Computer (almost) totally damaged; I need help/advice
Posted by Lex
Thanks for the graphics cards list. Is there anything I should know about motherboards? Or is it ok as long as the chip's and graphics card's sockets match what I intend to put on them?
gav schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's hard to recommend much, as it sounds like
> this bloke is taking you for a ride. He has a look
> over your PC and all of a sudden you've got a
> faulty motherboard and graphics card? He then
> tries to wipe the drive without even offering to
> back up the data (or suggesting that you do)?
Yeah, it sounds like that indeed. I'm going to get my PC back and (maybe) take it to another person in order to have another view on what the hell is going on. If the new tech says the same thing as this one, there are two possibilities: either the first tech was right, or both of them are trying to take me for a ride.
Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
Eins zwei drei vier fünf sechs sieben acht neun zehn
One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять
gav schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's hard to recommend much, as it sounds like
> this bloke is taking you for a ride. He has a look
> over your PC and all of a sudden you've got a
> faulty motherboard and graphics card? He then
> tries to wipe the drive without even offering to
> back up the data (or suggesting that you do)?
Yeah, it sounds like that indeed. I'm going to get my PC back and (maybe) take it to another person in order to have another view on what the hell is going on. If the new tech says the same thing as this one, there are two possibilities: either the first tech was right, or both of them are trying to take me for a ride.
Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
Eins zwei drei vier fünf sechs sieben acht neun zehn
One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see. My sister has a 320GB external HD for
> backups anyway, so I guess 500GB will be more than
> enough. In case I can't find the Samsung F3, what
> do you say about a 500GB SATA II Seagate
> Barracuda?
Avoid Seagate now. If you can't get a Samsung F3, get a Western Digital Black.
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way, what do F1, F2 and F3 mean?
It's not a grade, more an identifier. It doesn't scale - an F1 is faster than F2, while an F3 is a replacement of the F1. The F2 is a lower-power, variable speed data drive, like the Western Digital Greens.
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What do you consider a major upgrade? Putting
> another graphics card to do CrossFire? Getting
> another 4GB of memory?
Another graphics card, yep - they consume a lot of power. Adding more memory, no - it consumes very little. I was thinking an overhaul, perhaps adding more hard drives, and yes, a replacement graphics card, or an additional one.
If you're considering a 2nd graphics card in the future, I wouldn't bother myself. The 5850 or 5870 will have plummeted in price by then (if NVIDIA ever release anything comparable), and offer nearly double the performance of a 48xx, so would make a more sensible upgrade path (especially if you sold your 4890 to someone who wasn't as forward thinking
).
Actually, on that note, I'd consider a 5770 if you can find one. They're a tiny bit slower than a 4890, but consume far, far less power, are quieter, cooler, shorter and adding a 2nd one of them in the future will be easier than adding another 4890, which will be in shorter supply.
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I still have to check real world stores, so
> maybe I'll find the Antec 300 and a 500W PSU. Are
> they too expensive? The Liberty PSU costs around
> R$640 ($365) here.
$365 American? Christ! That's ludicrously expensive! You could probably fly to America, pick up the same PSU and fly back for around the same money!
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see. My sister has a 320GB external HD for
> backups anyway, so I guess 500GB will be more than
> enough. In case I can't find the Samsung F3, what
> do you say about a 500GB SATA II Seagate
> Barracuda?
Avoid Seagate now. If you can't get a Samsung F3, get a Western Digital Black.
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way, what do F1, F2 and F3 mean?
It's not a grade, more an identifier. It doesn't scale - an F1 is faster than F2, while an F3 is a replacement of the F1. The F2 is a lower-power, variable speed data drive, like the Western Digital Greens.
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What do you consider a major upgrade? Putting
> another graphics card to do CrossFire? Getting
> another 4GB of memory?
Another graphics card, yep - they consume a lot of power. Adding more memory, no - it consumes very little. I was thinking an overhaul, perhaps adding more hard drives, and yes, a replacement graphics card, or an additional one.
If you're considering a 2nd graphics card in the future, I wouldn't bother myself. The 5850 or 5870 will have plummeted in price by then (if NVIDIA ever release anything comparable), and offer nearly double the performance of a 48xx, so would make a more sensible upgrade path (especially if you sold your 4890 to someone who wasn't as forward thinking
).Actually, on that note, I'd consider a 5770 if you can find one. They're a tiny bit slower than a 4890, but consume far, far less power, are quieter, cooler, shorter and adding a 2nd one of them in the future will be easier than adding another 4890, which will be in shorter supply.
