Damper settings

Hi all!!

I've been reading some of these setup guides you can find on the internet and somehow I get the feeling the parts concerning damper setting are not that complete or precise.

I however like the site
[www.sportplanet.com]
the most, very nice, but the part in one of the tables

Mid-corner F bump - F bump +
Transition F rebound - F bump +
or or
R bump + R bump -
R rebound + R rebound -

Exit F rebound - F rebound +
R bump + R bump -

describing how to set bump and rebound dampers for more or less oversteering confuses me,
what are the physics behind these adjustments? F.ex. how come increasing the rear bump will give you more oversteering when speeding up and exiting a corner? Somehow it doesn't make sense to me, I thought increasing the bump in the back will result in less traction and grip in the back?? Can anyone give me a hint here?

thanx!!
Santie

I can understand your confusion. It took me a year or more to get the hang of it, and I not totally sure that I really have yet.

Anyway, dampers are like springs. They are the spring before and after the spring works, that makes sure that the car do not oscilate when you shift weight, by turning braking or accelerating. Turning loads the outside, braking loads front and accel loads rear. If the spring where the only component that handled the weight the car would wobble back and forth and from side to side. Try punching a slinky, and you will see how it stores energy, by contracting, and releases it again by expanding.

The trick is to get the suspension system to be hard when you DO NOT need grip, and soft when you need it. Turning left, you would initially like the suspension to expand (rebound) rapidly at the inside (more grip, because the tyre gets pressed to the tarmac), and contract (bump) at the outside (prevents the tyre from overloading by pressiong softer at the tarmac).

Now, how does a damper work then? Do you know the type of doors that resist both push and shove, if you do it real quick? It is impossible to slam them shut or open, because a system in the door applys resistance to rapid movements. And if you push or pull gently there is no real resistance and it is easy both to open and close the door? There you have it, dampers, both rebound and bump. In this example it would be both a slow and a fast damper, since both a quick hard pressure and a extended hard pressure are met with the same reaction from the door.

If the door had not resisted a quick hard application of pressure, then it would be a slow damper system. And since it resists both push and pull it is both rebound and bump.

If the door had not resisted a prolonged hard application of pressure, like cornering, braking and accelerating, then it would be a fast damper system. And since it resists both push and pull it is both rebound and bump.

So prolonged amounts of pressure are handled by slow dampers, and quick sharp pressures like a dent in or small rock on the tarmac are handled by fast dampers. The higher setting gives higher resistance to weigh shifts in the car, and the higher the setting the longer time the dampers will work before the springs and roll-bars kick in.

So lets say that you are getting oversteer as you apply throttle out of a corner, what should you do? The reason for oversteer is that the front end has MORE grip than the rear. So you can give the front less grip by adjusting slow dampers or you can give the rear more grip. The front is in rebound and the rear is in bump, because the car has the weight distributed to the rear. It is squating, which means the front tyres tend to want to lift off the tarmac, and the rear tyres are forced down towards the tarmac. Higher settings of damper means less grip, because it acts like a stiffer spring. So increasing the front bump would put more pressure at the front tyres.

From dampers 0 and up to a certain point the grip is increased, because the tyre has more contact with the tarmac. More oversteer. But after a certain point the front tyres get too much pressure and overload and that means less grip. The same does not goes for the rear. It is already overloaded since the tyres are slipping. So less rebound at the rear gives more grip. Both methods can remove oversteer at acceleration at the exit of the corner.

Dampers also do other things. The higher the damper setting the more stable the car is at heavy weight shifts like high speed corners, heavy accel, and heavy brake. This is because the spring recieves less energy and hence stores less, because the dampers take the initial loads. Than also means that it releases less energy, and hence the springs expand less later in the manouver. The downside is that you get overall less grip, which means the tyres slide more.

Want more grip overall, reduce the damper settings, but that will make the car less stable since the springs might absorb high energy loads which they release as they expand, hence they expand more and force the opposed set of springs (brake/accel - front and rear, corners inside outside) to contract, which then again later might expand which forces the opposed springs to contract. It is called chassis overreaction.

