The Official 2009 Singapore Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Posted by EC83
Heidfeld's car came out of that crash with the rear wheel sticking up like Senna's was at Estoril in 1989. A long time since I've seen an F1 car damaged in quite that way.
Sutil went from being possibly the driver of the weekend at Monza to being a total n00b in this race.
Sutil went from being possibly the driver of the weekend at Monza to being a total n00b in this race.
EC83 Wrote:
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> This year's Championship battle is proving to be a
> total anticlimax after the last few ones TBH, it's
> the least exciting one at least since 2005.
Oh yeah, absolutely. And its not even close. I guess its great for some people to have all these different winners, to claim F1 isn't one sided. But to me thats utterly boring. These meaningless wins do nothing for me.
What I crave is what we were spoiled with the last couple years. Ferrari vs. McLaren. Two teams going head to head, session after session ,race after race, fighting tooth & nail. To me, thats what makes F1. Following an intense rivalry all the way through the season.
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> This year's Championship battle is proving to be a
> total anticlimax after the last few ones TBH, it's
> the least exciting one at least since 2005.
Oh yeah, absolutely. And its not even close. I guess its great for some people to have all these different winners, to claim F1 isn't one sided. But to me thats utterly boring. These meaningless wins do nothing for me.
What I crave is what we were spoiled with the last couple years. Ferrari vs. McLaren. Two teams going head to head, session after session ,race after race, fighting tooth & nail. To me, thats what makes F1. Following an intense rivalry all the way through the season.
Webbo's penalty a difficult one.
A shame for Nico but it happens, and it was his mistake. Still, whether he finished or not it was once again perfect represenation of how he needs a better car!! Driver of the day IMO.
tbh I didnt know Glock was 2nd till he crossed the line! kinda came from nowhere! Good result but why cant he do this every race? he's too inconsistant!
Brawn did not have the pace to win today!! Button did a pretty good job, once again doing it when it matters.
it's a shame to hear the same old, Button not worthy shite. It was always, "he's not good enough", "when he wins ill change my mind blahblah" and yet now people have the very nerve to try and put down this championship.
Alot of people bum Vettel. I do, I think hes great, BUT he has never got the job done when it matters, he has never once showed he's aggressive and can overtake when he needs too and he's often made his races alot harder for himself by bad starts or simply not overtaking! Take Rubens at Bahrain on Piquet. Rubens chucked the car inside from miles back! People are saying Button is going to be the worst champion for a long time... why?
He's won the most races, got most poles, most points, most consistant, least mistakes, got the job done when it matters, overtaken when he's had to. A few bad races but who doesnt have those?
In the last few seasons Lewis made plenty of mistakes, Massa made mistakes, Kimi is inconsistant... I ask, what have they done to earn the right of being the 'elite' and being Godlike amungst F1 fans whereas divers like Button can only dream of being as good as they are? I see people making excuses after excuses to try and put him down another notch and its getting a bit old now.
This isnt aimed at anyone, its an observation!!! I havent mentioned Alonso in those list because he simply is Godlike :p!
edit - Also on this, Button's pace on very heavy fuel before the first stop was fantastic. He was keeping up and getting quicker than a lighter Kova. Had the saftey car not come out Button would have been a better posistion IMO. The extra fuel he had could have eventually see him in front of Vettel and maybe ahead of Alonso.
Karen - Meaningless wins? How so? Also Mclaren v's Ferrari is F1??
Some may say Alfa v's Merecedes and Ferrari, otherwise will say Lotus v's Tyrrell, others even many say Williams v's Mclaren. Catch my drift?
btw, if F1 is Mclaren v's Ferrari, what was the sport between 1979 and 2000?!
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2009 02:29AM by chet.
A shame for Nico but it happens, and it was his mistake. Still, whether he finished or not it was once again perfect represenation of how he needs a better car!! Driver of the day IMO.
tbh I didnt know Glock was 2nd till he crossed the line! kinda came from nowhere! Good result but why cant he do this every race? he's too inconsistant!
Brawn did not have the pace to win today!! Button did a pretty good job, once again doing it when it matters.
it's a shame to hear the same old, Button not worthy shite. It was always, "he's not good enough", "when he wins ill change my mind blahblah" and yet now people have the very nerve to try and put down this championship.
