back, he's just excellent. Tuiqiri is a big strong lad, and was good against wales. They'll be a force for sure, I think RSA are probably a bit short of optiions and only really have a single 15 who can compete for the world cup, if anyone goes theyre screwed.


Read an article the other day about why England are short of leaders right now, and it suugestd its because a lot ofo the big leadership positions are taken in the English Premiership by foreign plaayers - the likes of Spencer, Burke, Mehrtens and Marshall (wales). Probably I'd agree with that, but once Richard Hill and the beast that is Lawrence Delagglio is fit again we'll have options!

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She says brief things, her love’s a pony
My love’s subliminal

I don't think Rogers is up to it at 10 either, his best position is 15 but as you say, no one comes close to Latham at fullback!

What is the perecntage of foreign players in the Guiness Premiership? And are most of them playing in the vital positions- eg 9, 10, 12? I was really bummed when the Waratahs and Wallabies got rid of Matt Burke, I hear he's been carving it up over there for Newcastle! And what's wrong with Jonny?

Burke iis a class act, so key for you guys in the past few years. Jonny won't ever play properly for england again - he's had about 10 unrelated injuries since 2003, and he's not played for england since the world cu final

I still maintain that if he'd stayed fit, he'd still be the world's best fly half, Dan Carter or not. His kicking was better than Carter's, his defense is better, and he's stronger too. But I don't think well ever see him have a run out in an england shirt again

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She says brief things, her love’s a pony
My love’s subliminal

my housemates pretty pissed about that. you know, i might go to the supermarket and buy a bag of kiwis, leave them in places he goes to in the house :P in his shoes, on his bed :P

sure he'd see the funny side lol


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

gareth Wrote:
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>
> I think the Irish will beat Australia in a close
> one, the French will improve against NZ but still
> go down by 20 points, Wales will win big over
> Canada, Argentina over Italy (in what could turn
> out to be possibly the world's most boring game
> the way these two teams play), England only just
> over South Africa, and the Pacific Islands could
> just about maybe knock the Scots off.
>


I got pretty close with my predictions!

Very disappointing to lose this morning, but all Wallabies fans are now getting very used to it

Bring back John Eales!

I think it just came down to the fact that in the first half, the irish probably played better than even NZ do, and the conditions were classic Lansdowne road, piss poor with swirling winds and rain - something I suspect the wallabies aren't used to!

England were pretty crap again, except that Josh Lewswey had a zen like game at fullback, without him we'd have been 25 point down at half time I reckon, awesome tackling, the man's a beast.

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She says brief things, her love’s a pony
My love’s subliminal

Latest IRB rankings:

1. New Zealand - 94.59
2. France - 85.86
3. Ireland - 84.68
4. Australia - 84.63
5. South Africa - 83.83
6. Argentina - 79.70
7. England - 79.55
8. Scotland - 77.72
9. Wales - 77.02
10. Samoa - 73.86

I'm surprised to see the Welsh as low as they are, however they had a heap of injuiries in the last Six Nations didn't they which must have affected results. Also the draw with Australia probably didn't help a lot either.

Well, Wales had a great 2005, but a poor summer (lost twice to argentina - though it was a second string side) and an average 6 nations. Scotland had a much improved 6 nations, so it always comes down to beating those right nearest you in the rankings, and since Argentina and scotland are doing well its not easy.

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She says brief things, her love’s a pony
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Andy Robinson is gone! 10 months out from the Cup- is this the time for Sir Clive to make a comeback?

Nah. His skill was getting everything right over the 2 years before 2003, getting the 15 man team sorted and playing together. Its too late now, we've just got to bite the bullet and stick to a 15 man side again - though the injuries haven't helped. I mean, ideally we have a really good side, capable of semi finals on paper:-


1.Vickery
2.Thompson
3.Sheridan
4.Jones
5.Kay / Grewcock
7.R Hill
6.Corry
8.Delaglio
9.Richards
10.Wilkinson
12.Tait
13Simpson-Daniel / Farrell
14Lewsey
15Balshaw
11Cohen


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But of course that won't happen, I doubt Richard Hill will be fit, or Wilko and Farrell might not have had long enough in union - though he was a god in league!

