Round 7 - Montrunreal

mitadumapaga Wrote:
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> this race proves to me exactly what I have always
> thought. drivers like mansell, senna, hamilton,
> montoya and many others, have been quoted as
> faster than their team mates, t an extent because
> of their setups.
>
> the way i see it is that they are just willing to
> make a setup which will carry higher risks, but
> make you that bit faster. as we saw, hamilton's
> advantage today was all under breaking. he had
> such an advantage under breaking that we could
> just see it on tv. Such an advantage, that even
> the race engineer of nico told him that their
> break-bbalances are different. and the result for
> both mercs proves that.


First of all I don't know why Senna is in your comparison. Anyone that followed this driver knows that his greatness was far beyond just a clever set-up on his car. The second is, Mercedes were not the only team that had brake problems several teams complained about brakes all through the week-end. As for the incident concerning the two Mercedes, that's part of what makes the sport interesting drivers driving hard against one and other whether it's your team mate or not. The fact that they had a similar problem at the same time is no doubt bizarre but exciting for the spectators and God knows we could all use some excitement.
Using different set-sup's or more to the point different break biased is something utilized by all teams it just did not work for Mercedes today.


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group

Delighted for Ricciardo's win. With the possible exception of Rubens, I can't ever remember such a nice guy driving in F1, nevermind winning.
This makes me smile right back at him. :D

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Great race! once of the best for a while, just like Bahrain.

Chilton being arrogant and not handling himself well out of the car, very clearly his fault.
Bad race for Sauber (again) and also Renault.
Hamilton unlucky, as was Rosberg really. Lewis was sickly sweet after the race and has clearly had a dressing down from Lauda.
Regarding the accident... wow. That was always going to happen it reminded me of the crash between Maldonado, Sutil and Petrov a few years ago at Monaco, just this time the speeds and stakes were higher! Vettel was so lucky not to get taken out.

So notable performances today;

Ricciardo, first win for a Cheshire Cat. Capitalised brilliantly on a small slice of luck but made the rest happen.

Rosberg, well he looked a bit rattled at times, but he so very nearly brought a handicapped car home in first place, this is a result which could prove critical in the final reckoning.

Vettel, notable for producing the kind of assured drive we're all used to seeing from him, only dimmed by the shine of Ricciardo's grin.

Perez used his old tyre life management trick to put himself in with a shot of taking a win from the wounded Mercs.

Button, points by stealth.

Massa, the guy seems to have inherited Johnny Herbert levels of poor luck, but it was dammed good go all the same.

Chilton, for bringing himself and Maurussia down to earth in one of the biggest ways possible.

Very enjoyable race, the tension almost unbearable, speaking a Williams fan it's a shame to still see those last few little details derailing the results and the car still loosing out heavily in rear traction/downforce. But there's hope.

Glad to see Massa and Perez are (probably) ok, and hope the marshals keep safe in the clean up.

Oh my god the amount of bombshells through the roof during this race. After the Mercs started having troubles, everything went crazy. Montreal doesn't see many boring races.

Feel really bad for Perez and Massa, both having extremely great race, and then both of them ends in the wall. Luckily neither one wasn't hurt. And also Marussias, after great result in Monaco, now both crashing in first lap.

I bet Hamilton is quite angry right now . 2 DNF's and lots of points to catch. Bad luck for him that he had to retire and Rosberg managed to keep going with same problem.

And Williams has shown their tactical skills again by pretty much destroying Bottas's race. Me being a Finn I was really looking forward to him being even at the podium but instead 7th position. Of course that brake lock up right after the pitstop was his fault and made matters even worse, but I still blame Williams for failing his race.