Alot of people bum Vettel. I do, I think hes great, BUT he has never got the job done when it matters, he has never once showed he's aggressive and can overtake when he needs too and he's often made his races alot harder for himself by bad starts or simply not overtaking! Take Rubens at Bahrain on Piquet. Rubens chucked the car inside from miles back! People are saying Button is going to be the worst champion for a long time... why?
He's won the most races, got most poles, most points, most consistant, least mistakes, got the job done when it matters, overtaken when he's had to. A few bad races but who doesnt have those?
In the last few seasons Lewis made plenty of mistakes, Massa made mistakes, Kimi is inconsistant... I ask, what have they done to earn the right of being the 'elite' and being Godlike amungst F1 fans whereas divers like Button can only dream of being as good as they are? I see people making excuses after excuses to try and put him down another notch and its getting a bit old now.
This isnt aimed at anyone, its an observation!!! I havent mentioned Alonso in those list because he simply is Godlike :p!
edit - Also on this, Button's pace on very heavy fuel before the first stop was fantastic. He was keeping up and getting quicker than a lighter Kova. Had the saftey car not come out Button would have been a better posistion IMO. The extra fuel he had could have eventually see him in front of Vettel and maybe ahead of Alonso.
Karen - Meaningless wins? How so? Also Mclaren v's Ferrari is F1??
Some may say Alfa v's Merecedes and Ferrari, otherwise will say Lotus v's Tyrrell, others even many say Williams v's Mclaren. Catch my drift?
btw, if F1 is Mclaren v's Ferrari, what was the sport between 1979 and 2000?!
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2009 02:29AM by chet.
I really hate against the fia and whiteny's management in the way they treat their drivers. They are too strict nowadays and so over reacting about a simple incident. like webber gone wide and got drive through penalty? wtf... i hope whitney got less to live in this planet earth.
Button has won 6 races this year. Unusually, they all managed to come at the start of the season. But if he had won the fist one, then had a bad race, then won the next one, etc. (i.e. all his wins were spread out over a whole season) then people's viewing of things would be different. It's rubbish saying that he doesn't deserve the title because he hasn't achieved enough. Look at his points total! If he wins this year, that total's going to be very similar, if not better, to those achieved in '03, '05, '06, '07 and '08.
The problem with the younger generation is that they've grown up in the Schumaher era, when Championships were won decisively by one of the best drivers the World has ever seen. For many years before that, and in the current F1 climate, nobody has a perfect, dominant season. This Championship battle is no different from countless others which have gone before it, and Jenson has certainly done no better or worse than most of the recent World Champions over a whole season.
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The problem with the younger generation is that they've grown up in the Schumaher era, when Championships were won decisively by one of the best drivers the World has ever seen. For many years before that, and in the current F1 climate, nobody has a perfect, dominant season. This Championship battle is no different from countless others which have gone before it, and Jenson has certainly done no better or worse than most of the recent World Champions over a whole season.
DaveEllis Wrote:
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> That said, he was poor. Vettel got a penalty and
> damaged his car, and was still ahead of Webber
> before his accident. That shouldn't have been.
I agree that he didn't drive very well in the race (allowing a big gap to form between him and Barrichello when the SC came out, allowing Jenson and Kovalainen to come out between them was particularly poor and showed a lack of awareness), but i think the fact that Webber was stuck behind Alonso was the main reason for him being that far back, nothing to do with his pace. Sure he was slower than Vettel at the start of the race anyway, but not slow enough to be that far back.
X (@ed24f1)
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> That said, he was poor. Vettel got a penalty and
> damaged his car, and was still ahead of Webber
> before his accident. That shouldn't have been.
I agree that he didn't drive very well in the race (allowing a big gap to form between him and Barrichello when the SC came out, allowing Jenson and Kovalainen to come out between them was particularly poor and showed a lack of awareness), but i think the fact that Webber was stuck behind Alonso was the main reason for him being that far back, nothing to do with his pace. Sure he was slower than Vettel at the start of the race anyway, but not slow enough to be that far back.
