why is Massa such an unlikable fellow?
Posted by SachaAohen
I just noticed while contemplating on who I like and who I dislike, that massa is first on my list
when I wish for that sudden mechanical failure or that silly spin that would make him look ridicolous an
put him out of the race, or at least at the very back of the pack.
Why is that? What is so annoying about that guy?
I'm trying to find the answer and it might be that the guy simply hasnt any natural talent, but he tries
hard. Isn't it good. I mean talent is a god given gift, but trying hard is what should be appreciated.
Are we loving Kimi because of his lazyness and natural gift?
Another "untalented" fellow who was trying hard was Damon Hill, but we (well majority) all loved him?
Tell me your opinions.
(Bruninho, feel free to skip this topic
)
when I wish for that sudden mechanical failure or that silly spin that would make him look ridicolous an
put him out of the race, or at least at the very back of the pack.
Why is that? What is so annoying about that guy?
I'm trying to find the answer and it might be that the guy simply hasnt any natural talent, but he tries
hard. Isn't it good. I mean talent is a god given gift, but trying hard is what should be appreciated.
Are we loving Kimi because of his lazyness and natural gift?
Another "untalented" fellow who was trying hard was Damon Hill, but we (well majority) all loved him?
Tell me your opinions.
(Bruninho, feel free to skip this topic
)For me it was because he always seemed the weakest of the drivers in the top 3 teams, always prone to make errors.
But recently he has drove some impeccable races, without making a mistake at all.
I would usually feel happy at seeing a Ferrari driver blow up with 3 laps remaining, but in Hungary I actually felt genuinely gutted for him, as his race was faultless from start to nearly finish.
_______________________________________________________________________
But recently he has drove some impeccable races, without making a mistake at all.
I would usually feel happy at seeing a Ferrari driver blow up with 3 laps remaining, but in Hungary I actually felt genuinely gutted for him, as his race was faultless from start to nearly finish.
_______________________________________________________________________
IMO Massa is one of the most likeable drivers on the grid, he is just as friendly as Rubens (whos probably about as friendly as Jesus!!!!!).
One thing that always stands out for me is how he is always willing to talk to ITV when often alot of drivers snub Brundle. Ok they are trying to concentrate but still you cna rely on Massa to give an interview.
I dont think ive ever seen Massa push people away after say an accident or something unlike Kimi and co.
He is no longer trying too hard, he no longer has to! He has dominated these last two races, yes dominated and made it look easy! Infact, i'd be close to saying it was easy for him.
He has had his occasions of being a n0b sometime, ie Monza06 and a few incidents where he's blatenly blamed others when the case maybe it was his fault. But then again are not most racing drivers like that. ie JB blamed DC for the Bahrain incident when quite clearly JB went for a gap that wasnt there. Massa has had a few occasions like that, and he has caused some silly accidents so have most people.
As a fan looking for an autograph after Rubens the one person imo I think would gaurantee me time to talk to them and get an autograph would be Massa.
edit - about kimi, not too sure why alot of people like him. he seems abit of a tw4t in real life nad yet has a HUGE fanbase. he has alot of natural talent and at times he is just astonoshing to watch! But then I do feel his talent is being wasted because of that general feeling that he is not doing all he could, or all that he should be doing. But then thats our opinion of him, just seems lazy, but then he could be and probably is doing as much work as the rest.
edit again - Kimi's like those people at school who dont have to work hard to get good results. He can just walk into an exam with minimal revision and get a good grade when someone else has to work really really hard. Well thats what I think, and ill tell you, I hate those people
! :p
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2008 01:19PM by chet.
One thing that always stands out for me is how he is always willing to talk to ITV when often alot of drivers snub Brundle. Ok they are trying to concentrate but still you cna rely on Massa to give an interview.
I dont think ive ever seen Massa push people away after say an accident or something unlike Kimi and co.
