belini nurburgring 1999 to 2005 screenshots

How about putting black flags on the green kerbs outside the red and white. because none of the CC's use them that would slow you down quite a bit

Maybe But it wouldn't cost two seconds.

A little more testing to try and make some sense of things, I drove 2005 Imola as Massa and made a lap in FP of 1m 19.155s but HOFxLap shows BHP of 960 whereas the perf file claims BHP should be 923. Tried as Alonso and BHP is 970 against the perf's 933.

Is this HOFxLap getting confused with the physics? For whatever reason the output seems always to be +37 BHP against the performance file. This holds true in both qualifying and race sessions too.

Anyway, I will next test with a player grip reduction and see where I end up.

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The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. -- F.Scott Fitzgerald

It would cost more at Imola than most places, i save nearly a second alone at Variante Alta thanks to those green kerbs.
I hope you car power dependent checked.

Yes, car power team dependent is selected.

I suppose I could drive with throttle help on. Should lose me around 0.5s per lap, every little helps. (really shouldn't be trying to go slower - it's just not racing )

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The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. -- F.Scott Fitzgerald

Come on, Belini, release tougher versions for us aces Please please please

I want to struggle while trying to break the realistic pole time, and that's in the best car !
Or at least release another "rough guide" on how to fiddle magic data so we can achieve it ourselves (make us slower w/o reducing player's grip from the default 16384)

Would it be much trouble?

(really shouldn't be trying to go slower - it's just not racing)


Hehe, yeah, now we know how FIA feel like

St.Hubbins:
A little more testing to try and make some sense of things, I drove 2005 Imola as Massa and made a lap in FP of 1m 19.155s but HOFxLap shows BHP of 960 whereas the perf file claims BHP should be 923. Tried as Alonso and BHP is 970 against the perf's 933.


I believe it has to do with the power factor parameter, the desc53 in the magic data file.
A value of 500 would mean that the bhp value in the game will correspond to that of the perf file.
A higher or a lower value than that would increase ie. decrease the bhp value respectively.

And it affects all the cars in the same way, the AI's and the player's car.

Thanks Speedy guy, I understand now.

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The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. -- F.Scott Fitzgerald

St.Hubbins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, I just tried a basic test - Season physics,
> default grip, ie. not changed with the human grip
> util, Belini grip patch, Ace skill level, relevent
> perf file and track etc, keyboard control, track
> dependent setups....
>
> I ran a 60 minute qualy session with no players
> selected:
> Imola 2004, Pole - M. Schumacher 1m 19.184s
> Imola 2005, Pole - Alonso 1m 19.868s
>
> Then into free practice using the car that
> qualified on pole, my times after only 3 hotlaps
> on each track:
> Imola 2004, 1m 17.363
> Imola 2005, 1m 17.801
>
> Now, if I understand correctly I should adjust the
> player grip so that I am matching the cc pole
> time. But that is a long way to go, 1.8 - 2.0s. I
> can't help but feel that I will need to reduce the
> grip so much that cc's will kill me in the slower
> turns. I'd rather not adjust the cc grip as it is
> nice to have realistic(ish) laptimes.

is that with 12deg lock too, I just did a couple of laps at imola 2004 and
could only manage a 78.096, mind you I do have my ff cracked up full,
which makes those kerbs a handful, that's my excuse anyway

I think everyone's getting too hung up on the default 16384 figure as this
figure is only relative to the value of track grip and ai grip.

before I released the player grip util I used to hard patch the player grip
value @ 15360, driving with less grip isn't that noticeable you just get
a slight effect of understeer, and this is only really noticeable when driving
a minardi.

another thing I forgot to mention was cpu occupancy, this can also make a big
difference in lap times, in free practice I get peaks around 50% and this is
still a little too high once you get all the cars on tracks and realistic
weather.

you should find that the ai won't slaughter you in slow turns, you just won't
have an advantage that maybe you're used to, makes overtaking a lot harder.
also the whole point of the grip patch is so you can experience driving cars
that you're not going to win with, eventually it will all work with belini
gp3 career, but I've found a big error with the mid-season grip calculation
that's going to take some fixing

btw all the tracks should be setup for player grip using the 2001 version or
the alternate track versions mentioned in the grip calc sheet, as the magic
magic fine tune is set to zero the player grip that you arrive at will work
on all the relevant versions, v4 tracks only.

all I can say is try setting up a track for your level of play and then
pick a handful of chassis and do a few laps in each, the effect is quite
subtle even between team mates.

if you don't like it go back to what you're used to, but give it a chance.
it's a bit like when I was setting up the cockpit view, at first I really
hated it, but it transforms the experience and now I wouldn't even consider
going back to the original view.

have fun and let me know how you get on

pk





[www.belini.fsnet.co.uk]

Speed_Addict Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> St.Hubbins:
> A little more testing to try and make some sense
> of things, I drove 2005 Imola as Massa and made a
> lap in FP of 1m 19.155s but HOFxLap shows BHP of
> 960 whereas the perf file claims BHP should be
> 923. Tried as Alonso and BHP is 970 against the
> perf's 933.
>
>
> I believe it has to do with the power factor
> parameter, the desc53 in the magic data file.
> A value of 500 would mean that the bhp value in
> the game will correspond to that of the perf
> file.
> A higher or a lower value than that would increase
> ie. decrease the bhp value respectively.
>
> And it affects all the cars in the same way, the
> AI's and the player's car.

I don't think HOF will give the correct values because of the patching involved.
desc 53, is always variable as it's linked to the values of desc 45/46 and 47,


pk





[www.belini.fsnet.co.uk]

now look u lot, I'm not trying to take the role of the FIA, but it is a lot
easier to slow the player to the tracks rather than speed the up the AI.

1. all the tracks have the correct lap times etc so messing with the ai you'll
have to go and alter the magic.

2. as stated before I can't make th AI go much faster anyway maybe 0.3sec max

I've set up the tracks with these settings which conform to the capabilities
of the AI

throttle help on
default lock 12deg
default setups
and I also have a po lower than 50%





[www.belini.fsnet.co.uk]

If you are too fast cant you just improve the ai grip and correct the laptime with timing finetune value. That should work

I have a question about hotlaps. In another thread you said if you save youre hotlaps as a race you can watch them. How does this work? Could you explain a litlebit more. Thanks

Youre tracks are incredible and Im always looking forward to the next release.

Thanks Belini for your continued information and support. Just to let you know, I am using 12 degree max lock, although I must say that driving with a keyboard I have never noticed a difference with this setting from the lowest 8deg to the highest 20deg.

Anyway, I think I just have to find the settings required for my own ability and then I will at least be able to race competitively. Fear not, thy shalt not give up

Incidentally, I tried a 50% Quickrace, still playing on Imola, with player grip set to 15384 and my overall pace was just about perfect (still about 0.8 faster than I should be in qualy - have the 2005 physics been set in a way so that cc's qualy pace is taking a heavy fuel load into consideration, as in real life?). However, I am still far too strong on the brakes compared to cc's. Is there a way to edit only the braking force of human players?

Oh, and yes, my PO is about the same as yours - 40-50% on my own 80-100% in race conditions. No doubt it would be a fair bit higher at a wet Interlagos or Monaco, so perhaps I would have to reduce the screen res to 800x600 at that point. Still, this is the least of my worries right now.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. -- F.Scott Fitzgerald

St.Hubbins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Belini for your continued information and
> support. Just to let you know, I am using 12
> degree max lock, although I must say that driving
> with a keyboard I have never noticed a difference
> with this setting from the lowest 8deg to the
> highest 20deg.
>

my pleasure

> Anyway, I think I just have to find the settings
> required for my own ability and then I will at
> least be able to race competitively. Fear not, thy
> shalt not give up
>

excellent

I'd appreciate it if you could check the 2001 version of imola just to see
if you have a similar advantage, it maybe that as the seasons progress
adjusting the track grip rather than fine tune would be a better option.


> Incidentally, I tried a 50% Quickrace, still
> playing on Imola, with player grip set to 15384
> and my overall pace was just about perfect (still
> about 0.8 faster than I should be in qualy - have
> the 2005 physics been set in a way so that cc's
> qualy pace is taking a heavy fuel load into
> consideration, as in real life?). However, I am
> still far too strong on the brakes compared to
> cc's. Is there a way to edit only the braking
> force of human players?
>

the quali pace is adjusted to around what it should be for a one lap run,
maybe increasing the braking force as the seasons progress is a bad idea
and favours the player more, most of the time I only test the 2001 tracks,
you could try using the default braking force 5632. even though I'm rubbish
with the keys it is noticable compared to the wheel that keys are a lot more
stable under heavy braking.


apart from increasing the braking force all the physics do is increase the
drag. I know it's yet another comprimise but you could try pushing the brake
balance forward it's set at 43/57 for imola.



> Oh, and yes, my PO is about the same as yours -
> 40-50% on my own 80-100% in race conditions. No
> doubt it would be a fair bit higher at a wet
> Interlagos or Monaco, so perhaps I would have to
> reduce the screen res to 800x600 at that point.
> Still, this is the least of my worries right now.

I find with my machine that the po hardly varies between resolutions so I run
@ 1280, 25fps.

there is a hack you could try you'll need a hex editor and of course you'll
have to fine tune the lap time back down, this should alter AI grip only, I've
never tested increasing it, but reducing it screws the AI.

in the gp32k.exe @ address 166E74 you'll find 0040 which is the default 16384, if you try it let me know how the AI behaves.

pk





[www.belini.fsnet.co.uk]

wvdriel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are too fast cant you just improve the ai
> grip and correct the laptime with timing finetune
> value. That should work
>
> I have a question about hotlaps. In another thread
> you said if you save youre hotlaps as a race you
> can watch them. How does this work? Could you
> explain a litlebit more. Thanks
>
> Youre tracks are incredible and Im always looking
> forward to the next release.
>
>

laptime/timing fine tune increases the lap time for both player and AI,
the downside with the grip patch is that the value that used to only alter
the AI grip now alters the player grip too as the players grip values
are taken from the perf file. the only value that directly has an effect
on AI grip is desc 51/52 and there's not much gain to be had altering those.





