Tyre wear and grip profiles for each tyre type (Excel sheet released) .

in track editing it is normal that 0=65536 in most of the parameters.
the common value for this entry seems -768 (64768-65536). but original imola has -512 (65024), silverstone and hockenheim have -640 (64896) and a1 ring and suzuka have 0 (if 0=65536)

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2013 05:35PM by R_Scandura.

R_Scandura Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> in track editing it is normal that 0=65536 in most
> of the parameters.
> the common value for this entry seems -768
> (64768-65536). but original imola has -512
> (65024), silverstone and hockenheim have -640
> (64896) and a1 ring and suzuka have 0 (if 0=65536)

Well, that 64896 proves that the number*256 theory is wrong. Anyway, there are intervals of 128 between each value and a huge gap of at least 512 to Suzuka. It is, indeed, very odd.

probably the theory of the sign is correct, otherwise they would have expressed it directly in 768, 512... etc. using such multiple may mean this specific value is intended to add something or substract something.
the description says added to car. Related to cc grip factor
i found that the power/grip factor seem to work as percentages of the gp3edit bph and grip. so if they really mean to tweak the grip i may think that 768 is 7.68% of the grip. when your car is inside the range of the car ahead your grip is temporarily boosted by 7.68%. A second case is directly about grip. your grip is increased by 768 units (in example 16320+768) simulating the slipstream. opposite sign may cause the effect to dont be able to overtake easily

-------------------------------

Is there noticeable difference in slitstream behavior in Suzuka?

Hello...

I can confirm, that cc power factor and cc grip factor are added to the "gp3edit bph and grip"/performance file values! In theory you can adjust the strenght of the AI drivers with these values! (the values are only for AI drivers) ... means f.e. - if the values are each 490 they drive 1:30 a lap, if the values are 540 each they drive 1:28 a lap ... (there is no need to change any performance file data anymore for the AI drivers - you just can change these values to adjust)

If you rise/reduce the value above cc power factor - it is called "grip" - their performance will also rise/reduce, but maybe just 0,1 seconds per 128 (approx.)! But do not know if it also effects the human drivers!?? And i do not know what the exact effect is - maybe it has something to do what Rob wrote (see below)...

For Suzuka - can not tell, but as there were some "rear-end collision", maybe it is the problem what i describe next:

Rob wrote: "when your car is inside the range of the car ahead your grip is temporarily boosted by 7.68%"

That is really interesting because THAT can lead to "rear-end collision", too!!! (and i know, that there were some collisions also in Suzuka)

I also know for sure 2 tracks where there is a boost and the boost is MUCH TO HIGH but i do not know which value(values) i have to change...

Maybe you will find the failure - here are some values of booth MD Files:

1.

16694 ; air resistance?
512 ; subtracted from diff between field_e2 of 2 cars and then compared to speed of first car
64000 ; added to car.field_108. related to cc grip factor
576 ; grip???

2.

16872 ; air resistance?
128 ; subtracted from diff between field_e2 of 2 cars and then compared to speed of first car
64896 ; added to car.field_108. related to cc grip factor
640 ; grip???

I do not think that there is a other value which has also a influence on that case... On booth tracks, if you get in the slipstream, your car is almost "unbrakeable" anymore... SAME for the AI drivers, and then they often crash in your back!!!

For me, it looks like either the value "subtraced..." or "added..." or "grip" (the value is often very high - above 512 - with "problem tracks" ) is the reason!

I thought, that it is "subtraced...", but there seems no real effect (in this case) if the value is 128 or 512 - or IF, then it gets worse if i rise the value! Therefore, if i have some "rear-end collision" at one track, i reduce the value "subtraced..." to 128 - that helps normally....

As i know some tracks where there are some "rear-end collision" - maybe because of the "boost" - it would be very interesting which value is the reason for that!

Any idea?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2013 01:29AM by meanmc.

meanmc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Therefore, if i have some
> "rear-end collision" at one track, i reduce the
> value "subtraced..." to 128 - that helps
> normally....
>

This makes sense. This value is probably the maximum distance between two cars for activating splitstream.

RRRReméééédiooo schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------

> This makes sense. This value is probably the
> maximum distance between two cars for activating
> splitstream.

Could be, but in my second example we already have a value of 128! And there is still no braking-effect/too much slipstream!

Either i have to reduce the value to "0" - a few tracks have this value - or there is also another value which has an influence!!?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2013 03:13AM by meanmc.

does anybody know what are these field_e2 and field_108?

just to say something stoopid, the first parameter talks about subtracting something and comparing between the two cars. Trusting this description, supposing both values "added" and substracted" work together, couldn't be that the one "adding to cc grip factor" decides the amount of boost and the one "comparing the cars" sets how fast this boost is delivered by the distance/difference of speed of the two cars? at equal amount of boost, a value like 128 gives boost softly, a value of 512 tops the boost faster? so having an high boost and an high trimmer causes the unbrakeable rear end collision. if the amount of boost is too low there would be few to compare anycase. sort of...
there is also this 768 ; grip??? that seems to be on the same line al the previous two and has a puzzling description.