J i m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So notable performances today;
>
> Ricciardo, first win for a Cheshire Cat.
> Capitalised brilliantly on a small slice of luck
> but made the rest happen.
>
> Rosberg, well he looked a bit rattled at times,
> but he so very nearly brought a handicapped car
> home in first place, this is a result which could
> prove critical in the final reckoning.
>
> Vettel, notable for producing the kind of assured
> drive we're all used to seeing from him, only
> dimmed by the shine of Ricciardo's grin.
>
> Perez used his old tyre life management trick to
> put himself in with a shot of taking a win from
> the wounded Mercs.
>
> Button, points by stealth.
>
> Massa, the guy seems to have inherited Johnny
> Herbert levels of poor luck, but it was dammed
> good go all the same.
>
> Chilton, for bringing himself and Maurussia down
> to earth in one of the biggest ways possible.
>
> Very enjoyable race, the tension almost
> unbearable, speaking a Williams fan it's a shame
> to still see those last few little details
> derailing the results and the car still loosing
> out heavily in rear traction/downforce. But
> there's hope.
>
> Glad to see Massa and Perez are (probably) ok, and
> hope the marshals keep safe in the clean up.

+1


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group

Ooofffhhhh, that was some race. Incredible stuff.

Montreal sure has a knack for producing excellent racing.

Chuffed for Dan. I think he has everything there to do a Seb in the future. Cracking, so pleased.

Jim, confirmation from the FIA just landed in me inbox, both Perez and Massa discharged from hospital, all clear.

Big old accident, Smedley said it was 27Gs on Massa's car.

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Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

SupraRacing55 Wrote:
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> And Williams has shown their tactical skills again
> by pretty much destroying Bottas's race. Me being
> a Finn I was really looking forward to him being
> even at the podium but instead 7th position. Of
> course that brake lock up right after the pitstop
> was his fault and made matters even worse, but I
> still blame Williams for failing his race.


To be honest I think the over heating issues played a larger part in spoiling Bottas' race, not the strategy, whilst I would agree that the Williams strategy is not getting the rub of the green at the moment it isn't the biggest issue getting in the way of that break through big result.

To achieve the best result, everything has to go perfectly, all the elements have to come together. It's about attention to detail.

For me three things spoilt Williams' chances today;
1) the safety car period kept the filed bunched up and hence the field was more tightly bunched up during the first round of pit-stops
2) an pit-stop problem cost Massa time and positions
3) the car still lacks rear downforce/traction which makes it harder to overtake, especially when multiple cars are grouped in the DRS zones

The opening safety car period helped Force India really capitalise on their tyre life advantage, and it gave them some track position benefit around the pit-stop windows.

We could argue that, Massa would have won had he stayed out and kept to the one stop. But those tyres were old by then and his pace was already dropping off, he would have been vulnerable at the end. At the time pitting for tyres was the logical thing to do because it then gave him a pace advantage and a chance to combine fresh tyres with straight-line speed to aid overtaking.

Yes the rear grip issue with Williams was seen quite clearly in the race.

When Massa was chasing Vettel he was always right behind Vettel when approaching the hairpin, but at the exit car started sliding all around and clear gap emerged between Massa and Vettel blewing all the chances of overtaking at the straight.

And about Bottas, I do agree the pitstop wasn't the only thing that blew his race, with locking the wheel under braking he seemed to be in big trouble because of that at the end so even with proper strategy he could've not achieved podium today, but atleast 5th maybe even 4th position I think.

I didn't know Williams was also having so bad overheating issues that it could hurt their race. Although it seems pretty much every team suffered from overheating this race, some more, some less.

SupraRacing55 Wrote:
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> I bet Hamilton is quite angry right now . 2
> DNF's and lots of points to catch. Bad luck for
> him that he had to retire and Rosberg managed to
> keep going with same problem.

It's still so close though, Lewis is still less than 25 points behind with over half the season left, one breakdown from Nico and strong weekend by Lewis would turn it round.
Nico does seem to be a specialist at mechanical sympathy though, and his drive today was just the kind of performance that wins titles.