X (@ed24f1)
He went on to win six of the first seven races of the season (2009), equalling a record achieved by only two other drivers, Michael Schumacher and Jim Clark.
About vettel, I think he(STR),schumacher(Jordan) and Senna(Lotus) are the only guy i think who have performed well beyond expections driving for low budget team. Well soon alot of talented driver outheir will lineup to this guys
anyway!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2009 03:46PM by micky-cannonball.
About vettel, I think he(STR),schumacher(Jordan) and Senna(Lotus) are the only guy i think who have performed well beyond expections driving for low budget team. Well soon alot of talented driver outheir will lineup to this guys
anyway!Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2009 03:46PM by micky-cannonball.
Ali Wrote:
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> What it is true, is that could be a title like
> MotoGP 2006 Hayden title, after this season,
> Button could end nowhere again next year and never
> come back. But he took the chance, good for him.
I think that is very highly likely. We have seen from the 2nd half of this year that McLaren and Ferrari are doing as good or better a job than Brawn and Red Bull with their 2009 cars. With 2010 cars and probably the four best drivers of the year, it is very hard to see anything but a Ferrari vs. McLaren battle for the championship next year. Red Bull and Brawn could get a win or two, but not enough to fight for the championship i think.
X (@ed24f1)
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> What it is true, is that could be a title like
> MotoGP 2006 Hayden title, after this season,
> Button could end nowhere again next year and never
> come back. But he took the chance, good for him.
I think that is very highly likely. We have seen from the 2nd half of this year that McLaren and Ferrari are doing as good or better a job than Brawn and Red Bull with their 2009 cars. With 2010 cars and probably the four best drivers of the year, it is very hard to see anything but a Ferrari vs. McLaren battle for the championship next year. Red Bull and Brawn could get a win or two, but not enough to fight for the championship i think.
X (@ed24f1)
micky-cannonball Wrote:
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> About vettel, I think he(STR),schumacher(Jordan)
> and Senna(Lotus) are the only guy i think who have
> performed well beyond expections driving for low
> budget team. Well soon alot of talented driver
> outheir will lineup to this guys anyway!
It's harder now to drive 'above expectations' now than it was in the 90s and earlier.
Of recent drivers, I'd add Alonso, Barrichello and especially Frentzen to the list above.
It's pretty much the opposite of Diniz, who only ever came alive when he got into a strong car - he was crap in the Forti.
Even back in the 60s and 70s drivers didn't outperform their cars too much - if they were in a lower car than they would be later in their career they tended to give that car some respect. Stewart at BRM is a good example. He went on to dominate at Matra, March and Tyrell, but took a bit of time to get going at BRM. I had a few good races (leading at Spa one year ('67 I think) before retiring as I recall) but overall didn't overly show the potential he realised in his later years.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2009 03:58PM by gav.
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> About vettel, I think he(STR),schumacher(Jordan)
> and Senna(Lotus) are the only guy i think who have
> performed well beyond expections driving for low
> budget team. Well soon alot of talented driver
> outheir will lineup to this guys
anyway!It's harder now to drive 'above expectations' now than it was in the 90s and earlier.
Of recent drivers, I'd add Alonso, Barrichello and especially Frentzen to the list above.
It's pretty much the opposite of Diniz, who only ever came alive when he got into a strong car - he was crap in the Forti.
Even back in the 60s and 70s drivers didn't outperform their cars too much - if they were in a lower car than they would be later in their career they tended to give that car some respect. Stewart at BRM is a good example. He went on to dominate at Matra, March and Tyrell, but took a bit of time to get going at BRM. I had a few good races (leading at Spa one year ('67 I think) before retiring as I recall) but overall didn't overly show the potential he realised in his later years.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2009 03:58PM by gav.
Race pace though Over one lap Kovy is fantastic shown by his lap at Monza.
I still think Lewis drove well at the start of the year, pushing as hard as he could yes sometimes to hard like in China but at least he was trying.
I dunno its just my view on it.
Over one lap Kovy is fantastic shown by his lap at Monza.I still think Lewis drove well at the start of the year, pushing as hard as he could yes sometimes to hard like in China but at least he was trying.
I dunno its just my view on it.
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