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I still have to check real world stores, so
> maybe I'll find the Antec 300 and a 500W PSU. Are
> they too expensive? The Liberty PSU costs around
> R$640 ($365) here.
$365 American? Christ! That's ludicrously expensive! You could probably fly to America, pick up the same PSU and fly back for around the same money!
gav schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Avoid Seagate now. If you can't get a Samsung F3,
> get a Western Digital Black.
Why should I avoid Seagate?
gav schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you're considering a 2nd graphics card in the
> future, I wouldn't bother myself. The 5850 or 5870
> will have plummeted in price by then (if NVIDIA
> ever release anything comparable), and offer
> nearly double the performance of a 48xx, so would
> make a more sensible upgrade path (especially if
> you sold your 4890 to someone who wasn't as
> forward thinking).
>
> Actually, on that note, I'd consider a 5770 if you
> can find one. They're a tiny bit slower than a
> 4890, but consume far, far less power, are
> quieter, cooler, shorter and adding a 2nd one of
> them in the future will be easier than adding
> another 4890, which will be in shorter supply.
I'm not sure if I'll want a second graphics card in the future. I guess I'll prefer to buy a new computer again when the time comes, instead of upgrading this one.
Do I need to use the same model to do CrossFire? A 5870 costs around R$1.680 ($960) here, which makes it way out of reach right now - the current total price of my computer is R$430 ($245) lower than it was with the original list, and I'm trying to reduce it even more.
gav schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> $365 American? Christ! That's ludicrously
> expensive! You could probably fly to America, pick
> up the same PSU and fly back for around the same
> money!
Yeah, American. Eletronics are monstruously expensive in Brazil because of really high import (and other) taxes, which does help in making contraband an option.
There's an Enermax 500W Liberty DDX for R$479 ($274). How can I know if 500W will be enough?
Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
Eins zwei drei vier fünf sechs sieben acht neun zehn
One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять
-------------------------------------------------------
> Avoid Seagate now. If you can't get a Samsung F3,
> get a Western Digital Black.
Why should I avoid Seagate?
gav schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you're considering a 2nd graphics card in the
> future, I wouldn't bother myself. The 5850 or 5870
> will have plummeted in price by then (if NVIDIA
> ever release anything comparable), and offer
> nearly double the performance of a 48xx, so would
> make a more sensible upgrade path (especially if
> you sold your 4890 to someone who wasn't as
> forward thinking
).>
> Actually, on that note, I'd consider a 5770 if you
> can find one. They're a tiny bit slower than a
> 4890, but consume far, far less power, are
> quieter, cooler, shorter and adding a 2nd one of
> them in the future will be easier than adding
> another 4890, which will be in shorter supply.
I'm not sure if I'll want a second graphics card in the future. I guess I'll prefer to buy a new computer again when the time comes, instead of upgrading this one.
Do I need to use the same model to do CrossFire? A 5870 costs around R$1.680 ($960) here, which makes it way out of reach right now - the current total price of my computer is R$430 ($245) lower than it was with the original list, and I'm trying to reduce it even more.
gav schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> $365 American? Christ! That's ludicrously
> expensive! You could probably fly to America, pick
> up the same PSU and fly back for around the same
> money!
Yeah, American. Eletronics are monstruously expensive in Brazil because of really high import (and other) taxes, which does help in making contraband an option.
There's an Enermax 500W Liberty DDX for R$479 ($274). How can I know if 500W will be enough?
Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
Eins zwei drei vier fünf sechs sieben acht neun zehn
One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why should I avoid Seagate?
Because they've gone through enough bad batches since their takeover of Maxtor to not be called bad batched any more. A bit like Maxtor themselves.
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do I need to use the same model to do CrossFire? A
> 5870 costs around R$1.680 ($960) here, which makes
> it way out of reach right now - the current total
> price of my computer is R$430 ($245) lower than it
> was with the original list, and I'm trying to
> reduce it even more.
Erm. I believe you can CrossFire 2 cards from the same chip base. If so, you can CrossFire a 4870 and 4850, but not a 4870 and a 4770, for instance. I've never been interested in CrossFire (I don't game enough to warrant it), so it's not something I actively go and look up, so if that's a future consideration, make sure you read up about it first!
I realise the 5870 (and 5850) is out of reach at the moment. It's just been released and NVIDIA have no response to it, so the price is inflated. It will drop in price, especially so when NVIDIA's next high-end part comes out. I was more recommending that as a future upgrade rather than adding a 2nd card to what you do buy now.
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's an Enermax 500W Liberty DDX for R$479
> ($274). How can I know if 500W will be enough?
