Schumacher NOT returning

Frankly I'd suck Alesi's cock, that's how big of a fan I was

Hahaha!

So our Gav has a weakness :p. I didnt know you felt this way. Alesi is to Gav as Button is to Chet !

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guimengo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Senna battled on the race track fairly with
> > Mansell, Lauda, Piquet, Alesi, and tried with
> > Prost... what did Schumacher do with Hill,
> > Villeneuve, Montoya,...?
> >
> > Not the same kind.
>
> I'd put Alonso up there with any of the best
> drivers ever, even if you can't compare ability
> directly.
>
> Kimi when he's on it too. And Montoya might have
> had a better car at times, but as opponents go, he
> was a massive rival - what Mansell was to Senna.
>
> Piquet is vastly over-rated in my opinion. At
> Williams Mansell had the beating of him, and only
> the worst luck imaginable allowed Piquet to sneak
> in ahead.
>
> Frankly I'd suck Alesi's cock, that's how big of a
> fan I was, but he wasn't a fantastic racing driver
> - he was special, awe-inspiring and spectacular at
> times, but he was about as far removed from the
> complete package as you'll get - Gilles
> Villeneueve mk II.
>
>
>
> I'm a huge Senna fan, but he was a dirty driver on
> the track at times and bitter through most of his
> career. Schumacher cheated. Senna cheated. That
> one might have cheated once or twice more than the
> other makes sod all difference - they were both
> willing to break the rules in order to win.


Gav, I listed the guys who I recall Schumi played dirty against. Versus Alonso he never really had a chance to do so

chet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frankly I'd suck Alesi's cock, that's how big of a
> fan I was
>
> Hahaha!
>
> So our Gav has a weakness :p. I didnt know you
> felt this way. Alesi is to Gav as Button is to
> Chet !


I walked into this thread at the wrong time..... I could say something snappy, but, well, your a Button fan, I think youve been punished enough.


The Flanker is gone.

Guimengo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isaint Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gees!! what's with the hate? What? .... Did he
> > cheat himself to 7 world Championships?
> > Every body cheats a little, it's called a
> > competive spirit. It's not right but get a
> grip,
> > every one does it.
>
>
> I am extremely competitive yet I have never
> cheated in any sport and I know I am far from
> being alone here.
>
> You cite some other examples but let me pick
> Senna: He was robbed in 1989, everyone knows that.
> So in 1990 in the same place from the year before,
> a decision before the race goes against what was
> agreed by drivers, in order for the French FIA
> president give the French driver an advantage
> again and hopefully another title. Senna could
> have raced and beat Prost on the track but he felt
> very angry about it and (to me) justifiably took
> his decision to just go straight a little longer.
> What if they had raced and Senna took 2nd by .1s?
> "Oh you chose to race so it means you did abide by
> my decision to switch the grid".
>
> Schumacher initiated all of his maneuvers without
> being provoked, per se.


I am also extremely competetive, from athletics all the way through to ameteur boxing I have also never Cheated and I like you, say that I never would.
But I am not a world Champion at any level, let alone seven times.
So I guess whether you are prepared to cheat or not ... means not one jot in the history of accomplishments from others who have been prepared to do so.
So, like I said before, your feelings, my feelings ..... anybodies feelings, doesn't matter because they can not and never will, de-tract one iota from M.S'S achievments, and forget this forum, ..... the entire world knows it. End of story.


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2009 01:54PM by Isaint.

