F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?

Posted by Soutsen 
F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: December 13, 2021 04:40PM
Posted by: Soutsen
I think what we have seen is one of the worst by far decisions ever made in F1 history and the race overall by this has became one of the worst in F1 history - something like USA 05 farce and so on... Whatever's name of that new Charlie Whiting-replacer - he is a big scumbag for letting VER win just for sake of TV-ratings and so-called 'Show' that the new Liberty-Media bosses were yapping about all over the place since the 1st day they laid their hands on this sport. It is not a racing anymore - just a staged show to brag about after... Just ridiculous and getting even more and more when I think about it. Feel bad for HAM and I'm not even his fan lol

___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: December 13, 2021 04:53PM
Posted by: andrzej pilaszkiewicz
Agreed. My first thoughts copied from another topic. Yes, I am a Lewis fan. Of course Max deserved the title. But no one grants you that only because you deserved it. You simply have to prove that during a fair race. Instead we had an "americanized" F1. With new World Champion : Michael Masi. And "Let them race" is false argument; they had raced for 56-57 laps.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2021 04:57PM by andrzej pilaszkiewicz.
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: December 13, 2021 05:54PM
Posted by: ooleeeo
I agree that race director and stewards decisions have not been in the best interests of a fair play in yesterday's race.

But Mercedes also chose to be too conservative with their strategy - when they asked Lewis whether he wants medium/hard for SC intervention long before the incident happened, he said both are fine.

When Mercedes saw Max pit for fresh hard tyres, they just blindly chose to do something that left Hamilton vulnerable, and defending by saying track position would be lost if Lewis pitted.

Probably the most lame excuse that a reigning champion team gave to a their reigning champion, and they forgot that:

The Brazil spec engine arguably is an absolute beast and once Hamilton got that engine running in his car it has been a silver rocket - no second thoughts about that.

In that case, pitting him would have cost track position, but the combination of fresh tyres and a mega quick car would have easily helped him defend from Max even on that final lap. He just did not have the tyres to defend against the new softs that Max bolted on his car during the third pit stop.

Mercedes would have learnt a lesson or two about not taking things for granted and showing complacency, only a fool would write them off for challenging the title next year and onwards.

Kimi forever!
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: December 13, 2021 06:19PM
Posted by: livejackass
I think to learn a lesson, you need stability in the rules. They informed Mercedes that they would not let the stragglers overtake the leaders, a decision was made based on this. Then that changed. It is the same as a football team playing for a draw and after the game is over it is informed that there will be overtime or penalty shootouts.
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: December 13, 2021 10:32PM
Posted by: n00binio
livejackass schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think to learn a lesson, you need stability in
> the rules. They informed Mercedes that they would
> not let the stragglers overtake the leaders, a
> decision was made based on this. Then that
> changed. It is the same as a football team playing
> for a draw and after the game is over it is
> informed that there will be overtime or penalty
> shootouts.

When Mercedes decided not to pit they were expecting the lapped cars to be let through. It is worth listening to the team radio.
In the final sector Hamilton is warned about double yellows and when passing the accident he is told "safety car" and "stay out". Near the pitlane entrance Hamilton asks whether they should pit and is again told to stay out.
After half a lap he asks what the situation is. Bono tells him that Verstappen pitted as he had a free pitstop, that lapped cars would be let through and the race may not restart. This happened before any message by the race direction and was basically a correct assessment of the situation. When the "wrong" message by the race direction was communicated (that lapped cars would not be allowed to overtake) every decision was already made. This didn't change anything.

Red Bull just was in a easier situation here. They could just go for the opposite of Mercedes, there was nothing to lose. Mercedes however had to decide, what the more likely outcome would be: race ending behind the safety car or one or two laps of green flag racing. They decided for the former and I can't blame them for it. In retrospect, knowing that apparantly Masi and the teams had an agreement that races should ideally end under green flag conditions, it was quite a risky call.

I think the only real question here is, whether it was ok to accelerate the safety car procedure to satisfy the agreement regarding the race ending under green or not. Maybe a red flag and a one or 2 lap race like Baku would have been fairer but the situation didn't really warrant a red flag.

I think I have seen a lot worse decisions in F1 and having a faster car or being the faster driver over a race distance minus the last lap will never guarantee you anything. Luck just wasn't on Hamilton's side this time.



used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: December 14, 2021 03:06AM
Posted by: Soutsen
The final-lap thing was not fair in many ways because they have let only a few drivers to overtake HAM and not everyone else - just because it was too late to make so, and that decision has made VER to win easily (fresh softs vs very used hards). Maci just had no time to fulfill the normal usual procedure. The thing that has happen on the last lap HAS NEVER BEEN before - like a half of the lapped cars go by and others not, just because their race doesn't matter, I guess. This is just trash. Again - technically the race director can do everything he want to (as some folk said he can theoretically ask drivers to get out their cars and dance around if he want to and they would be forced to do so), but the normal procedure was absolutely thrown away just for sake of satisfying the casual auditory (bec everyone who have seen even a few races of the latest Pirelli era would say that VER would pass easily, and he did so). This is just sooo lame and has spoiled completely a very good season before that.

___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2021 03:07AM by Soutsen.
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: December 14, 2021 08:25PM
Posted by: TGF1Driver2
Soutsen schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The final-lap thing was not fair in many ways
> because they have let only a few drivers to
> overtake HAM and not everyone else - just because
> it was too late to make so, and that decision has
> made VER to win easily (fresh softs vs very used
> hards). Maci just had no time to fulfill the
> normal usual procedure. The thing that has happen
> on the last lap HAS NEVER BEEN before - like a
> half of the lapped cars go by and others not, just
> because their race doesn't matter, I guess. This
> is just trash. Again - technically the race
> director can do everything he want to (as some
> folk said he can theoretically ask drivers to get
> out their cars and dance around if he want to and
> they would be forced to do so), but the normal
> procedure was absolutely thrown away just for sake
> of satisfying the casual auditory (bec everyone
> who have seen even a few races of the latest
> Pirelli era would say that VER would pass easily,
> and he did so). This is just sooo lame and has
> spoiled completely a very good season before that.