Because I'm telling you.
It wouldn't be enough if you bought a relatively cheap PSU, and it's never enough if you buy the bottom-of-the-range-QTec-type-fire-hazards, but with a good brand and a good range, it'll be fine. Go for the higher one if you think you might add a 2nd card in the future though.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why should I avoid Seagate?
Because they've gone through enough bad batches since their takeover of Maxtor to not be called bad batched any more. A bit like Maxtor themselves.
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do I need to use the same model to do CrossFire? A
> 5870 costs around R$1.680 ($960) here, which makes
> it way out of reach right now - the current total
> price of my computer is R$430 ($245) lower than it
> was with the original list, and I'm trying to
> reduce it even more.
Erm. I believe you can CrossFire 2 cards from the same chip base. If so, you can CrossFire a 4870 and 4850, but not a 4870 and a 4770, for instance. I've never been interested in CrossFire (I don't game enough to warrant it), so it's not something I actively go and look up, so if that's a future consideration, make sure you read up about it first!
I realise the 5870 (and 5850) is out of reach at the moment. It's just been released and NVIDIA have no response to it, so the price is inflated. It will drop in price, especially so when NVIDIA's next high-end part comes out. I was more recommending that as a future upgrade rather than adding a 2nd card to what you do buy now.
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's an Enermax 500W Liberty DDX for R$479
> ($274). How can I know if 500W will be enough?
Because I'm telling you.
It wouldn't be enough if you bought a relatively cheap PSU, and it's never enough if you buy the bottom-of-the-range-QTec-type-fire-hazards, but with a good brand and a good range, it'll be fine. Go for the higher one if you think you might add a 2nd card in the future though.
All in all, I'm finding relatively good prices for the internal components (cases are kind of a pain in the buttocks). I did a d'oh in the beginning and put 1.600MHz memory on the list - I read that the i5 750 chip supports only 1.333MHz. There's another observation on the waz.com.br website saying that Intel says that the i5 750 chip may become permanently damaged if I use DDR3 modules with more than 1,65V, so I put on the list a DDR3 1.333MHz 2GB Corsair Value 1,5V (maybe two of them).
About the case: does it do more than just protect the internal components? I'm seeing from $58 cases, that come with a single fan on the back and suit the ATX thing, to $685 cases, that do I don't have the slightest idea of what.
gav schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Avoid Seagate now. If you can't get a Samsung F3,
> get a Western Digital Black.
I found a Samsung F1 for $108 and a Western Digital for $114, both 500GB. Which one do you recommend?
gav schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because I'm telling you.
lol
I meant it in case I'm all alone and there's no gav to help me.
Oh, about the OS: 32 or 64 bits? I found a Windows 7 package that comes with both versions for $220, and about half the price if I get just the 32 or the 64. I absolutely don't know the difference between them.
Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
Eins zwei drei vier fünf sechs sieben acht neun zehn
One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять
About the case: does it do more than just protect the internal components? I'm seeing from $58 cases, that come with a single fan on the back and suit the ATX thing, to $685 cases, that do I don't have the slightest idea of what.
gav schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Avoid Seagate now. If you can't get a Samsung F3,
> get a Western Digital Black.
I found a Samsung F1 for $108 and a Western Digital for $114, both 500GB. Which one do you recommend?
gav schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because I'm telling you.
lol
I meant it in case I'm all alone and there's no gav to help me.
Oh, about the OS: 32 or 64 bits? I found a Windows 7 package that comes with both versions for $220, and about half the price if I get just the 32 or the 64. I absolutely don't know the difference between them.
Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
Eins zwei drei vier fünf sechs sieben acht neun zehn
One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять
Yep, I found a Corsair HX520W for $218, an Enermax 500W Liberty DDX for $273 and a Seasonic 500W for $331, but each on a different store. The best I could find available on the store where most of the components are the least expensive was a Corsair HX620W.
gav schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4GB would be better, perhaps adding 2x1GB sticks
> if you want 6GB now, or adding another 4GB later.
> Core i5 (and the 800 series i7) is dual-channel
> rather than tri-channel (as the i7 900 series
> are), so running with 3x2GB sticks would actually
> make the memory run in single-channel mode.
Ok. I can live without 6GB - I put it only because I thought it was a good deal. But since it would be better to have 4GB, I can save some $.
Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
Eins zwei drei vier fünf sechs sieben acht neun zehn
One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять
gav schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4GB would be better, perhaps adding 2x1GB sticks
> if you want 6GB now, or adding another 4GB later.