Example, you brake heavily just before a corner and the car dives. As the brake period gets less intense, the springs especially at the front, begin to release stored energy and expand. A poorly balanced suspension would dive as you brake, and then squat as you release the brakes, and then it might even dive again. This is not good, because you probably are going to turn, and the car is still rocking back and forth, when you need constant and stable grip levels to corner safely. A correctly balanced car will also dive when you brake, but it will not overreact and sqaut afterwards. When you are done braking, it is balanced once more (the springs do not store or release energy any more), and it is ready to corner. A car that has to high damper settings forces the tyre to the tarmac too much and hence the tyre overheats and blisters. DC smashed a tyre in 1 lap at Hockenheim last year this way. Since GP3 does not really model tyre temperatures, this does not happen in GP3. The only negative thing about overdampened cars is the excessive loss of grip, due to the fact that the suspension constantly acts like solid treetrunk and "never" expands or contracts. Higher slow dampers also make the car react quicker, and lower settings make it more sluggish.

Fast dampers are used when you see very small peaks in the ride height telemety at points were you feel you lack proper control. The heavy the peaks are the less dampers you will need to use. Generally I keep the low regardless, but you can make the car react quicker to inputs by stiffening them up, or make it more sluggish by softening them. Just make sure that the tarmac is smooth.

The fundamental trick is how it fits with the other corners. No gain if you fix handling at one corner and wreck it at another. And to get that right, there is no other way than trail and error. I prefer medium front damper settings and medium-high to high settings at the rear. It slides with the rear a bit as you exit corners, but then again I like the stability of high settings, and I am not afraid of a bit of opposite lock.

A hope this helps and that the structure of thought isn't too messy presented. If anything is unclear, just ask about it...

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

There is a grave error here:

"So increasing the front bump would put more pressure at the front tyres.

From dampers 0 and up to a certain point the grip is increased, because the tyre has more contact with the tarmac. More oversteer. But after a certain point the front tyres get too much pressure and overload and that means less grip. The same does not goes for the rear. It is already overloaded since the tyres are slipping. So less rebound at the rear gives more grip. Both methods can remove oversteer at acceleration at the exit of the corner. "

It should be rebound for the front and bump for the rear, like it says earlier in the text.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

MEGAPOST-MAN has returned! We can now sleep safer, knowing the children will be protected.



'I reserve the right to contradict myself' - Richey Edwards, 1994.

Thanks a lot Morbid,

I really enjoyed reading your overview ...
I thought it was very clear ... right after I got your second message !!! ;0))

It's funny, because the guide I was referring to in the first message suggested for MORE understeering to soften the FRONT rebound and INCREASE the rear bump in the phase of cornering and acceleration .... ?? Does this make sense to you?


But can you tell me something else. Why do guides (normally) suggest selecting the rebound dampers a lot stiffer than the bump? And do they always say (normally)? What are the exceptions here? What can you say about the relation Bump/Rebound? How do you proceed to find your settings?

Thanks again!!!

an excellent post on damper/setups, thanx Morbid

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[www.mediafire.com] Some say you should click it, you know you want to. [www.gp4central.com] <----GP4 Central

Well it is hard to argue with Doug. He has been playing racing games forever, and also works with race cars for a living.

However, he does not really apply the notion that the left side of the car, and the right side of the car do not act the same way, as you go out of a corner. Neither did I as I wanted to keep it relatively simple. You cannot really think of a car having two corners, it has four. So strictly speaking if you are turning just the slightest bit, the inside and the outside of the front and the rear are doing different things. Hence I cannot really, if I want to be accurate, claim that you just want to look at the front or the rear. But since you are asking, I guess you are ready, and the simplicity can be cast aside. If you are cornering the slightest bit, you have to look at the left front, right front, left rear and right rear as doing four different
things. It makes things a bit more complicated because now we have 4 variables and not two.

On top of that, I added to the confusion with my poor of checking what I had written. And you nailed me for it. A quite keen observation, which means that you are getting the hang of this damper thingie. And it is also a good thing, in the sense that I should not post rubbish. I will try to clear up the confusion and fix my error.

I got carried away in my own enthusiasm and mixed things up. So, my correction in post 2 is wrong. Doug's table, as you refer to, is right. At apex to exit it is less front rebound/more rear bump gives more understeer and more front rebound/less rear bump gives more oversteer.

However this does not change the fact, that it only considers the cars as bicycles, because it refers to two points and not four. On top of that, there is an error at "mid-corner transition" at more oversteer. See, the F bump + is posted twice? That IS wrong. It should be, F bump + and F rebound +. Now how can increasing both the front bump and the front rebound give the same result? That is because the left and the right front tyres are not doing the same thing. A car has 4 corners, not 2. The correct adjustment is: Inside front bump + and outside front rebound +.