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Merc have said both drivers were managing the brake problems but lewis brakes over heated in the final pit stop, there was nothing he could do. Lewis was not over driving the car and it was nico locking brakes running wide and making errors.

Lewis was the faster driver of the two in the race and I think 100% would have beat nico had the cars not gone wrong.

I bet in the next race merc will raise the shut down temp limit to stop the same problem happening again.

I am also thinking if nico does not get a dnf then there is little hope lewis can catch him.

Quote
marcl
Merc have said both drivers were managing the brake problems but lewis brakes over heated in the final pit stop, there was nothing he could do. Lewis was not over driving the car and it was nico locking brakes running wide and making errors.

Hamilton started taking half a second a lap out of Rosberg - to me that says Rosberg started having problems before Hamilton. They'd been pretty much identical before that (Hamilton getting no closer than around 7 tenths).

All said, I thought Rosberg did brilliantly to adapt to driving a car down lots and lots of horse power. Perez was gaining a second on the back straight on every lap.

Quote
EC83
By the way(And if I'm wrong here someone can correct me), as far as I can see no team has ever scored more than 5 consecutive 1-2 finishes in F1 history.
So a record might get broken tomorrow.

Murray! You can use a computer! :D



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2014 08:24AM by gav.

5 place grid penalty for Perez, cause like I thought I saw, he moved to the left in the breaking zone.

This was exactly a race what I wanted to see! Well, not exactly, was kinda furious yesterday when Massa and Perez crashed, cause it was really unnecessary. But **** happens, so...

Also it's kinda interesting to note that once Merc gets a problem, which team takes it? Red Bull. Not Force India or Williams, who both had the chance, Red Bull. For me they are team No. 2 as of this race. Even if Williams may have won that race with Massa, they didn't, Ricciardo did. So Red Bull is a big winner here, as well as Ricciardo.
Seen Vettels' reaction to his teammate winning? I had been expecting to not be that happy for him but I couldn't see any bad mood here. He has to be unlucky with that result though. It should have been him standing on top, first GP where he could push the car hard. P3 in the Grid was the result, P3 in the race. So for me Vettel is one of the losers emerging out of Montreal but at the same time should be a winner, because of how he congratulated his teammate.
Also Rosberg, that was an extremely important race for the championship. He had the problems and still managed to bring the car to P2. Hamilton DNF. No chance for Hamilton, still that guy has lost big. Will be hard for him to catch Rosberg.

Also, watch McLaren's results. Button 4th, Magnussen 9th, best non-works-Mercedes. Result is unrealistic but they brought their cars home in contrast to Massa and Perez. Still they have won here as well, have to improve on their pace though.

Big winner: F1, again. (Even if problems of the 2 cars normally pacing 3secs per lap faster caused this) the race was awesome. Seeing 5 cars race to the finish (or rather the Safety Car) is pure awesomeness. Was one, if not the, most thrilling race of modern F1.
Just one thing to Bahrain: I may be the only one with this view but I didn't see Bahrain as such a great race. It was mainly a demonstration of Mercedes strength, 24+ seconds gap to the rest of the field after some 10ish laps is too big of a gap. Even if there were fights all over the place, for me it wasn't as exciting because they had 2 cars, the teammates, battle for the position, Mercedes going away while battling each other. The exception being the last few laps because of the Safety Car. Not exactly what I want to see, I'd rather see different cars battle each other. That's why Canada was so awesome this year.

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Merc have said both drivers were managing the
> brake problems but lewis brakes over heated in the
> final pit stop, there was nothing he could do.
> Lewis was not over driving the car and it was nico
> locking brakes running wide and making errors.
> Hamilton started taking half a second a lap out of
> Rosberg - to me that says Rosberg started having
> problems before Hamilton. They'd been pretty much
> identical before that (Hamilton getting no closer
> than around 7 tenths).
>
> All said, I thought Rosberg did brilliantly to
> adapt to driving a car down lots and lots of horse
> power. Perez was gaining a second on the back
> straight on every lap.
>
>
>
>
> By the way(And if I'm wrong here someone can
> correct me), as far as I can see no team has ever
> scored more than 5 consecutive 1-2 finishes in F1
> history.
> So a record might get broken tomorrow.
>
> Murray! You can use a computer! :D

Merc have said it was lewis that started having the problem first, his started at the hairpin and Nico the 1st corner on the next lap.

