GTP v1.1 finally out :)

But Matt, whats your point? They gave us a nice game to play (well a series of nice games) and we paid there wages. Well when i say we i mean the people who werent to cheap to actually buy the games. Papyrus may have made the best sims, but look at what we have now! LFS, NetKar Pro, Richard Burns Rally, GTR, rFactor! Simply saying they have produced great games in the past doesnt change what they are doing now.

Wait a min, Papyrus are the ones who have encourage modding since the days of Incycar Racing :| and I presume that FIRST are basically Papyrus, Vivendi who bought everything from Papy when they went bump, still hold the main rights to N2003, but FIRST have bought the source code...

Pretty much yeah. Vivendi owned Sierra (They also own a tonne of other stuff) and Papyrus were a development group for them. Papyrus died, Vivendi owned the rights to NR2003 and the source code. Papyrus formed PWF, there very own mod group. As a mod group they "hacked" (there words, not mine) NR2003 and released patches and editors. John Henry (Red Sox owner), bought the source to NR2003 from Vivendi and "gave" it to PWF. Together they formed FIRST Racing.

Recently they started clamping down on mods. Claiming that modfying the exe is illegal because of the EULA. The EULA doesnt mention the exe, it says you cant modify the game. If this is the case then FIRST better start taking legal action agaisnt themselves for the creating of there tracks and mods when they did not own the source code, or rights to the game. They also still dont own the rights to NR2003, only the source code, so should it be Vivendi that is throwing legal threats about?

And they are clamping down on editors for the game - well where does Sandbox fit in? Thats the very same program thats been used since NASCAR 4 to create tracks for the series by Papyrus themselves!

FIRST have done EXACTLY what others are doing for the game whilst they were under the name PWF. Now they dont like it

We could also get onto the subject of how all PWFs GPL layout tracks are apparently "stolen" from the David Noonan convertor and no permission was granted for this modding either?

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so should it be Vivendi that is throwing legal threats about

Thats basically what I think is going on, but Vivendi is pressuring FIRST, making them look like the bad guys.... that makes it even more strange, why would they go modding with these PWF people, why would they hack their own software :S also even tho saying nothing about the exe, the EXE is still part of the game :P but still your point stands about tracks etc :| Nothing about this makes sense at all lol


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam

theers a difference between making a track/car for a game and editing teh exe.


if your making a track or a car its all your own work, your not editing what they've got in game. with editing teh exe you're altering there work, and this is what seems to be teh problem, as to then use this chnaged exe the exe must be distributed, which could allow people without NR2k3 to run the game.

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

oh i missed that bit where they said first was papyrus whoops

meah well, still i stick to the point that all penguins shiver

theers a difference between making a track/car for a game and editing teh exe.


have to disagree there, dosn't matter weather you change a sound, add a texture, change a texture, reprogram a code, change a shape or add to a shape... Ultimatly it all boils down to 1 thing, modifying, you have modified the game from its original state, and thats whats classed as illegal....


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam

if your making a track or a car its all your own work, your not editing what they've got in game. with editing teh exe you're altering there work, and this is what seems to be teh problem, as to then use this chnaged exe the exe must be distributed, which could allow people without NR2k3 to run the game.

Making a track does change what you have in the game, it also uses parts from the game such as textures and 3D objects which are shared (such as the tarmac textures, which there is only 4 or 5 of, or the flagman which there is one of). There are many exe's which are edited (such as the GT physics, the GTS physics and the now dead GNS 1970 physics) which would still require you to have the NR2003 CD.

According to the EULA there is no difference between track editing and exe editing. It doesnt give specifics and simply talks about the game as a whole.

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Its exacly the same in a game called "Freelancer" this is a game with great potential! but damn Microsoft have gone over who built it (Digital Anvil) and basically clamped down big time on modding it.... now with a bit off source code editing that game could be made fantastic! but Microsoft are the biggest bunch of wankers when it comes too modding :P

I wonder tho what it would be like if something like that did go to court? because really the defence can just say they are trying to improve the game to increase sales for the company....


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam

Yeah, how many bought NR2003 for the NASCAR? How many GPL Sales of the last 3-4 years were to be used with the default graphics?

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Guess this is the best thread for it...

Quote

FIRST-RACING.NET REACHES AGREEMENT TO PROTECT ITS SOFTWARE CODE AND PREVENT FUTURE MODIFICATIONS THAT VIOLATE COPYRIGHT LAW

Company Developing Racing Simulations based on NASCAR© 2003 Prepares to Launch Great New Racing Challenges for Sim Racing Community

BOSTON, MASS. (May 3, 2005) - FIRST-Racing.net, a small company designing a sophisticated new simulation for auto racing enthusiasts, today announced that it had reached a legally-binding settlement of its lawsuit filed in federal court here to protect the company

So, basically the company has outlawed something it was doing only just over a year ago? I'm really hating saying this but I hope FIRST Racing crash and burn.

DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, how many bought NR2003 for the NASCAR? How
> many GPL Sales of the last 3-4 years were to be
> used with the default graphics?
>
>
> vMax.Ellis
> Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
> www.vMaxSR.com


Hey, i bought NR2003 for nascar (i dont like nascar though, but its fun!)

And if i could find GPL in a shop i would buy it, with default graphics, its not that bad (got to play the old demo once, fun!)


The Flanker is gone.

i bought NR2003 for nascar, i dont have any mods installed at the moment either.

I bought NR2003 for mods at first, but then fell in love with the default nascar "mod".


My photo gallery: [viltzu86.deviantart.com]

Tim McArthur's (accused) side:

Quote

TIM MCARTHUR REACHES AGREEMENT WITH FIRST-RACING.NET OVER FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND SLANDER IN CIVIL SUIT

Tim McArthur, a 16 year veteran sim- racer and respected member of the online racing community, announced today that an agreement has been reached between himself and FIRST-Racing.net who had filed a Civil Suit against him in March 2005. McArthur, a single father in California



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2005 03:53AM by gav.

FIRST-Racing.net is planning to charge a monthly subscription fee to play their still nonexistent product, say sources inside FIRST-Racing

I'm sorry but WTF! I've heard of this on online games, which is fair enough (pays for stuff like keeping servers going etc... overall makes it more enjoyable online) but on normal Single Player Games?? thats just gone miles too far now! What happened to just been able to go down to the shop and pay £30 and play as much as you want for ever?

the well known GPL Flop

That isn't really fair on the game... only reason it didn't do well cause in 1998 cause it was way ahead of its time! Steering Wheels for the PC were still a new technology! Force Feedback had only just been developed on Microsoft Wheels and as everyone knows, playing GPL on anything other than a Wheel is pretty much impossible!
If it had been released say in 2002, I reckon it would have been a much bigger hit! Even with its original GFX engine :| If I remember the advertising for GPL was massive! I have old F1 Racing mags from back then with GPL advertising in Reviews didn't do it justice cause people who reviewed it didn't know how to race :P and complained about no in game commentary and music 8-) and basically been just too hard on keyboard.... I played it in 1998, but it was just way too hard on Keyboard, tried on and off until 2003, when I was invited to join Vader Trophy, when I really got playing it properly and really appreciated the game!

and Papyrus Design Group didn't really fail! They made a pile of fantasic games, Indycar series, Nascar Series and GPL, maybe a few more... only reason they failed cause EA came in with their big bags of money and got the Nascar Licence.


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2005 04:05PM by Ianwoollam.