We'd need some of the guys who modded gp3 in the first era. I imagine mr Crammond reading these pages and having a laugh at our attempts to decode the data

-------------------------------




Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2013 03:33PM by R_Scandura.

R_Scandura Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> good find, Vins. Which values did you used (high
> or low) that gave evidence of this behaviour so i
> can put them as reference in the guide. did you
> find a relation between the two parameters about
> when one acts and when the other acts as well?

For now I only found that with low values (0-4000) your team box doesn't call you.
Instead with others value it's not clear the behaviour of your team box to call for change tyres.

Bye!

R_Scandura Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> does anybody know what are these field_e2 and
> field_108?
>
> just to say something stoopid, the first parameter
> talks about subtracting something and comparing
> between the two cars. Trusting this description,
> supposing both values "added" and substracted"
> work together, couldn't be that the one "adding to
> cc grip factor" decides the amount of boost and
> the one "comparing the cars" sets how fast this
> boost is delivered by the distance/difference of
> speed of the two cars? at equal amount of boost, a
> value like 128 gives boost softly, a value of 512
> tops the boost faster? so having an high boost and
> an high trimmer causes the unbrakeable rear end
> collision. if the amount of boost is too low there
> would be few to compare anycase. sort of...
> there is also this 768 ; grip??? that seems
> to be on the same line al the previous two and has
> a puzzling description.
>
>
> We'd need some of the guys who modded gp3 in the
> first era. I imagine mr Crammond reading these
> pages and having a laugh at our attempts to decode
> the data

I have some listings kindly sent to me by René Smit. Both values are part of the "car struct", a memory range where all car related values are stored and read in real time. I'm building a tool so you guys can watch these values and their changes.

field_e2 is marked as "NumFeetIntoLap" which I suppose is how many feet the car did drive since the beginning of the lap. So the difference between field_e2 of two cars is in fact, the distance between the two cars (in feet).

There's no description for field_108...its values are in the 64000-65000 range and the values are "higher" for the faster cars. field_108 is fixed for each car.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2013 05:25PM by RRRReméééédiooo.

Great!

Some experiences:

"grip" - every 128 step the AI drivers gain approx. 0,1 seconds per lap!! (128 lowest tested)

"added..." - if you change the values to 30000 or 80000 the cars not even getting the first corner (because they went into the gravel, can not hold the line)

"subtraced..." - as higher the value is, as more problems with crashes i have!

"air resistence" - as higher the value is, as quicker the cars are



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2013 06:20PM by meanmc.

meanmc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great!
>
> Some experiences:
>
> "grip" - every 128 step the AI drivers gain
> approx. 0,1 seconds per lap!! (128 lowest)
>
> "added..." - if you change the values to 30000 or
> 80000 the cars not even getting the first corner
>
> "subtraced..." - as higher the value is, as more
> problems with crashes i have!
>
> "air resistence" - as higher the value is, as
> quicker the cars are

About "added" - what happens to them? They crash or they do not accelerate?

About "air resistance" - you say they are quicker. Do their top speed decrease? If this value really means air resistance, a higher value would give lower top speed and higher corner speed (increasing the effect of wings).

RRRReméééédiooo schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> About "added" - what happens to them? They crash
> or they do not accelerate?

-> for example, if you change the values to either 30000 or 80000 and you watch a race at Hockenheim 2000 they do not make the first corner, because they went off in the gravel! They just can not "hold the line"! But not all of them, it seems like the first car "gives the speed value for the following", the next cars also went off (as they have a similar speed) and the others have to slow down and then "can make the corner" (something like this) Or, what is more likely, that - as it is already mentioned in the magic data description, that it has something to do with the generell grip! (Of course, maybe the values are utopic... smile... and the game can nor work with them)

> About "air resistance" - you say they are quicker.
> Do their top speed decrease? If this value really
> means air resistance, a higher value would give
> lower top speed and higher corner speed
> (increasing the effect of wings).

-> No, their top-speed increases!! (if you increase the value) (vice versa if you decrease the value)
That means - again Hockenheim 2000 - if you have the value at 17000 they drive approx. 370 km/h at the first straight, and if you have the value at 16500 they just drive approx. 350 km/h!

I am just preparing a race at this circuit, therefore i am really into it at the moment! And it is almost impossible to have no accidents at the first few laps - i did try almost everything now... smile...