Guimengo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gav Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Guimengo Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Senna battled on the race track fairly with
> > > Mansell, Lauda, Piquet, Alesi, and tried with
> > > Prost... what did Schumacher do with Hill,
> > > Villeneuve, Montoya,...?
> > >
> > > Not the same kind.
> >
> > I'd put Alonso up there with any of the best
> > drivers ever, even if you can't compare ability
> > directly.
> >
> > Kimi when he's on it too. And Montoya might
> have
> > had a better car at times, but as opponents go,
> he
> > was a massive rival - what Mansell was to
> Senna.
> >
> > Piquet is vastly over-rated in my opinion. At
> > Williams Mansell had the beating of him, and
> only
> > the worst luck imaginable allowed Piquet to
> sneak
> > in ahead.
> >
> > Frankly I'd suck Alesi's cock, that's how big of
> a
> > fan I was, but he wasn't a fantastic racing
> driver
> > - he was special, awe-inspiring and spectacular
> at
> > times, but he was about as far removed from the
> > complete package as you'll get - Gilles
> > Villeneueve mk II.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm a huge Senna fan, but he was a dirty driver
> on
> > the track at times and bitter through most of
> his
> > career. Schumacher cheated. Senna cheated. That
> > one might have cheated once or twice more than
> the
> > other makes sod all difference - they were both
> > willing to break the rules in order to win.
>
>
> Gav, I listed the guys who I recall Schumi played
> dirty against. Versus Alonso he never really had a
> chance to do so

Silverstone 2003? Monaco 2006? Two of the dirtiest stunts Michael ever pulled.



gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frankly I'd suck Alesi's cock, that's how big of a
> fan I was, but he wasn't a fantastic racing driver
> - he was special, awe-inspiring and spectacular at
> times, but he was about as far removed from the
> complete package as you'll get - Gilles
> Villeneueve mk II.

Heh, agreed there. I was a massive fan of Alesi during his Tyrrell and Ferrari days, his flamboyant style and Latin charisma in the cockpit captivated my imagination. But he was the most flawed top driver I can remember watching too. I don't think any other driver with so much natural talent has achieved so relatively little success in F1. Chris Amon maybe just eclipses him.


> I'm a huge Senna fan, but he was a dirty driver on
> the track at times and bitter through most of his
> career. Schumacher cheated. Senna cheated. That
> one might have cheated once or twice more than the
> other makes sod all difference - they were both
> willing to break the rules in order to win.

True.
I think the real difference between Senna and Schumacher was off the track rather than on it. Senna did do some shocking things, but at least he admitted to doing them afterwards.

---

I only noted Alesi due to that fantastic and very clean battle they had in the US. Clean.

Gui stop talking @#$%&. You make it sound that MS only ran people off the track and that Senna was the cleanest driver in the history of the earth. Both Senna and MS have had clean battles. Both MS and Senna have ran people off the track. And whether Senna was so called provoked or not is irrelevant, since he wouldn't have ran Prost off the track if he was the clean driver you claim him to have been. If you're such a clean and honest and what not driver, you don't run people off the track. End of.

I'm not saying any of these moves are wrong or right, but MS and Senna were both as bad as eachother. Defending Senna in this, but accusing MS of cheating is pure hypocrisy.

Guimengo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I only noted Alesi due to that fantastic and very
> clean battle they had in the US. Clean.

I think Massa and Kubica ran each other off track at Fuji 2007 more than MS did everyone in his entire career.

Let's face it - the worst cheating of all was Senna at Suzuka - not only was it predetermined, it was bloody dangerous too. You won't find me defending Schumacher as such, but at least Schumacher's moves were only cheating of the unsporting variety.

Nickv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not saying any of these moves are wrong or
> right, but MS and Senna were both as bad as
> eachother.

As was demonstrated by their various run-ins in the early 90s.

---

LOL - he is the best, no HE is the best, no,no, no no HE is the best bla bla bla .....

Now matter what, who or where you are, people will always talk about you if you do things or happen to be in the public eye.

I think people will always talk about other people and the concern will always be "what exactly will they say"

Like any "sport" or competition it just so happens that there will be a winner and a loser or losers.

Of all people the most wise words come from a multiple F1 champion who said to a new comer

"Get use to LOSING, because that is what all of us DO most of the time ............... "

Even with Schu, this applies ........

Competed in 15 GP World Championships, won 7, thus lost 8!!
Competed in 250 GP races, won 91, thus lost 159 !!