Yeah. That's right. Trust me, if the won't cancel the last lap and give the Championship title to Hamilton, I will never watch a Formula One race ever again! If I want to see something corrupted I can also watch a crime movie. Really! :-( hot
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: December 16, 2021 05:39PM
Posted by: Slash
Too much drama.

My toughts:
1. Masi DID made a mistake by not letting lapped cars unlapped themselves earlier.
2. Mercedes DID made a mistake by not pitting Lewis. they have their reasons, but it was super clear initially that the race was going to end under green, there's even a radio comm between Lewis and Bono where Bono says "once lapped cars unlap themselves Max will be behind you". and Lewis replies with "with fresher tires?" "Affirmative". They were scared to death at this point, it was clear they messed up.
This was BEFORE race direction said "lapped cars will NOT be unlapped". What were they doing there?, favouring Mercedes?, why nobody mentions this?

At that point it was a clear measure in favour of Lewis/Mercedes Benz and it was for sure going to be controversial, the track was clear, what were they going to do? 5 laps behind the safety car and end under safety car with no valid reason?

This is where Masi makes the decision, let those lapped cars by and finish the race racing. As it should've been, because when the Williams crashes, had they acted accordingly, we would've got 2 laps of green.
IMHO, they were clearly favouring Mercedes/Lewis by acting slow and trying initially to finish the race under SC.

Mercedes also know they messed up, is racing, is not a parade, sometimes these factors come to play, rain, crashes, safety cars.... they had 2 chances to change tyres and didn't, they were not on "race mode", they were just waiting for the chequered.


Now as for the "i'm leaving F1, Mercedes should leave" i've seen it before many times, F1 has more history than Mercedes, fans come and go, i mean what are they going to do?, go watch Nascar? Indy?, is worse over there.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2021 05:40PM by Slash.
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: December 16, 2021 10:29PM
Posted by: Soutsen
Slash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2. Mercedes DID made a mistake by not pitting Lewis.

The race could've ended under the SC as well (and should have bec Maci had no time to fulfill the usual procedure of letting ALL the lapped car go by the leaders), so they would've lost position to VER that way

___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: December 17, 2021 04:02PM
Posted by: andrzej pilaszkiewicz
I think that a question „to pit or not to pit” (Lewis) is not the point. The real question is : did Race Director break the rules by not letting all lapped cars unlapp ?
And even if the answer is „yes, he did”, I simply don’t know what next…



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2021 04:06PM by andrzej pilaszkiewicz.
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: December 22, 2021 12:19PM
Posted by: Lumpy20
A great race. I am impressed by Louis after the event. Emotions were high and some hot words said but I think the real champ showed his true colours that day. Max drove a great race and for decades the stewards decisions will be discussed. But, although Louis lost the race and the championship, I think he won the day. Great sportsmanship between the teams after the event as well. It was good to see integrity resurface after a long absence. Next year should be very interesting.
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: December 23, 2021 08:29PM
Posted by: CRMS
>did Race Director break the rules??
YES.
1. Not letting all lapped cars unlap. There were 3? left between CS and MV.
2. Not having a clear lap before the SC came in.

Agree - And "Let them race" is false argument; they had raced for 56-57 laps. And MV couldn't get anywhere near LH.

Perhaps they need a rule for a late safety car rather like the Tour De France rule for late crashes and the race is neutralised. LH had a few cars between him and MV before the SC and the time gap. If the race restarts for the last laps with those positions and gaps maintained, then neutral.

Pure entertainment for Drive to Survive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2021 08:33PM by CRMS.
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: January 16, 2022 04:48AM
Posted by: airjimracing
The only thing I was not happy about is the slow reaction to Latifi's crash. We all want to see the Champ win it on track and NOT with a SC to the finish line. That would've been a catastrophe! I say red flag it and restart the race with 4 or 5 laps to go. Both can change tyres or not.

Hey guys, I made a summary of every driver's performance during the year, you'll know who was faster, Lewis or Max. Let me know what you think. [youtu.be]
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: February 09, 2022 08:01PM
Posted by: Soutsen
That's funny (? if there's anything funny about it) how the race director gets instructed by the Red Bull team official and does exactly what he was told to and not fullfilling the usual standart procedure...
[twitter.com]

___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: March 06, 2022 01:14PM
Posted by: jaguarcatalonia
I think it was the right thing to do, but it was done at the wrong moment.
Re: F1 2021 VER-HAM finale - your thoughts?
Date: July 24, 2022 02:56PM
Posted by: mitadumapaga
Why is no one pointing out how lame hamilton defended?

1) His engine was massively stronger than Max.
2) He got overtaken in a corner where he should NEVER allow that.
3) his tyres still had plenty of life to defend - they weren't anywhere nearly finished
4) there was no DRS

Max was in a worse position with the slower engine, worse track position, no DRS etc. Yet lewis screwwd up and as ALWAYS someone else has to take the blame for the fact Hamilton failed.
- It was Alonso in 2007,
- Ron Dennis in 2008,
- Dave Ryan in 2009,
- bad officials!! in 2011 (like now),
- poor car in 2012,
- Mercedes conspiring against him in 2016 and now Masi 2021.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Maintainer: mortal, stephan | Design: stephan, Lo2k | Moderatoren: mortal, TomMK, Noog, stephan | Downloads: Lo2k | Supported by: Atlassian Experts Berlin | Forum Rules | Policy