Do we have another top team?

yes, do we have it?

I think we do. The new sauber is a copy of F2003 GA and it will have 2004 (the same as Ferrari) Ferrari engines. FM and GF are good drivers too, so the season will be very interesting.

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not sure if sauber can keep up with the big four, but BAR and Toyota might be very fast yet. we could have 7 top teams...

and then jaguar, minardi and jordan struggling at the back with a lack of funds...



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No. Sauber arent a top team. and if they were do you honeslty belive them and Ferrari would fight together?




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

cmon Ellis , Sauber is not a Schumi-Barrichelo like partnership .... Sauber is an "independent" team ... but if you think twice , do you ever think that ferrari is going to do a 2004 car worse than 2003 ? cmon some sense in here , if they are slower 2 seconds in testing is because they are doing race times.



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Everything is acceptable to me except ... to be a Forgotten ... nothing is worse than that

Sauber are busy grooming drivers for Ferrari when Schumi retires. Sauber drive second hand Ferraris with new bits under the skin. Ferrari will be using Subers new test facility, and Sauber run at Ferraris private testing tracks. The Sauber drivers are also Ferrari test drivers.

There is ZERO chance that if Sauber and Ferrari are in the position where they must fight that Sauber would put up a fight. What happens if they did beat a Ferrari through merit? What does that look like to ferrari? Getting beat by a team with there old stuff?

Wont happen




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

2 seconds slower? Maybe a question of "black gold" - the wheels by bridgestone.

Dont think that bridgestone team will get real chance in 2004. Schumacher said nearly same in last interview (germany rtl)




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ferrari will be doing their best to get sauber into a position to take podiums and points form wiliiams and mclaren.
so ferrari basically have 4 cars running. maybe we'll see saubers at the start of the grid alot, with ferraris having a nice race setup as the race pace will be under control.

and if it gwts close between sauber and ferrari, and sauber decide to try winning, then ferrari will pull the plug - masssa, money and other stuff will return to ferrari.

ferrari will do anyhting to win and it looks like that includes buying another team to run as pacemakers.



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Tony

imho, i think that sauber could have a good chance this season. they might be able to catch up to renault but maybe not williams, mclaren and ferrari and yes it depends on the quality of the bridgestone tires - which might suffer cos bridgestone runners (except ferrari) cant test as much whereas mich runners can test alot.

i also sense in some posts on this forum, since the release of the C23, that becos of their close relationship with ferrari that there are gonna be some anti-sauber ppl around here and flame sauber as they do ferrari

ferrari will be doing their best to get sauber into a position to take podiums and points form wiliiams and mclaren.

Can you spell C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y-T-H-E-O-R-Y?

Look, I don't like Ferrai myself, but it is slowly getting stupid. Even if Ferrari and Sauber are on friendly terms doesn't mean we have 4 Ferraris on the track.

Jaguar, Ford and Minardi all have Ford/Cosworth engines. Would you say that aren't allowed to race each other?

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REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS

omg
i agree with vader!!

I agree with vader but also think ferrari are helping sauber.

Next year sauber will have the same engine and the gear box and other things and this is within the rules no problem there.

But it makes sense for ferrari to use sauber for the friday extra car and test time. Ferrari will probably make sure that they use 3 cars and different tryes to help ferrari.

But u do not see other teams doing this so is it right or wrong?

In my view its against the sport but i can see the benefits they will gain.

sauber will start ok at melbourne and then wont develop their car properly, like last year, qualified p4. fast time at valencia testing, but couple years back also set good pre season test times, lap record even and then faded during season. ferrari the cockmunchers that they are ofcourse are conspiring to use sauber as trying to get points away from michelin cars because they know their bridgestones will suck. ferrari might only be 4th beat this year competing with jag, saub and bar for points.

heathy wrote:


> ferrari might only be 4th beat this year competing with jag,
> saub and bar for points.

thats a bit unrealistic

I have to agree i think if mclaren, williams and renault get their act together they could knock ferrari down to 4th.

Williams nearly beat them last year if it was not for their slow start and driver errors they would have.

Mclaren had most of their good points scored by 1 driver again if DC had got the results as kimi did they would have been 2nd.

I know its all ifs and buts but last year came down to tyres and am sure this year will even more

As you all know, I'm a big Ferrari fan, and I hope that they will win the championship once again.

It's stupid to think that Sauber will help ferrari, because every single point counts for championship and FIA gives more money to a team that has more points at the end and for a small team like sauber that's very important.

The tyre thing: Michelin had wider tyres in the midle of the season. When the FIA forbided that tyres, MS won in Monza.

It is posible that Ferrari will be beaten by McLaren and Williams, but Renault has many things to do to their engines to beat Ferrari.

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Jaguar, Ford and Minardi all have Ford/Cosworth engines. Would you say that aren't allowed to race each other?

Do Minardi run Jaguar chassis? And gearboxs? And Rear Susnepsion? And allow Jaguar to use there windtunnel? And have there drivers testing Jaguars?




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps

2 seconds slower? Maybe a question of "black gold" - the wheels by bridgestone.

Dont think that bridgestone team will get real chance in 2004.)

except that sauber went within 6 tenths of the lap record set by the MP4-19 on its second day of testing (I think at Valencia) those bridgestones aint working so bad for sauber are they?

Well said, Vader. I find it quite amusing how people treat Sauber as Ferrari B-team. They're not, for crying out loud! Sauber pay for their engines and gearbox, they're not donated to them - and now they're even offering use of their wind-tunnel to Ferrari. Ferrari have no right to ask Sauber to move over in a race - they never have done and they never will.




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you're totally right

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not so much C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y-T-H-E-O-R-Y, as b-u-s-i-n-e-s-s-d-e-a-l.
on the surface it looks like sauber and ferrari have a close relationship (c23, wind tunnel, 8? years together etc) so its only natural that they'd help each other.
the two teams have different goals (to win for ferrari, and for sauber to get 4th) so theirs no direct conflict.
if saubers wind tunnel puts ferraris nose ahead of williams and mclaren, and if saubers 'car parts' can get podiums (and take points from williams and mclaren) then they both win.

wether this partnership reaches to the track and the races we'll have to wait and see. sauber could qualify light to help set the pace.
heinz at monza might have been an indicator of the future. or maybe he had dirty mirrors??



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Tony