Glad to see Robbo gone, not sure where we go from here really. I think a figurehead, a motivator is probably what we need, not Johnson perhaps, but someone like that. THe rumours are that Warren Gartland (1st choice imo) is being groomed to replace Graham Henry for the ABs should he want a new challenge. So aybe he won't be there for uus, would be great though.

Thing is, I like the rest of England have been screaming for Robbo to go, but in reality its not all his fault - the players are all making errrors on the field, giving away points and simple, basic handling errors. Sure, they could be getting better training, but if they're supposedly international rugby players, you've got to hope their basic skills are present!

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My love’s subliminal

quite a few of the '03 team looked to be in that squad you just posted. i think you're right that you guys need a pretty inspiring coach to bring it all together, it's not as if those guys have forgotten how to play.

I think our teams have a few of the same problem- a lack of confidence generally and a lack of genuine world number 1 in their position (ok so we've got Latham at 15 but there's only so much a fullback can do!)

If you look at the AB's, they've got world no. 1s everywhere and the Irish have got O'Driscoll AND are full of confidence and belief in themselves. also when the Welsh were rampant year or two ago they seemed to play and feed and build off each other.

Here we go guys! 2007 season starts now!

Super 14 starts TONIGHT and Six Nations over the weekend I believe and I for one can not wait, and it all ends up with a World Cup in September! Doesn't get much better!

Fearless predictions for the year:

Super 14 Finalists will be (even without All Blacks playing until Round 8):

1. Crusaders
2. Hurricanes
3. Chiefs
4. Force

My Waratahs will finish about 6th, Brumbies about the same and the Reds about 12th.

Six Nations will finish with a three way tie between Ireland, France and Wales, England 4th, then Scotland, and Italy wont win a game but will be more competitive than ever.

World Cup will be a New Zealand - Wales final (you read it here first) with the All Blacks running out convincing winners. Australia wont get past the quarter finals, either that or we'll go and surpise everyone and win the bloody thing!

Player to watch will be a guy called Kurtley Beale for the Waratahs. He's 18, and so far has very much lived up to the hype that ahs been put on him. They're calling him a 'new Mark Ella' which is stonkingly good! Matt Giteau I think will be back to his best after a pretty ordinary 2006 as well.

And personally, the mighty Lindfield Rugby Club will make big gains back up the ladder this year, narrowly missing out on the semis in 1st and 2nd Grade, make the semis in 3rd Grade and win 4th Grade. Colts will make the semis as well. Had first training for the year last night and am very excitied. We've got a new coach, a big kiwi who was in the mix for All Black selection in his day, who seems very impressive.

Bring it on!

Thoughts, comments, discussion, predictions?

Nice predictions!

Super 14 - even with all the ABs away for the first half (such bullshit imo) Crusaders will do what they always do. Such a good side. Can Giteau do anything to help Western Force really?


6 Nations - Okay, I'm a huge england fan, so I'm gonna say we'll be 3rd. Ireland 1st (no grand slam, they'll lose in cardiff tomorrow), france 2nd, england, wales, scotland then italy. I was gonna have a bet on Italy winning today, think its possible, but not gonna happen.

Player to watch - FARRELL!! I reckon he'll have a great 6 nations, as long as Wilkinson is on the pitch with him.

IMO, if wilko doesnt play a game, neither will Farrell. You can't have Toby Flood (20 year old second fly half for eng) playing next pot farrell - gotta have some experience. So imo it'll be

9. Ellis
10. Wilko
12. Farrell
13. Tindall
or
9. Ellis
10. Flood
12. Tindall
13. Tait

combos for every game. Otherwise there's no experience at the team's backbone of 9,10, 12.


World Cup - All Blacks will run out winners having beaten ireland in the final. England to get to semis.

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She says brief things, her love’s a pony
My love’s subliminal

OH MY JONNY IS GOD OF RUGBY!

Out for 3 years, played 42 mins since his last injury and has an absolute BLINDER of a game. This man is the perfect standoff!

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She says brief things, her love’s a pony
My love’s subliminal

Dunno about perfect, but Jonny is very impressive

Highlight for me over the weekend though was the much maligned Waratahs scrum scoring a push over against the Lions in Jo'burg. Noice!

French smashed the Italians which must be a huge disappointment for the Azzuri, I thought they were improving and were geting closer to the pack but maybe not.

I've heard Farrell could be the goods........