He is no longer trying too hard, he no longer has to! He has dominated these last two races, yes dominated and made it look easy! Infact, i'd be close to saying it was easy for him.
He has had his occasions of being a n0b sometime, ie Monza06 and a few incidents where he's blatenly blamed others when the case maybe it was his fault. But then again are not most racing drivers like that. ie JB blamed DC for the Bahrain incident when quite clearly JB went for a gap that wasnt there. Massa has had a few occasions like that, and he has caused some silly accidents so have most people.
As a fan looking for an autograph after Rubens the one person imo I think would gaurantee me time to talk to them and get an autograph would be Massa.
edit - about kimi, not too sure why alot of people like him. he seems abit of a tw4t in real life nad yet has a HUGE fanbase. he has alot of natural talent and at times he is just astonoshing to watch! But then I do feel his talent is being wasted because of that general feeling that he is not doing all he could, or all that he should be doing. But then thats our opinion of him, just seems lazy, but then he could be and probably is doing as much work as the rest.
edit again - Kimi's like those people at school who dont have to work hard to get good results. He can just walk into an exam with minimal revision and get a good grade when someone else has to work really really hard. Well thats what I think, and ill tell you, I hate those people
! :p"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2008 01:19PM by chet.
I was about to come in to post pretty much the exact same thing that Chet said. Agreed with you completely, even about Kimi!
I've always liked Massa since I started watching F1 in 2002, and recently I can't help but like him even more since others are starting to throw a wobbly over him.
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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2008 01:36PM by flat tyre.
I've always liked Massa since I started watching F1 in 2002, and recently I can't help but like him even more since others are starting to throw a wobbly over him.
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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2008 01:36PM by flat tyre.
yes, i also agree with chet. from what i've seen, massa seems very likeable, and that is both from my experiences at the track and on TV/Internet.
X (@ed24f1)
X (@ed24f1)
He's got one of those faces you want to punch. Hard. Other than that, by all accounts, he's one of the nicest guys in the paddock.
I've never disliked him, but I've never been a fan either. He'd never be someone high up on my list if I was running a team. But this season, with a couple of exceptions, he's been excellent. Of the drivers in the top teams, his season has easily been the best, with far fewer races with mistakes (chose my words carefully there after Silverstone). As things stand, he's the guy who deserves the title the most of those 4 drivers. He'll never be a great, but he's having a great season. People were predicting he'd fall apart this year without traction control, but it's only really in the rain he's struggled, and clearly some of that is in the car given how Kimi's been in the rain too.
He's easy to dislike because of the way he goes about driving a car. Brundle said it nicely in Valenica - he'll never take the same line through a corner 3 laps in a row. He must frustrate his engineers no end. But it's working for him at the moment. He's not a hard charger, and he'll never do a Kimi and win from P17 or something, but then neither have many world champions.
chet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He is no longer trying too hard, he no longer has
> to! He has dominated these last two races, yes
> dominated and made it look easy! Infact, i'd be
> close to saying it was easy for him.
I don't agree with that. I think he's been awesome those last few races. In Hungary, I'm not even sure he had the fastest car. I was massively impressed, and it's not often I've said that about Massa.
sunny1304 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and still i think massa is the weakest driver of
> the top 3 teams because what he is doing now with
> the help of MSC...
>
> i believe massa would never reach here unless MSC
> taught massa his secrets....
Disagree strongly. Schumacher is a confidence thing for Massa. Other than when they were teammates, when Schumacher probably taught Massa a few things about technical approach, you can't teach a bad driver how to drive well. He'll point out a few things here and there, but mainly I think it's a mental thing.
I've never disliked him, but I've never been a fan either. He'd never be someone high up on my list if I was running a team. But this season, with a couple of exceptions, he's been excellent. Of the drivers in the top teams, his season has easily been the best, with far fewer races with mistakes (chose my words carefully there after Silverstone). As things stand, he's the guy who deserves the title the most of those 4 drivers. He'll never be a great, but he's having a great season. People were predicting he'd fall apart this year without traction control, but it's only really in the rain he's struggled, and clearly some of that is in the car given how Kimi's been in the rain too.
