Ferrari to adopt Bull-style exhaust system

A feature of Ferrari's heavily-upgraded F10 car in Valencia next weekend will reportedly be Red Bull-style exhausts.

Rival teams initially thought an illegal ride-height control system was the secret of the RB6's speed, but it is now believed that the layout of the rear of the car - including low-mounted exhausts and pull-rod suspension - is the basis of its success. Spain's AS newspaper reports that the updated F10 will be between three and four tenths per lap quicker than the basic specification raced in Turkey and Canada. The report also said the change represents a fundamentally new aerodynamic direction for the car, opening up a new avenue for subsequent development.

"The most important improvement in Valencia is not what we achieve there, but the way it opens up developments to be stronger for the remainder of the season," Fernando Alonso confirmed.

See full article here



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2010 01:28AM by mortal.

Three to four tenths? That's freakishly quick...I hope McLaren's updates can match 'em.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2010 09:14AM by WestPunx.

It won't suddenly give them 3-4 tenths. They'll need to hone the rest of the car to suit, so if that is indeed what it can potentially bring, then it will likely happen over the coming races.

all the cars will have updates and redbull will bring a working f-duct so ferrari doesnt maybe even gain time to the leaders with this update, mclaren will bring huge update to the silverstone.seems like ferrari these days can't build/develop anything by them self...all is copied on their cars

vesuvius Wrote:
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> all the cars will have updates and redbull will
> bring a working f-duct so ferrari doesnt maybe
> even gain time to the leaders with this update,
> mclaren will bring huge update to the
> silverstone.seems like ferrari these days can't
> build/develop anything by them self...all is
> copied on their cars

yep...

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My GPGSL Career

Right, why dont teams come up with their own, groundbreaking ideas instead of copying others?

Now I genuinely have no idea whether it's legal or not, or just plain stupid, but could you have the exhaust under the car so it expels gases out towards the diffuser? Again, I dont know whether its feasible, I dont have a degree in mechanical engineering or aerodynamics. Yet.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

Incident 2k9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Right, why dont teams come up with their own,
> groundbreaking ideas instead of copying others?
>
> Now I genuinely have no idea whether it's legal or
> not, or just plain stupid, but could you have the
> exhaust under the car so it expels gases out
> towards the diffuser? Again, I dont know whether
> its feasible, I dont have a degree in mechanical
> engineering or aerodynamics. Yet.

i should get it into 3 years.maybe

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My GPGSL Career

senna9194 Wrote:
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> i should get it into 3 years.maybe


I'd quite like to do something like them in uni. I've gotta do my a-levels first though...

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

Incident 2k9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> senna9194 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > i should get it into 3 years.maybe
>
>
> I'd quite like to do something like them in uni.
> I've gotta do my a-levels first though...


i've just finished 2 years of high school

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My GPGSL Career

Quote
Incident_2k9
Now I genuinely have no idea whether it's legal or not, or just plain stupid, but could you have the exhaust under the car so it expels gases out towards the diffuser?

That's most of the idea behind the low exhausts - it outputs through the diffuser, adding to the downforce without significant loss of straight-line speed. Providing the rear bodywork is lower it should also provide the opportunity to make the air flow to the rear wing cleaner, making it more efficient.

Presumably the Ferrari design will be a compromise given that their car isn't designed with it in mind, more as an afterthought, much like most of the multiple deck diffusers from 2009 - notably RBR ironically.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2010 09:59PM by gav.

The genius about RedBull's design is that it doesnt directly expell the exhaust gases into the main diffuser, but instead at each end. From what ive read/understand it very much reduces the throttle/downforce sensitivity but perhaps the biggest gain being the way the exhaust gasses into the diffuser interact with the rear wheel wake which in turns makes the diffuser far more efficient. It's all very careful flow mixing and as with the F-duct I cant imagine teams getting it redbull efficient in one go. Im especially interested to see Mclarens solution given how different their diffuser design is.

Williams are also known to be developing toward this type of exhaust solution too, both teams hope to debut the new body work at Silverstone, though apparently Mclaren's is much more of an all round new car and the Williams just an upgrade.

Given Valencia isnt a very aero-dependent track and is mainly a point and squirt track I dont think we will see Ferrari's 3-4tenths as clear as we might at Silverstone, by which time Mclaren will have their upgrade.

This weekend should be as tight as ever, before FP you have to say the track tends towards Mclaren, but with Ferrari bringing an update, and RedBull bringing their F-Duct aswell as a huge update it should be as close as ever. Turkey and Canada were close in terms of pace, Valencia should be just as close! Im tempted to say Lewis will make it 3 in a row but I think Alonso could pull it out the bag.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

I don't know if you can see the difference but here is a picture of the "F10b"



And here is the original story.

Incident 2k9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Right, why dont teams come up with their own,
> groundbreaking ideas instead of copying others?
>
> Now I genuinely have no idea whether it's legal or
> not, or just plain stupid, but could you have the
> exhaust under the car so it expels gases out
> towards the diffuser? Again, I dont know whether
> its feasible, I dont have a degree in mechanical
> engineering or aerodynamics. Yet.

This is within the regulations, and has actually been used on-and-off since the late 80s - as Gav pointed out, it adds downforce without a drag penalty, simply by speeding up the airflow under the back of the car. The trade-off is that the airflow is reduced dramatically when the driver comes off the throttle, which can unsettle the car in corners - this is suspected to be the reason why Ferrari pioneered the top-exit exhausts in the first place.

Typically, i can't find a picture of an older F1 car to show this setup

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It will be interesting to see how Ferrari get on with this, its a whole new rear end to the car and last year when teams changed the backs of their cars it took a while to adapt.

I dont think Ferrari will see the benefit until Silverstone anyway simply due to the nature of the Valencia track.

Mclaren will have theirs in place for Silverstone.

[www.autosport.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2010 02:35PM by marcl.

alexf1man Wrote:
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> I don't know if you can see the difference but
> here is a picture of the "F10b"

Looks like there's some baby Ferrari's on the way. Ferrambino's?

Onboard helmet camera of alonso testing

I love this view, really wish they have it in races

[www.ferrari.com]

They can't because of the safety issue: what if they crash and the camera goes through the helmet?

Coulthard had it in Interlagos in 2008 didn't he?

Incident 2k9 Wrote:
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> Right, why dont teams come up with their own,
> groundbreaking ideas instead of copying others?

Yeah, how dare Red Bull copy a design base from the early 80s Renault/Williams teams? The nerve!

[www.jamesallenonf1.com] - latest tech article explains it in more detail rather than just me repeating everything.

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Yeah Coulthard used it in his last race in free practice in Brasil 2008.