Similarly, the above sentence "At apex to exit it is less front rebound/more rear bump gives more understeer and more front rebound/less rear bump gives more oversteer" should be "less OUTSIDE front rebound/more INSIDE rear bump gives more understeer and more front OUTSIDE rebound/less INSIDE rear bump gives more oversteer"

BUT! You can work with the INSIDE front and the OUTSIDE rear. It is just noticeably less effective. And then it would be "more INSIDE front rebound/less OUTSIDE rear bump gives more understeer and less front INSIDE rebound/more OUTSIDE rear bump gives more oversteer". This is what I mixed up. In my second post, what I wrote from a certain point of view IS true, but it is the least effective way to acheive the result you want to bring about. And the mix up happenend because of the way I do my setups.

I often use this more in my setup process, because I tend to hold one or two corners as the most important, and set the dampers for THEM with the MOST effective way. If I cannot adjust the other 10-15 corners and keep the adjustments intact for what I consider the most important corners, I invert the adjustment method and use the LESS effective way for the rest of the corners. Therefore in my routine, if often use the LESS effective way (10-15 corners), more than I use the MOST effective way (1-3 corners). That was what caught my mind, when I posted my correction. And of course, I should have stuck with the MOST effective way of doing things, when I try explain how things work.

Furthermore, my method of inverting the adjustments is a method I have not found anywhere else. I made it myself, and as such it IS to be considered slightly suspect. It seems to work for me, but as the above slipup shows, you have to keep your head very cool to do it. Therefore, I cannot recommend it as a way of learning how dampers should be adjusted. Stick with the MOST effective way, and when you are very confident with this, then if you feel like it, you can try an experiment with this little trick. And if it also works for you - great, then maybe my theory is correct. If it does not, it is more likely that it works for me, because I want to see things that way, and that in reality it is no effective at all.

So disregard my second post, and if you want a better table than Doug's, that works with the dampers for all four wheels then go here:

[users.castel.nl]

You might also want to take a look at the drawings of how different corners can be translated into the table, and when the 3 cornering phases kick in.

I hope I have cleared out any confusion. If there are more suspicious things in my posts, please do not hesitate to ask... Maybe you will be right once more :D

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Again Morbid Mange Tak skal du har :0))

I really wanna thank you for all the work you put into this, I hope I didn't completely destroy your working day :0))

Your posting clarified most of my questions, there is however one remaining (right now )))

taking a look at the table you gave us

[users.castel.nl]

we see that in the first three phases a very simple scheme is dominating... softening the front dampers is assumed to gives us more grip in the front and the same applies for the rear and the other way arround when stiffening a damper. This would fit the scheme you explained to us before.

But the last two cases are affected differently by damper settings ... Example

PHASE 5:
INCREASING THROTTLE +
APEX TO EXIT CORNER
OUTSIDE FRONT damper move
in REBOUND &
INSIDE REAR damper move in
BUMP

here it is suggested for more oversteering to soften
OUTSIDE FRONT REBOUND -

and/or to stiffen

INSIDE REAR BUMP +

meaning that stiffening the active inside rear bumber will also increase grip in the back?

I'm not doubting this is the case, but I wonder why. Is it because stiffening the rear bump will distribute the weight more effectively on both rear wheels? Or has it something to do with creating "overdamped" transients when straightening the car on the straight, killing all possible oscillations??

sorry about the curious me here ....

Good danish! Surprise, surprise! Where have you picked up danish, huh? It is almost perfect. It should have been: Morbid, mange tak skal du have. To captial letters in excess and a conjugation error. But the rest was as good as any dane could have done it.

Anyway, you have not ruined my workday at all. I love to type stuff like this, and as of today, I am on a 10 week vacation :D

Okay, lets get at it. I had to think there for a moment. But I think I got it now. The front bump in the sentece of mine that you refer to should be front rebound. I have done extra checkups on my text this time to make sure that no mistakes have crept in (I bet that there still are some there, but... ah what the heck, you will probably point them out if there is )

First of all, it is correct, that GENERALLY speaking softening the front dampers is assumed to gives us more grip in the front and the same applies for the rear and the other way arround when stiffening a damper.