He's easy to dislike because of the way he goes about driving a car. Brundle said it nicely in Valenica - he'll never take the same line through a corner 3 laps in a row. He must frustrate his engineers no end. But it's working for him at the moment. He's not a hard charger, and he'll never do a Kimi and win from P17 or something, but then neither have many world champions.
chet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He is no longer trying too hard, he no longer has
> to! He has dominated these last two races, yes
> dominated and made it look easy! Infact, i'd be
> close to saying it was easy for him.
I don't agree with that. I think he's been awesome those last few races. In Hungary, I'm not even sure he had the fastest car. I was massively impressed, and it's not often I've said that about Massa.
sunny1304 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and still i think massa is the weakest driver of
> the top 3 teams because what he is doing now with
> the help of MSC...
>
> i believe massa would never reach here unless MSC
> taught massa his secrets....
Disagree strongly. Schumacher is a confidence thing for Massa. Other than when they were teammates, when Schumacher probably taught Massa a few things about technical approach, you can't teach a bad driver how to drive well. He'll point out a few things here and there, but mainly I think it's a mental thing.
I'm all for Massa winning the championship this year (to the horror of all my english friends!), he sounds like a great fun guy to know and he's been the most consistent this year and has had some outstanding performances. I wasn't too pleased with how he kept moaning about car failures last year, but he's shown what he can do in a reliable car this year.
I do hate him, and I expect that he will never be WC. Reasons?
1) Served as the #2 for a cheater in 2006. It was enough reason for me to dislike him. Demonstrates lack of will to win and lack of honesty.
2) He is an arrogant prick when hes here in Brazil. Like the other in a Honda, hes just looking friendly to the media to make such an image for the press. Demonstrates a false guy.
3) Lack of talent. He cannot drive in a wet race, yet alone drive a F1 car without Traction Control. A WC driver must be a complete all-round driver: fast, mentally strong, capable of smart and quick thinking on-track to take advantage of the circumstances, excellent wet-weather driving and ability to drive any car no matter how good or bad it is.
4) Never accepts when ppl blames him when something goes wrong - and when it happens, ITS HIS OWN FAULT, not OTHERS FAULT! The same with the Honda driver. They prefer to blame the car, the brakes, the track, the drivers, the marshalls, the world - but I HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM BLAMING THEMSELVES FOR AN ERROR! It demonstrates that they arent humble enough to admit their errors when they do. Both also keep complaining, moaning and never get to work to sort out their problems.
5) Use of dirty tactics that he had learned with the cheater( vs Alonso @ Barcelona'07, vs Alonso @ Nurburgring'07, vs Kubica @ Fuji'07 and vs DC @ Melbourne'08 ). Again, lack of racing ethics.
6) Alonso and Kubica are aggressive, Jenson and Kimi are smooth, these are interesting things to watch. But he has nothing special to watch. Its just the car, give him a Honda and he will be nowhere near the current Honda drivers. Lacks the "entertaining factor".
7) How can the cheater be a confidence thing to him. He said that he only retired because he "didnt wanted to see his friend unemployed". How it helps his confidence? He needs the things to be working well for him to deliver. When the things are against him, he can't go against them and deliver. Lacks the ability to fight these things.
8) The TV Globo commentator praises him in the same way as James Allen does with Lewis. How can you like this guy with a such commentary?
I do like Kimi (and I am cheering for him) and I do understand what chet means with his example of an exam. I am like these people, so he will probably hate me!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2008 05:16PM by Bruninho.
1) Served as the #2 for a cheater in 2006. It was enough reason for me to dislike him. Demonstrates lack of will to win and lack of honesty.
2) He is an arrogant prick when hes here in Brazil. Like the other in a Honda, hes just looking friendly to the media to make such an image for the press. Demonstrates a false guy.