Lewis was just better on the soft tyres and nico on the super soft. Once the softs went on Lewis was faster and closed the gap.

Nico drove a brilliant race to keep ahead as long as he did. Just shows that the merc is a good car round corners and its not all about the power.

I thought Massa totally blew that top 3 finish all on his own. Yet again he showed lack of race craft, it should have been an easy pass on Vettel yet he was the one making errors on new tyres and not the guys on worn tyres.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2014 09:47AM by marcl.

I thought Rosberg was a bit on the harsh side at turn 1 - the move had a lot of lunge to it, and left Hamilton with only 2 choices - crash or move. Still, Hamilton did that to him a couple of times at Bahrain, so I guess he can't complain about it. The race had an awful lot of pressure in it - more so than usual after Monaco - and I thought Hamilton had the edge on Rosberg around the pitstops - Rosberg was undoubtedly making small mistakes and Hamilton was catching, but Hamilton was locking up a lot at that point too. It was a shame, as it was just hotting up (pun not intended) when they started to break. I still struggle to understand quite how Rosberg made it to the flag with his brakes, nevermind nearly winning the thing - a quite superb 2nd half of the race from him.

Massa couldn't have made it to the end - their traction isn't good enough and the Williams isn't kind enough on its tyres, and combined, he'd have been way off the pace at the end - the only saving grace might have been Rosberg's lack of pace to overtake, but then Perez might have been backed up enough to attack Rosberg, or the Red Bulls attack Perez and Rosberg, so who knows how it could have panned out - it wouldn't have been pretty anyway!

Regarding the big accident, Perez undoubtedly moved left, but he sounded like he had concerns over his brakes fading, so with Vettel just ahead of him, perhaps he felt he had to leave space should it look like he would be about to smash into the back of Vettel? I felt the penalty might have been a touch harsh, but then changing direction in the braking zone with a car close behind is a big no-no, so I've no complaints. Apparently 27G for Massa and 36G for Perez. Ouch. Vettel did a stunning job of sensing Massa was about to torpedo him. Such a shame after Perez's great race and Massa's superb comeback from that dodgy pitstop. Big shame Perez's DRS failed, as with it, you have to think he would have won that race comfortably.

Max oh Max. Fair enough it looked like he was caught out by Bianchi making the corner, hence Chilton's lurid slide into him, but have the good grace to come out and say you @#$%& up. Don't just sit there complaining that Bianchi out-braked himself, when clearly all he did was outbrake you, then proceed to drive around the outside of you. I've been more impressed with Chilton this year, but he clearly doesn't have much in the way of practice when it comes to interviews while the race is ongoing.

Quote
marcl
Merc have said it was lewis that started having the problem first, his started at the hairpin and Nico the 1st corner on the next lap.

The KERS or the brakes? Clearly his brakes went at the hairpin, but I don't know about the KERS.

Yes the kers went at the hairpin as well.

In the interview after the race they said it was in a few corners of each other but Lewis lost power first then Nico. It was the Paddy interview and this was confirmed later as well.

Number of stories going round that Kimi is about to be dropped.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2014 10:26AM by marcl.

Those rumors about Kimi getting dropped weren't true. The guy who started that said that himself.

if there is one thing massa is to blame, it is the racing lines he took when trying to overtaking perez and vettel. I mean, massa tried atl least 3 times on vetel and always on the out side. Fair enough if vettel didnt levae hi space on the inside, but at least on one occasion massa could put his nose inside, yet he didint.