It is also correct as you point from the scheme that, at first this holds true, but it kinda "flips" over for mid (4) and exit (5) phase:

key: inside/outside,front/rear,bump/rebound, so Inside Front Bump = IFB

Entry types:
type1: more understeer OFB+/IRR- & more oversteer OFB-/IRR+
type2: more understeer IFR+/ORB- & more oversteer IFR-/ORB+
type3: more understeer OFB+, IFR+/ORB-,IRR- & more oversteer OFB-,IFR-/ORB+, IRR+
-------------------
Phase 4 (mid corner): more understeer IFB-, OFR-/IRB+,ORR+ & more oversteer IFB+,IFR+/IRB-, IRR-
-------------------
Phase 5 (apex to exit): more understeer OFR-/IRB+ & more oversteer OFR+/IFB-

As you enter, you can only take one of the entry types. Then comes the midcorner and apex to exit. So a corner description is in 3 stages: Entry 1, 2 or 3, then mid, then apex-exit.

The most important thing to consider, and the key to understanding how this works, is to always keep in mind WHAT the car is doing WHEN.

Lets take the entrys first. Type 1 and 2 assumes that you are braking. That makes the car dive, and the front goes into bump, and the rear into rebound. As you are also turning, the outside is going into bump and the inside is going into rebound, because the car is leaning. Which of those are the most dominant are determined by how hard you are breaking.

Thus type 1 is more related to bump at front and rebound at rear, because it considers the diving as dominant. Likewise type 2 is more related to bump at the outside and rebound at the inside, because it considers the leaning motion as dominant. In type 3 you are not braking or pushing the throttle. The car is at constant speed, and so it neither squats nor dives, it only leans. A sideways motion is totally dominant as it is the only one that is present, and the leaning motion is increasing since you increase steer.

At the midcorner the lean is still present with no dive or squat. It is still totally a sideways motion, BUT you are decreasing steer. That means that the energy stored in the previous leaning motion is released, because the leaning motion is "rolling back", as it should do. So, if any spring contracted in the previous phase, it is now expanding. Likewise, if any spring expanded in the previous phase, it is now contracting. You can check that this is correct by refering to the chart. Type 3 in the inverted adjustment of type 4. If the outside front was in rebound, it is now in bump, and so on. If it rolls back once again, that is "lean out" at entry, "lean in" at mid, "lean out" at exit, it is overreacting. Also consider that any leaning/rolling and leaning/rolling back is aslo adjusted by roll-bars.

At exit to apex, you are pushing throttle and steer is considered to be almost nil. That means your car is squating, sending the front into rebound, and the rear into bump. That is considered dominant to any leaning motion. Therefore the front is adjusted with rebound, and which side is adjusted is determined by the "lean in", which is in the last gasps of the motion in phase 4. You can check this by the fact that phase 5 only considers rebound at front and bump and bump by the rear (the squat) and it copys the leaning adjustment from phase 4. OFR and IRB at phase 4 and 5 are the same, either + or - for the same effect.

So always consider, what is the car doing? Is it leaning, diving or squating? And which one is dominant? Then you know which type/phase you are in.

When any spring goes into bump - it contracts. The bump damper, depending on how stiff it is, takes some of this contraction and that energy is sent back out of the suspension system and into the tyre. The rest is stored in the spring. Now, if the damper is too soft, the car dives/squats/leans a lot. The spring stores the most of the energy rather than sending it to the tyre. The tyre is stressed less, and therefore it has more grip. So soft bump damper gives more grip. If that grip is placed at the front, you get more oversteer. If that grip is placed at the rear, you get more understeer. If the damper is too stiff the car doesn't really dive/squat/lean at all. So stiff bump damper sends most of the energy from the chassis motion into the tyre. The tyre overloads and loss of grip ensues. If that grip loss is placed at the front, you get more understeer. If that grip loss is placed at the rear, you get more oversteer.

When any spring goes into rebound - it expands. The rebound damper resists this expansion. If the rebound damper is too stiff it resists this motion too much, and the expansion never really takes place. The tyre lifts off the surface of the tarmac, and goes into the air. If the rebound damper is too soft, the spring just expands as much as it can, and if there is stored energy in the spring, it releases that energy by thrusting the tyre hard to the tarmac. The tyre overloads, because of this overreaction. The correct setting resists as suspension expands, but not so much that the tyre lifts, and neither does it allow excessive amounts of stored energy to be transmitted to the tyre. So the spring gradually expands and the tyre stays in perfect contact with the tarmac, not lift and not being overloaded. That is the trick with rebound.

So why does the flipover happen?