3) Lack of talent. He cannot drive in a wet race, yet alone drive a F1 car without Traction Control. A WC driver must be a complete all-round driver: fast, mentally strong, capable of smart and quick thinking on-track to take advantage of the circumstances, excellent wet-weather driving and ability to drive any car no matter how good or bad it is.
4) Never accepts when ppl blames him when something goes wrong - and when it happens, ITS HIS OWN FAULT, not OTHERS FAULT! The same with the Honda driver. They prefer to blame the car, the brakes, the track, the drivers, the marshalls, the world - but I HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM BLAMING THEMSELVES FOR AN ERROR! It demonstrates that they arent humble enough to admit their errors when they do. Both also keep complaining, moaning and never get to work to sort out their problems.
5) Use of dirty tactics that he had learned with the cheater( vs Alonso @ Barcelona'07, vs Alonso @ Nurburgring'07, vs Kubica @ Fuji'07 and vs DC @ Melbourne'08 ). Again, lack of racing ethics.
6) Alonso and Kubica are aggressive, Jenson and Kimi are smooth, these are interesting things to watch. But he has nothing special to watch. Its just the car, give him a Honda and he will be nowhere near the current Honda drivers. Lacks the "entertaining factor".
7) How can the cheater be a confidence thing to him. He said that he only retired because he "didnt wanted to see his friend unemployed". How it helps his confidence? He needs the things to be working well for him to deliver. When the things are against him, he can't go against them and deliver. Lacks the ability to fight these things.
8) The TV Globo commentator praises him in the same way as James Allen does with Lewis. How can you like this guy with a such commentary?
I do like Kimi (and I am cheering for him) and I do understand what chet means with his example of an exam. I am like these people, so he will probably hate me!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2008 05:16PM by Bruninho.
@Bruninho; who do you actually mean?
________________________________________
Some say... he's even smaller than 20kb.
And some say... he's so offensive he could get you into trouble...
The only thing we know is that he's called...
THE SIG
Felipe Massa, World Champion 15:34:11pm- 15:34:21pm.
________________________________________
Some say... he's even smaller than 20kb.
And some say... he's so offensive he could get you into trouble...
The only thing we know is that he's called...
THE SIG
Felipe Massa, World Champion 15:34:11pm- 15:34:21pm.
Bruno a lack of racing ethics?? Im sorry but your a huge fan of Senna right? Well I dont see any different in Senna than I do Massa in terms of those incidents you mentioned or any other aggressive driver for example, Alonso certainly would have done the same. At those times he was agressive and relantless, exactly what Massa needed and needs to be.
Served as the #2 for a cheater in 2006. It was enough reason for me to dislike him. Demonstrates lack of will to win and lack of honesty.
Lack of will to win?
He went to Ferrari, the most successful team in F1 history. Is that because there was a lack of will to win?? Or because Ferrari gave him the best chance to win. Learn of the best in the best team. What more could a hopeful championship contender of the future want?? Senna paired up with Prost because he knew he was the best and in the best team. So Senna levelled things out a little, to get a good idea of how good he (Senna) really is. In many ways its similar to Massa at Ferrari.
I dont like how Rubens was at Ferrari for so long, it was his best chance to get good results, but I personally think he was held back at Ferrari, I dont think we saw Rubens at his best, there were odd occasions where he was simply mind blowingly quick and no-one stood a chance but other than that Ferrari held him back imo. With Massa its not the same, Ferrari encouraged him alot more because they rated him as a good replacement of Michael. wheras Rubens was simply a #2 and nothing else. Not by choice, but because Ferrari wanted it that way.
Some of the other points I cant argue because I dont really know, but these points ive bought up dont show Massa as someone without talent. btw sorry for Senna comparisons, I am not directly comparing the two, just using Senna as an example.
edit - Oh, and I dont hate you, i dont know you :p
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2008 06:10PM by chet.