And this is true of every GREAT driver ...........

mmmmmmm .......... interesting indeed

The one difference I seemed to have noticed between Senna's incidents and the two most well known from Schumacher, ie Adelaide and Jerez is that in both them cases Schumacher looked like a desperate man. His actions looked desperate and a result of panic. I cant comment about Senna as I can not by memory remember his races. I only know through books and docs but I dont think his moves were anything of the sort. With the Suzuka start line incident everyone knew it was going to happen, he said he'd do it, so why expect anything else? His actions were based on principle that day. Right or wrong is a matter of opinion. Its the feeling I get from Senna after reading about him, he did things because he believed he could and it was the right thing to do for him.

edit - just to be clear. I would not like to see my favourite go wheel-to-wheel with either of them. Unfortunatly that was the case with Hill. My opinion because of that is slightly (understatment!) biased towards saying I though Michael was the worse. That and his various incidents with Montoya. Imola 04 and Sepang just examples. BUT I do believe in each of those cases Senna would not have reacted much different.

---

"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2009 04:53PM by chet.

I've always thought the 1994 Hill incident is made to seem much worse than it really was, of course Schumi turned in on Hill, but after what had happened that year, with all the bans, I don't blame him, I would perhaps of even done the same thing, but it was certainly the actions of a man under huge pressure as you say Chet

Really the two of them should never have been in that position by that point in the season, no offence to Hill but he only beat Schumacher once on track at Suzuka

Schumacher realistically without the bans and DQs could have won the championship by Jerez, maybe even Monza

The FIA did almost everything in it's power to rob Schumacher of that title, it would of been wrong if Hill had walked way with it, even though he had performed brilliantly after the loss of Senna

With Senna in 1990 he as far as I know he had one decision go against him, with the grid thing and then was willing to ram Prost at high speed, and then openly admitted it

---

Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

chet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The one difference I seemed to have noticed
> between Senna's incidents and the two most well
> known from Schumacher, ie Adelaide and Jerez is
> that in both them cases Schumacher looked like a
> desperate man. His actions looked desperate and a
> result of panic. I cant comment about Senna as I
> can not by memory remember his races. I only know
> through books and docs but I dont think his moves
> were anything of the sort. With the Suzuka start
> line incident everyone knew it was going to
> happen, he said he'd do it, so why expect anything
> else? His actions were based on principle that
> day. Right or wrong is a matter of opinion. Its
> the feeling I get from Senna after reading about
> him, he did things because he believed he could
> and it was the right thing to do for him.
>
> edit - just to be clear. I would not like to see
> my favourite go wheel-to-wheel with either of
> them. Unfortunatly that was the case with Hill. My
> opinion because of that is slightly
> (understatment!) biased towards saying I though
> Michael was the worse. That and his various
> incidents with Montoya. Imola 04 and Sepang just
> examples. BUT I do believe in each of those cases
> Senna would not have reacted much different.

what happened in imola 04? do you mean when ms dumped montoya on the outside of one of the corners? if so ms was 100% in the right. montoya ran out of road. brundle said as much on commentary.

I.Tz No Problem
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danm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps schummi wasn't as quick on the onset as
> ferrari would have hoped. I still think the
> cancellation is a big media pull.
>
> Start the hype, see if he would be missed. He is.
>
> Get him in the car, find out he really is rusty.
> Without trial of the new car, he needs to get fit
> AND be able to drive a modified 07/08 machine.
>
> So, announce schummi is unfit to drive, que big
> disappointment all round.
>
> Then, out of nowhere, super schummi suddenly
> spends the few extra weeks he needs upping his
> fitness, and getting that all important mileage
> under him with new car handling.
>
> Makes for a great media pull, schummi from zero to
> hero, and possibly doing a one off only... say
> Spa, the origins and ending of his career, or
> maybe a one off for Monza.
>
> I bet you anything he will race at least one!
>
> He is just buying time and toying.

I think you could be correct dan, at least based on the most recent article about it

""Michael can now work in peace and without pressure on his fitness. Then we'll see," Weber added.

Schumacher's doctor Johannes Peil agrees that "test drives away from the public" would be a good next step should the German recover from his injuries enough to put a return back on the agenda." [en.f1-live.com]

---

X (@ed24f1)

Yeah, I think that looks like a likely call Dan, given the story Schueyfan posted, looks like you'll probably be right.