Well lets look at the exit phase. Rebound is dominant at the front, since we are squating, and we are in the dying gasps of the roll-back, so there is a very slight "lean back". Thus the front suspension is expanding from squat, and there is stored energy in the springs. The amount of energy the suspension will send to the front tyre can be descibed as "spring stiffness+stored energy". Not only does the damper resist the spring, it also has to resist the stored energy. Soften the damper, and the tyre gets thrusted harder to the tarmac, since more of the spring stiffness and stored energy gets through. Stiffen the damper, and it will resist more. That means less stored energy and spring stiffness gets through. The optimum setting clears the suspension of the stored energy, and lets the setting of the spring do the work. Since there is no such thing as the right spring setting for every corner on a track, you can adjust it with the damper. If the spring is too hard for that particular corner, you just add a bit more damper resistance. If the spring is too soft, you just soften the damper, so more stored energy gets through, which effectively works as a stiffer spring.

Now lets look at the entry area. I cannot cover them all so I chose type 1. For simplicity I will despense with the lean motion. You are braking hard. The car is diving, that means bump at the front. If you stiffen the bump, it resists the contraction motion. It sends the energy from braking back into the tyre. The stiffer the damper, the more energy goes to the front tyres, and the closer they get to overload. Overloaded front tyres lose grip, and grip loss at front gives understeer. If you soften the damper, it allows more contraction. More energy is stored in the springs, and you hence you move away from the point of overloading the front tyres. That translates into more grip at the front. More grip at the front is more oversteer.

Therefore: - Da-dam-daahhh - stiffening front bump at entry leads to more understeer, and stiffening front rebound at exit gives more oversteer. And something similar goes for the rear dampers.

So, remember:

1) that cars dive/squat and lean.
2) one of those motions is considered dominiant.
3) that rebound and bump do not have the same function.

and your paradox is solved. Also, any damper does only affect the spring it is attached to in a direct way. It can only influence other springs indirectly, by releasing excess energy, or by absorbing to little energy.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Oh, and just for the heck of it, here is a web page that discusses how to setups for REAL and not VIRTUAL race cars. You might find it interesting. I know I did, and I still visit it sometimes when my setup proces leads to a dead end, and I cannot figure out why. Enjoy:

[www.ozebiz.com.au]

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Well Morbid!!! Fantastic JOB!! Finally I'm starting to get the hang of it!! thanks once more!!

The energy storage and distribution scheme makes the whole thing even more interesting. Using this way of thinking I managed yesterday night to filter out some of the major problems I was having, strong under- and oversteering effects in the same curve, simply by thinking a little about energies, well and also by changing my driving style slightly :0))

I really enjoy this type of discussion Morbid, and I would love to see you and others contributing more to point out further useful relations between physics and effects, which can be verified in the simulator.

Graphics are cool, but learning something is cooler... :0))

You talked a little about your procedure optimizing your settings. What about, (if you have the time), giving us an insight into a more stepwise method of tuning. I know this is a heuristic thing difficult to handle, but still, maybe you have some useful hints for us? For example, which dampers do you usually set first? Do you have initial settings you like to start off with? Do you start with setting the faster or slower dampers? Most articles I've read suggest setting the slower first, I somehow feel it should be the other way arround. I mean for example, can it be sensible to compensate a very stiff slow damper by a very soft fast one ... How exactly do you find the best setting for the fast rebound dampers? And you know me, I would really appreciate getting a feeling for things, moving from the WHY part to the HOWTO part.

ps.
Sad about the red and white danish dynamite, I think you are missing "Schmeichel?", was that right?, as a goalkeeper :0))

Why, thank you... Its always nice to know that someone finds your efforts useful and helpful. Happy to be of service. and believe it or not, I am also learning, since know sorta what to do is very different from being able to express it in writing., We are both getting a better understand of WHY and HOW TO... :D

Yeah, we don't have Schmeichel anymore. He was a great goalie, some say that he was the No. 1 in the world in his golden age. But he was definately getting slow in his later years. So he retired. And it was the right choice I might add. Our new goalie is actually fantastic. If you saw the match against France, you would see how they bombarded our goal for the entire match. And nothing got through. Amazing stuff! The cameramen zoomed in on the french players faces and you could just see how they were numb with disbelief. Really a shame that he pulled a day of utter butterfingers when we played against England.