Served as the #2 for a cheater in 2006. It was enough reason for me to dislike him. Demonstrates lack of will to win and lack of honesty.
Lack of will to win?
He went to Ferrari, the most successful team in F1 history. Is that because there was a lack of will to win?? Or because Ferrari gave him the best chance to win. Learn of the best in the best team. What more could a hopeful championship contender of the future want?? Senna paired up with Prost because he knew he was the best and in the best team. So Senna levelled things out a little, to get a good idea of how good he (Senna) really is. In many ways its similar to Massa at Ferrari.
I dont like how Rubens was at Ferrari for so long, it was his best chance to get good results, but I personally think he was held back at Ferrari, I dont think we saw Rubens at his best, there were odd occasions where he was simply mind blowingly quick and no-one stood a chance but other than that Ferrari held him back imo. With Massa its not the same, Ferrari encouraged him alot more because they rated him as a good replacement of Michael. wheras Rubens was simply a #2 and nothing else. Not by choice, but because Ferrari wanted it that way.
Some of the other points I cant argue because I dont really know, but these points ive bought up dont show Massa as someone without talent. btw sorry for Senna comparisons, I am not directly comparing the two, just using Senna as an example.
edit - Oh, and I dont hate you, i dont know you :p
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2008 06:10PM by chet.
chet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bruno a lack of racing ethics?? Im sorry but your
> a huge fan of Senna right? Well I dont see any
> different in Senna than I do Massa in terms of
> those incidents you mentioned or any other
> aggressive driver for example, Alonso certainly
> would have done the same. At those times he was
> agressive and relantless, exactly what Massa
> needed and needs to be.
>
The thing with Senna is, he did it only once (1990) and it was for revenge (1989). He had the right to do it, he was robbed in the previous year in the same way. Thats how things works, you get what you deserve for doing such tactics - or at least for me, as I am a... "vengeful" person, if its the correct word.
If he were such a dirty driver, he'd have tried to put Mansell out in every chance in 1992, wouldnt he? Afterall, the Williams was much more powerful. But no, he raced against him instead of crashing him.
While the ferrari #2 and the retired cheater did these things without a single good reason for it. They just couldnt accept losing it to someone who drove a season better than them. They also resorted to these tactics more than one time where as Senna did it only once and for revenge.
> Served as the #2 for a cheater in 2006. It was
> enough reason for me to dislike him. Demonstrates
> lack of will to win and lack of honesty.
>
> Lack of will to win?
>
> He went to Ferrari, the most successful team in F1
> history. Is that because there was a lack of will
> to win?? Or because Ferrari gave him the best
> chance to win. Learn of the best in the best team.
> What more could a hopeful championship contender
> of the future want?? Senna paired up with Prost
> because he knew he was the best and in the best
> team. So Senna levelled things out a little, to
> get a good idea of how good he (Senna) really is.
> In many ways its similar to Massa at Ferrari.
ROFL The Ferrari #2 doesnt even deserve to wear Senna's shoes yet alone to be compared to him. You forgot that Senna raced against Prost in equal terms.
The Ferrari #2 didnt raced the cheater for the title, he played the #2 role. theres a big difference and that difference is the biggest reason for why I hate him.
>
> I dont like how Rubens was at Ferrari for so long,
> it was his best chance to get good results, but I
> personally think he was held back at Ferrari, I
> dont think we saw Rubens at his best, there were
> odd occasions where he was simply mind blowingly
> quick and no-one stood a chance but other than
> that Ferrari held him back imo. With Massa its not
> the same, Ferrari encouraged him alot more because
> they rated him as a good replacement of Michael.
> wheras Rubens was simply a #2 and nothing else.
> Not by choice, but because Ferrari wanted it that
> way.
>
had they fought against that, proved that they deserved to race against him in equal terms, i wouldnt hate them so much, but no they just accepted it like cowards. The cheater was the most overrated driver in F1 history - he only won these titles protected by a #1 status behind his team. Had he raced in a team with equal terms, he would never have won 7 titles. The Honda #17 could have beaten him easily had Ferrari allowed him to race - and he didnt fought for that chance.