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2013 06:23PM by meanmc.

meanmc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> -> for example, if you change the values to either
> 30000 or 80000 and you watch a race at Hockenheim
> 2000 they do not make the first corner, because
> they went off in the gravel! They just can not
> "hold the line"! But not all of them, it seems
> like the first car "gives the speed value for the
> following", the next cars also went off (as they
> have a similar speed) and the others have to slow
> down and then "can make the corner" (something
> like this) Or, what is more likely, that - as it
> is already mentioned in the magic data
> description, that it has something to do with the
> generell grip! (Of course, maybe the values are
> utopic... smile... and the game can nor work with
> them)
>

I need to test it for myself to be sure, but I think there's a factor with similar effect in the GP2 track file. It's related with the cornering of ccs in the beginning of the races. In fact there are two values working together in GP2.

> -> No, their top-speed increases!! (if you
> increase the value) (vice versa if you decrease
> the value)
> That means - again Hockenheim 2000 - if you have
> the value at 17000 they drive approx. 370 km/h at
> the first straight, and if you have the value at
> 16500 they just drive approx. 350 km/h!

What about the cornering speed?

Yes, will be great, if you can also have a look!

And with "corner speed" - the difference is 3 km/h (faster with 17000 as with 16500) at the old agipkurve, the quickest curve at the old circuit! (220 to 223 km/h)... As higher the value, as faster they are - on the straight and in the curves!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2013 06:42PM by meanmc.

good stuff, it looks like the effect is opposite than what i've been reading about it. what about the human player? do you feel better driveability at higher or lower values?
unless the effect is quick vs driveability. i got so far that lower values should give better driveability, i guess by lower speed into corners.



RRRReméééédiooo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have some listings kindly sent to me by René
> Smit. Both values are part of the "car struct", a
> memory range where all car related values are
> stored and read in real time. I'm building a tool
> so you guys can watch these values and their
> changes.
>
> field_e2 is marked as "NumFeetIntoLap" which I
> suppose is how many feet the car did drive since
> the beginning of the lap. So the difference
> between field_e2 of two cars is in fact, the
> distance between the two cars (in feet).
>
> There's no description for field_108...its values
> are in the 64000-65000 range and the values are
> "higher" for the faster cars. field_108 is fixed
> for each car.

sounds interesting, please keep us informed with all these data. i always tried to extract all the possible data from cars and races to build manager tools

-------------------------------




Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2013 08:02PM by R_Scandura.

Maybe this factor is not really "air resistance". In GP2, there is a factor called "acceleration" in the track .dat files. The same one also exists in GP3 tracks (at least in the Track Editor), but I suppose it becomes useless once you patch a .dat file with magic data. It's effect was very similar to this, but I've never noticed cornering speed changes. Anyway, the effect on top speed was the same and this increase in corner speed is very small (compared to the effect of a change of the same magnitude in any of the perf factors, including "track grip" ). Maybe this value is a "replacement" because looking at the magic data, I would bet that the "acceleration" value is one of those "unused" values before and after "track grip".

In GP2 the effect of "air resistance" is very clear, noticeable and somewhat realistic.

>sounds interesting, please keep us informed with all these data. i always tried to extract all the possible data from cars and races to build manager tools

I will. There are two ways of accessing this data. One is like the tool I'm building: looking directly at GP3 memory. The other is by decompressing saved games and looking inside them with the hex-editor (or building a tool to look at the values), but that way you need to look inside several saved games to see the how the values change.

René just sent me the data yesterday and it's much more complex than the GP2 data. I'm trying to create a tool so you guys can read the data without many hassles, preliminary tests look promising, but I didn't include many of the possible values yet.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2013 11:30PM by RRRReméééédiooo.

R_Scandura schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> good stuff, it looks like the effect is opposite
> than what i've been reading about it. what about
> the human player? do you feel better driveability
> at higher or lower values?
> unless the effect is quick vs driveability. i got
> so far that lower values should give better
> driveability, i guess by lower speed into
> corners.

Can not judge this... I tried 16000 and 17500, but i can not see any big difference, except that i did like more 16000, because everything seems a little bit slower (driving, steering), and therefore it looks that you can drive more precisely?! But if you drive 10 laps with 17500 you will be able to get into an rhythm and will adapt the new "feeling"!

But pretty clear is, that you are faster with 17500 and you can see this also at the underbody! With 17500 you have more rubbing at the rear!! With 16000 less...

RRRReméééédiooo schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe this factor is not really "air resistance".


hmm, why not?! I think it is - just the values are "reversed"!

If you got less "air resistance", you got faster - vice versa!! I think that makes sence and the value behaves like it is "air resistance"!

then it looks more comprehensible to call it "air penetration factor" than "air resistance"

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2013 10:08AM by R_Scandura.