Anway back to dampers and setups. Great that your cars handling is improving. That is always a sure sign that you are doing something right. But remember that fast and slow dampers are very different things and serve very different purposes. They cannot really affect each other. Slow dampers handle the behaviour of the car while it is braking, accelerating and cornering, or any combination thereof. Fast dampers handle a sudden bump in the road or a sudden depression. Like if you ran over a dead cat. Then one spring would be affected and the others would not. The fast damper makes sure that the bump/depression doesn't rocket your tyre into the air, and places it firmly on the tarmac as soon as possible. I generally, and oddly really, stick with the 0/2, 0/2 setting that Doug recommends. The bumpier the tarmac, the softer fast dampers you want. The point of stiffening them is to increase handling response with the minimum loss of grip, and to adjust over/understeer in bumpy corners. I usually am satisifed with my handling response, so even if the tarmac is very smooth, I don't need to increase handling reponse. And I seem to have removed excessive sudden over/understeer in corners, probably because I love soft spring and ARB settings. Therefore is don't change them. Not that I am saying that you shouldn't. This is just what works for me. And of course, there are exceptions. I do sometimes raise stiffen fast dampers, or even remove them completely. But only when nothing else seems to work.

As to my procedure, yes I do have a standard setting with which I always start. I always change the damper settings as the very last thing. The point is, that damper settings, as you have recently found out, are extremely powerful tools to change handling characteristics. Therefore, if you adjust them to soon they can very effectively mask mistaken suspension settings. The best solution is to have a good chassis balance, and then you can adjust dampers. Sometimes though, you will need to readjust some settings slightly after the dampers are set. But, NEVER change springs and/or ARB after slow dampers are set. You run the risk of bad chassis balance masked by good damper settings. Changing springs or ARB means retuning the dampers.

My standard setting is something like this:

Gears: unchanged
Wings: Rear one notch below CC cars, front +3 to rear.
Brakes: 58,5 front - 42,5 rear
Ride height: 40mm front - 60mm rear
packers: 0
Springs: 1200 front - 900 rear
ARB: 2000 front - 150 rear
Dampers: as Doug suggests. Fast 0/2, 0/2. Slow 10/15, 07,12.
Diff: unchanged

The first thing I do is to load up 20 laps of fuel and a soft tyre. And then I simply practise. And I can do up to approx 100 laps before I do anything else. Then, when I have gotten very familiar with the track, and how my car handles, I start my procedure. I have described it elsewhere on this forum. I will provide a link shortly, just one word before I do. I mention a mathematical system for setting up dampers. It is still classified, since it is still under development. It has change since then, and now it serves the role of a general estimate, which I then fine tune by hand. When the system is finished, I might publish it here on these forums. But not yet.

Anyway, here is what I do, how I do it, and lotz of why. And there is even a funny story to boot. I just hope that you are not a die-hard Schumi fan. Enjoy!

[www.grandprix3.com]

As always, feel free to ask questions. There are no stupid questions when it comes to setups.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

wellowellowell .... picturing Morbid playing a helicopter in front of the computer brushing the walls with his 2m long hair (must have grown a little since your wrote the story) while waiting for the telemetry data to get downloaded .... finally figuring out (with his almost equally long chin hitting the desk in a heavy bump) he was driving a 2 wheel motorcycle rather than a car and it felt fantasticooo! .... what can it be? .... what can he be? .... is he really a human (such as he claims ehemm) .... if so he must be completely .... well .... maybe even an ex real-life driver? ... nahhh .... he couldn't have survived that .... no way .... he'd be dead .... a ghost .... "hvad for helvede, hvordan kunne han vide det!!" ...... ???? ..... who said that? ..... hello??? .... HELLO!!?

LOL Ronnie. But you've confused me!



'I reserve the right to contradict myself' - Richey Edwards, 1994.

LoL! I am also quite confused now.... How did you know? And how did you know how to say it in danish? Very??? and lotz of??? LoL!

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Hello? Or is it more like Hell-O?

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Less Hell and more O? Or is it the other way around? It would seem that there are greater mysteries now, than how to setup a race car...

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

I knew there was a sinister motive behind this whole thread, just couldnt translate your 'legitimate gp3' coding.



'I reserve the right to contradict myself' - Richey Edwards, 1994.

*evil grin* There is always a sinister motive when you are dealing with the dark side of the forum *evil grin*

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

"F.ex. how come increasing the rear bump will give you more oversteering when speeding up and exiting a corner? Somehow it doesn't make sense to me, I thought increasing the bump in the back will result in less traction and grip in the back?? Can anyone give me a hint here?"

That's actually what oversteer is less traction at the back