> Core i5 (and the 800 series i7) is dual-channel
> rather than tri-channel (as the i7 900 series
> are), so running with 3x2GB sticks would actually
> make the memory run in single-channel mode.
Ok. I can live without 6GB - I put it only because I thought it was a good deal. But since it would be better to have 4GB, I can save some $.
Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
Eins zwei drei vier fünf sechs sieben acht neun zehn
One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've found a PSU that cracks 80% efficiency, and
> costs much less than any of the brands that you've
> recommended - it's a Huntkey 550W ATX12V v2.2
> V-Power Series LW-6550SG.
It's not on the list of certified Huntkey PSUs, so it's probably just them claiming it. I've no experience of them myself, or have seen any other experiences. I'd stick with ones people do know.
Lex Wrote:
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> Why not? The increase in performance isn't
> noticeable?
It's barely even measurably, let alone benchmarkable and certainly not noticeable. That said, if it's the same price or cheaper, then it would be silly not get the faster stuff.
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way, is it true that the chip may become
> permanently damaged if I use memory with more than
> 1,65V?
More Intel covering their arses - it won't pop suddenly, but it might knock a year or 2 off the life of the chip, so down to 5yr perhaps. But I'd stick with stuff at 1.5v. No point in risking it for no extra performance.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've found a PSU that cracks 80% efficiency, and
> costs much less than any of the brands that you've
> recommended - it's a Huntkey 550W ATX12V v2.2
> V-Power Series LW-6550SG.
It's not on the list of certified Huntkey PSUs, so it's probably just them claiming it. I've no experience of them myself, or have seen any other experiences. I'd stick with ones people do know.
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why not? The increase in performance isn't
> noticeable?
It's barely even measurably, let alone benchmarkable and certainly not noticeable. That said, if it's the same price or cheaper, then it would be silly not get the faster stuff.
Lex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way, is it true that the chip may become
> permanently damaged if I use memory with more than
> 1,65V?
More Intel covering their arses - it won't pop suddenly, but it might knock a year or 2 off the life of the chip, so down to 5yr perhaps. But I'd stick with stuff at 1.5v. No point in risking it for no extra performance.
Before I forget: gav, thanks a lot for all your help so far. Here's something for you:
So, my old computer has been repaired (almost rebuilt tbh) and I'll keep it. But I'd like to bring it a little closer to what I was planning to buy. The new motherboard is an ASUS P5KPL-AM SE, which has a PCI-E x16 slot. All the 4890 graphics cards that I'm finding are PCI-E x16 v2.0 - is it compatible?
I'm thinking about putting another 2GB of memory. Should I install another one of the model that's already on my motherboard or it doesn't matter? Would it be better if I got a Corsair kit with 2 2GB modules? By the way, can I use a 64 bit OS with my Pentium 4 630 processor? I found this on Intel's spec page about my processor:
Supported Features:
Enhanced Intel Speedstep® Technology
Hyper-Threading Technology
Intel® EM64T
Enhanced Halt State (C1E)
Execute Disable Bit
Last but not least: I've just seen that my current PSU is a Huntkey LW-6400H 400W. Will it handle a 4890 graphics card?
Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
Eins zwei drei vier fünf sechs sieben acht neun zehn
One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять
So, my old computer has been repaired (almost rebuilt tbh) and I'll keep it. But I'd like to bring it a little closer to what I was planning to buy. The new motherboard is an ASUS P5KPL-AM SE, which has a PCI-E x16 slot. All the 4890 graphics cards that I'm finding are PCI-E x16 v2.0 - is it compatible?
I'm thinking about putting another 2GB of memory. Should I install another one of the model that's already on my motherboard or it doesn't matter? Would it be better if I got a Corsair kit with 2 2GB modules? By the way, can I use a 64 bit OS with my Pentium 4 630 processor? I found this on Intel's spec page about my processor:
Supported Features:
Enhanced Intel Speedstep® Technology
Hyper-Threading Technology
Intel® EM64T
Enhanced Halt State (C1E)
Execute Disable Bit
Last but not least: I've just seen that my current PSU is a Huntkey LW-6400H 400W. Will it handle a 4890 graphics card?
Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
Eins zwei drei vier fünf sechs sieben acht neun zehn
One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять
It's all over now: I bought a XFX ATI Radeon HD 4890 1GB GDDR5 256-bit PCI-E 2.0 x16 and a Corsair HX520, and another 2GB module.
Once again, thanks a lot for all your help gav.
Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
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One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
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Once again, thanks a lot for all your help gav.
Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
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One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять
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