> Some of the other points I cant argue because I
> dont really know, but these points ive bought up
> dont show Massa as someone without talent. btw
> sorry for Senna comparisons, I am not directly
> comparing the two, just using Senna as an
> example.
>
> edit - Oh, and I dont hate you, i dont know you :p
Oh well now you can ignore the first setence of the 2nd answer...
I can say for sure that he will never be world champion - hes just an untalented average arrogant driver in a good car.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2008 06:58PM by Bruninho.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bruno a lack of racing ethics?? Im sorry but your
> a huge fan of Senna right? Well I dont see any
> different in Senna than I do Massa in terms of
> those incidents you mentioned or any other
> aggressive driver for example, Alonso certainly
> would have done the same. At those times he was
> agressive and relantless, exactly what Massa
> needed and needs to be.
>
The thing with Senna is, he did it only once (1990) and it was for revenge (1989). He had the right to do it, he was robbed in the previous year in the same way. Thats how things works, you get what you deserve for doing such tactics - or at least for me, as I am a... "vengeful" person, if its the correct word.
If he were such a dirty driver, he'd have tried to put Mansell out in every chance in 1992, wouldnt he? Afterall, the Williams was much more powerful. But no, he raced against him instead of crashing him.
While the ferrari #2 and the retired cheater did these things without a single good reason for it. They just couldnt accept losing it to someone who drove a season better than them. They also resorted to these tactics more than one time where as Senna did it only once and for revenge.
> Served as the #2 for a cheater in 2006. It was
> enough reason for me to dislike him. Demonstrates
> lack of will to win and lack of honesty.
>
> Lack of will to win?
>
> He went to Ferrari, the most successful team in F1
> history. Is that because there was a lack of will
> to win?? Or because Ferrari gave him the best
> chance to win. Learn of the best in the best team.
> What more could a hopeful championship contender
> of the future want?? Senna paired up with Prost
> because he knew he was the best and in the best
> team. So Senna levelled things out a little, to
> get a good idea of how good he (Senna) really is.
> In many ways its similar to Massa at Ferrari.
ROFL The Ferrari #2 doesnt even deserve to wear Senna's shoes yet alone to be compared to him. You forgot that Senna raced against Prost in equal terms.
The Ferrari #2 didnt raced the cheater for the title, he played the #2 role. theres a big difference and that difference is the biggest reason for why I hate him.
>
> I dont like how Rubens was at Ferrari for so long,
> it was his best chance to get good results, but I
> personally think he was held back at Ferrari, I
> dont think we saw Rubens at his best, there were
> odd occasions where he was simply mind blowingly
> quick and no-one stood a chance but other than
> that Ferrari held him back imo. With Massa its not
> the same, Ferrari encouraged him alot more because
> they rated him as a good replacement of Michael.
> wheras Rubens was simply a #2 and nothing else.
> Not by choice, but because Ferrari wanted it that
> way.
>
had they fought against that, proved that they deserved to race against him in equal terms, i wouldnt hate them so much, but no they just accepted it like cowards. The cheater was the most overrated driver in F1 history - he only won these titles protected by a #1 status behind his team. Had he raced in a team with equal terms, he would never have won 7 titles. The Honda #17 could have beaten him easily had Ferrari allowed him to race - and he didnt fought for that chance.
> Some of the other points I cant argue because I
> dont really know, but these points ive bought up
> dont show Massa as someone without talent. btw
> sorry for Senna comparisons, I am not directly
> comparing the two, just using Senna as an
> example.
>
> edit - Oh, and I dont hate you, i dont know you :p
Oh well now you can ignore the first setence of the 2nd answer...
I can say for sure that he will never be world champion - hes just an untalented average arrogant driver in a good car.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2008 06:58PM by Bruninho.
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