But I doubt Schumacher will be the one doing a "one-off" if it's being orchestrated, I can easily see Schumacher driving in Belgium AND Italy, and possibly Japan too with Badoer possibly driving at Valencia (and MAYBE Singapore) at most. Depends if the FIA will allow them to keep swapping their drivers like that.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2009 11:34PM by Team CLR.

rapid_f1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what happened in imola 04? do you mean when ms
> dumped montoya on the outside of one of the
> corners? if so ms was 100% in the right. montoya
> ran out of road. brundle said as much on
> commentary.


Someone in the forum even had a sig with the T-cam from that part. Schumi had the car straight, Montoya on the curb on the side and Schumi's steering wheel turned right.

In general: Be blind and ignorant to whatever you want just don't treat it as divine truth.

The FIA did almost everything in it's power to rob Schumacher of that title, it would of been wrong if Hill had walked way with it, even though he had performed brilliantly after the loss of Senna

That's entirely true, however the harsh banning of Schumacher, is, in my mind, mitigated somewhat by the traction control allegations that have followed Benetton since. There's no question that the accident is over-stated though because it was Hill that was involved, Schumacher's move was more the move of a desperate man, as chet says, the move of a man who faced with a sudden decision, found one outcome too unpalatable. Same with the Villeneuve clash. Senna's premeditated, high speed collision with Prost I find harder to forgive.

You'd suck anyones cock, fat man.

The FIA did almost everything in it's power to rob Schumacher of that title, it would of been wrong if Hill had walked way with it, even though he had performed brilliantly after the loss of Senna

BS of the highest order. The FIA did everything they could to give Schumacher the title.

In the French GP the car was found to contain illegal software, in direct violation of the regulations. Was anything done? Nope! They got away with it.

In Silverstone Schumacher passed Hill on the formation lap. Twice! He then ignored a black flag. He was only given a suspended ban for this.

In Germany the fuel filling equipment was found to be illegal, and had the filters removed. Were they punished? Nope.

In Belgium, Schumachers car is found to have ahd the plank worn too much. The excuse Benetton used of the car spinning over a kerb didn't make sense give the location of the wearing, and finally he was banned for coming events.

After the ban you'd think that Schumacher would have been under the watchful eyes of the FIA, but apparently not. He was still allowed to take out Damon to win the title without punishment.

1994 is one of the darkest years in F1. Not just for the death of Senna and Roland, but because the entire championship was tainted by Benetton and Schumachers blatant disregard for regulations, flat out cheating, and how despite numerous serious violations of safety and technical regulations, he was still allowed to win the title in such a manner.

As for Imola 2004, Montoya sums it up perfectly. You either have to be blind or stupid to not see him -



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That's a brilliant press conference. :D

Just one small correction Dave. He was given a 2 race ban for ignoring the black flag at Silverstone. Benetton appealed it and that's why the punishment was delayed. It wasn't a suspended ban.*

At Spa he just lost his win.



I've defended Schumachers move on Hill at Adelaide since it happened. He intended to take Hill out, but the worst thing he did was swerve across the track before the corner, breaking the blocking rule (something Hill himself did far worse than Schumacher in Montreal 4 years later). When Schumacher turned in, he was fully entitled to do so. Hill took a lunge, and Schumacher grabbed it with both hands. As far as I'm aware, Hill was the only one at fault for that particular coming together - you don't dive down the inside when someone is already turning in.

Like I said, I believe Schumacher knew full well that if he put his car in that position, then Hill might just play into his hands. Hill just couldn't resist it.

Schumacher might have been acting out of desperation, but Hill was equally.


* In the world of wackyness, Mansell also ignored black flags at Estoril in 1989. He continued to race and took Senna out of the race in a collision between the 2 of them. As far as I remember, he got no punishment at all.

Gav, wasnt Schumachers car damaged though?? And Hill was inside of Schumacher when Schumacher decided to turn in... Its an endless debate and in the end Hill lost out.

Nice post Dave :p

What annoyed me about that conference is that Schumy appeared to be out-right lying or as Jaun said blind or stupid (and he was neither any of them!). But if there ever was an incident which really really really annoyed me to the point when I questioned how stupid are the people running and governing our sport it had to be Sepang. Again in Jaun's words whoever made the call for a drive through had to be blind or stupid!

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL