Another Question (as usual - sorry :D)

Traction control makes such a difference and makes driving so much easier O_o

I see most people tend to use setups that have a slightly loose(oversteery) nature. Anyone who has driven a front wheel drive/family car at it's limits will know that understeer is no good to anybody.
There is ONLY two advantages to having understeer; the car won't overbalance; and you know exactly where the car will go. Both of these advantages cause more severe disadvantages; the car won't be able to turn away from trouble, and you can see exactly what you're going to hit, and can't do a thing about it.
Acute oversteer can be just as bad, but no car is engineered to be as bad with oversteer, as those with understeer.
You can probably tell i don't like understeer. (and i drive a front wheel drive).

Getting a good race balance in a F1 car can be very difficult indeed. A heavy car with a full tank of fuel will understeer a lot more than an empty car with the same setup. A setup that takes this into account is necessary.

I set my car for a neutral-ish balance with plenty of fuel, which goes quite loose around mid fuel run. As the tyres wear, this balances out a bit more to a slightly-loose-neutral sort of thing.

I would never be able to drive this setup without my force feedback steering wheel though (i've tried).
So setup is not only dependant on driving style, but also on control method.

I just read the full quote. That seems a time consuming way to setup a car. Do a couple of laps, change 1 or 2 things, then do a couple more laps. You'd run out of practice time at each race meeting pretty quickly i'd imagine.

I assume that's only part of the sunspension part of the story. There's no mention of dampers/rubbers/ride height/ant-roll bars and how these affect not only the spring's reactions, but how the car handles the spring's reactions.

Personally, i find springs far less important than dampers, as these control the spring. They also control weight distribution under cornering load.
Soft springs don't necessarily make a car slower either.

I setup a car in this order:
1. Wings
2. Gears
3. Springs
4. Dampers
5. Ride height/bump rubbers
6. Brake balance
7. Anti-roll bars
8. Diff

Although that is not necessarily the order of importance.
I try to keep my springs nice and tight as this increases turning response speed and also allows the car to run lower to the ground.

Also, a slightly oversteery balance in the wet can not only be particularly interesting to drive, it can be very fast if you can handle it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2004 05:33PM by Scottyj.

You are right, no mention of the other aspects of the car setup. But the reason I posted this quote was purely because it came from a person that generally kicks the arse of anyone he races against. In my book it therefore stands to reason that such advice must be listened to.

Fot those who care to try and delve deeper into the intracacies of setting up a car, take a look at the following link where there is some invaluable advice...

[www.van-den-hoogen.nl]

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The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. -- F.Scott Fitzgerald

Scuse me for jumpin in like that but I've just a quick question... That post where Fernando Rees' cited:
I'll try to write something about digital differencials later, it's interesting because I am sure that many of the keyboarders use the "standard" 10/10,9/1 differencial because it just suits good...
Those numbers -did he mean what he wrote or did he mean 10/10,9/10 (so not "one",but "ten"?
THX

He meant 10/10, 9/1.

It's a pretty standard setting for keyboarders in GP3 2000 as he mentioned. Mainly just a quick way around getting a reasonable setting without experimenting. We keyboarders are lazy you see.

10/10, 9/10 would be impossible with digital controls.

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The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. -- F.Scott Fitzgerald

Well I be damned... I've never heard of that little trick! And I'm a lazy keyboarder too you know
Up until now I've been using GPGamer's great setups and was extremely satisfied with them, but now as I set those little differential values to that mentioned above...Half a second quicker right away, even more on some tracks! Amazing. And the car handling feels much better too, smoother, not nearly as twitchy as before.

10/10 9/1 is good enough for me. I think I won't be spending any time trying to squeeze out something more



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2004 03:49AM by Speed_Addict.

Sadly Fernando never wrote a floow up as he promised. But while 10/10, 9/1 will give a decent feel, in many circumstances better turn in would be required, so perhaps a decelleration setting of 6/0 would be more appropriate. Much like the springs mentioned earlier the steadiest setup isn't always the fastest.

I have just started testing at Spa and the 9/1 setting is a waste of time. Of the top of my head I think I settled for something lile 8/8, 10/4. If I were to reduce the rear wing then the chances are that this setting would also need altering - another case of needing to find a balance between various aspects of the setup.

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The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. -- F.Scott Fitzgerald

I agree with ScottyJ's order of setting up a car, although I've always always adjusted springs and anti-roll bars in conjunction to avoid going to extremes with either. I generally like soft springs so I can use less wing (or get tons of grip on the slowest circuits) but without making the car feel like a boat. I've always neglected adjusting the dampers so I'll have to give it a try.
I too prefer oversteer but I think it's just because it's fun. The fastest car is one that is perfectly balanced. Anyone who's managed that, let me know!

theShadow -

Around a place like monaco, a soft setup could work quite well i spose. I tend to go hard to keep the handling nice and quick, especially for the chicane after the tunnel.

I never used to worry about the dampers either. I dont remember fiddling with them at all in gp2.
The slow bump/rebound settings of the dampers are the key to winning at the higher levels. Once you get these sussed out, i guarantee you'll be atleast half a second faster anywhere. Most likely more.

I find that a oversteery sort of balance is more predictable than an understeery one. Sounds weird, but it works. You get to know how the car will react on turn in with the confidence that it WILL turn. The key is to not let it drive you.

As for the comment about a perfectly balanced setup - it can be done. But it only lasts for a couple of laps at best.
There's so many variables affecting the handling of the car all the time that no single setup can account for everything. Fuel burns down, tyres wear, different driving lines etc.
If you get a neutral setup that lasts, then your cheating...