[www.belini.fsnet.co.uk]

belini:
think everyone's getting too hung up on the default 16384 figure as this
figure is only relative to the value of track grip and ai grip.

before I released the player grip util I used to hard patch the player grip
value @ 15360, driving with less grip isn't that noticeable you just get
a slight effect of understeer, and this is only really noticeable when driving
a minardi.

I wasn't aware that there were different levels of grip for different cars??

Anyway, driving with less grip is very noticeable, especially in fast chicanes, like Imola or Nurburgring; six out of ten times I'll lose the car there cause it bumps real hard off the kerbs.
I know I'm constantly asking for more challenging driving on belini tracks regarding lap times, but in my experience reducing the player's grip takes much of the joy out of racing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2005 11:12PM by Speed_Addict.

"I wasn't aware that there were different levels of grip for different cars?? "

That one had me confused too.

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The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. -- F.Scott Fitzgerald

doh!!!!!!!

> I wasn't aware that there were different levels of
> grip for different cars??
>


I sometimes wonder why I bother to write info text files, that's the whole
point of the grip patch, it gives the game a completly new challenge.


> Anyway, driving with less grip is very noticeable,
> especially in fast chicanes, like Imola or
> Nurburgring; six out of ten times I'll lose the
> car there cause it bumps real hard off the kerbs.
> I know I'm constantly asking for more challenging
> driving on belini tracks regarding lap times, but
> in my experience reducing the player's grip takes
> much of the joy out of racing.
>

join the club, you're not meant to just drive through the imola chicane
as if it wasn't there. the imola chicane is a challenge in real life,
every years there's someone in the wall, even schue has had his moments.

I'm not hear to spoil the fun, for me the grip patch was everything I'd
been looking for that was missing in the game, there was even talk of this
being implemented in gp4, I seem to remember a quote saying "that it could
be easily done", well maybe for the developers but it took me 4 years to
find.

for me anyway, after 15 years of gpx it's brought the game back to life.
especially wet races where the ai are now very competitive, you'll also find
the ai are more competitive with full tanks @ 100% race distances.

the v4 tracks magic should work without the grip patch, maybe you should do
that.

pk





[www.belini.fsnet.co.uk]

You're not spoiling the fun, GP3 is now 10 times the fun it was before you stormed in with your great utils and beautiful tracks.

But can you help me with this one please - if i wish to play multiplayer, and i set the player's grip to 15360, what will happen to the car's grip when the computer takes over the control? Does it read the value from from the perf file?

Also, how do I set the player's grip to 15360 for all tracks without using the Player Grip patch. It's the perf file again, right?

Speed_Addict Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> But can you help me with this one please - if i
> wish to play multiplayer, and i set the player's
> grip to 15360, what will happen to the car's grip
> when the computer takes over the control? Does it
> read the value from from the perf file?
>
> Also, how do I set the player's grip to 15360 for
> all tracks without using the Player Grip patch.
> It's the perf file again, right?

there's several layers of grip in gp3.

ai grip 1 = perf file
ai grip 2 = 16384
player grip 1 = 16384
player grip 2 = 16384

without the grip patch the player always has 16384 (grip 1) @ 16384 (grip 2).

with the grip patch the players car (grip 1) is taken from the perf file
and grip 2 is patched with the player grip util.

for example driving prost 2001 with a player grip of 15360 you'll have
grip as follows:

alesi grip 1 = 15611 (perf file)
player grip 2 = 15360

burti grip 1 = 14764 (perf file)
player grip 2 = 15360


as long as car power dependant is enabled, the car you're not driving will have grip as follows

alesi grip 1 = 15611 (perf file)
ai grip 2 = 16384

burti grip 1 = 14764 (perf file)
ai grip 2 = 16384

the grip you patch with the util 15360 (player grip 2) is the equivalent of
ai grip 2 (16384), bringing your performance in line with the ai, so if you've set up
the track properly any car you drive should perform similar to it's usual grid slot.

when I first tested all this I thought it maybe fun to drive minardi, by lap 21
I was lapped at melbourne, depressing!!! yet if I was in a ferrari I would be
the one doing the lapping.

what's also great about the grip util is that players of different levels of
skill can race against each other in multiplay, so for example you patch your grip
@ 15360 and your opponents not as quick and patches thier game @ 16000,
as long as you save the game between change overs, you can email it off to your
opponent who will be able to compete at the same level as you using there grip
level, there's no way of cheating as the game wil only replay properly with the
grip settings used in the previous turn, opens up a lot of possibilities.


have fun





[www.belini.fsnet.co.uk]