Official 2014 Japanese Grand Prix Thread #ForzaJules

I dont think it was too wet at the end of the race, most drivers seem to be saying it was still ok. Over the years I am sure we have all seen races in worse conditions.

Yes some were stopping for full wets but Lewis was still setting fastest laps.

I know this is going to sound totally wrong but I hope they do not take what ever changes they make too far. They need to get rid of the standing start after a safety car next year if they are going to use one after every crash.

Even if they had put the safety car out for Sutils crash someone still could have spun.

Its so bad what has happened and I do feel for everyone involved.

I think Massa's comments were partly probably because the Williams looked like an absolute handful in the wet! Bet he wishes the race never started as they were always going to go backwards.

They could look at slowing the delta times even further or use the Code 60 as I said a few times.

FIA just said Bianchi is in a critical but stable condition, so reasonable news to hear.

EDIT: There's now a video of his spin into the tractor, can be found on YouTube.

---

X (@ed24f1)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2014 03:56PM by SchueyFan.

Just seen a video on you tube from a spectator. Really horrific crash!Was so lucky he wasn't decapitated. Terrible accident!

Yes, haven't quite brought myself to watch it yet, sounds very graphic from all reports. As I suspected, came down to a matter of centimetres between life and death.

---

X (@ed24f1)

I saw it and I can tell you he's extremely lucky just to been given the chance to fight for his life. He could've easily died instantly.

The video also shows that the crane was in an inappropiate position. I mean, there's a tyre barrier there, so it is a place where drivers are prone to crashing. Regardless of it, I stil can't believe they hadn't got a proper crane, like the ones at Monaco. If they were able to remove the car without having to enter the track, none of this would've happened.

The marshalls can also consider themselves lucky. They could've been run over.

The guy who uploaded the vid is called Philip Dabrowiecki. Search at your own risk, it is pure nightmare fuel.



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps

I don't know what you mean by inappropriate position. As long as the JCB is on the other side of the tyre barrier, this could have happened. If the marshalls had 15-20 seconds more, then it have exited the area. The only thing I can see, is that you consider it inappropriate to have machinery working, unless the SC is deployed. That would be a totally new development in how races are held.

As for the video itself, if you have strong doubts about viewing it, then you probably shouldn't. The impact is very hard.

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

There were green flags although the crane wasn't back behind the tyrewall!

---

Some mods
F1 1996 | F1 2002 | F1 2007 | F1 2011 | F1 2013 | F1 2015 | F1 2018

Maybe I'm wrong and overreacting (many of us are), but I think a second spin could have been expected. Given the characteristics of the Dunlop curve and the fact that the track was soaking wet, at the very least a car could have ended on the gravel trap. However, I still think Bianchi was going quite fast for a waved yellow flag zone. Then again, there is a little tarmac runoff, which is in fact the portion of the track used to divide it for minor categories. Bianchi could've slided there, and retained his speed, even if it was yellow zone speed.

I know my perspective can be a little influenced by my own concern. Normally I tend to avoid opinions until the storm has settled down. But yes, avoiding other vehicles in the track unless a SC is sent out could be a solution. I know it could lead to excessive SC periods, but my view is that it should only be done if there's no other way to remove a car but entering a crane or other recovery vehicle.

Also, a slow speed zone (tested at Le Mans this years, quite effectively) could be tried. I think Jacques Villeneuve suggested it eariler today.



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps

The videos have all been removed

Found another link and omg he is lucky to even be alive.

Really shocked and upset by it.

In slow mo you can see him trying to get lower in the car, its so upsetting he would have known he was heading for it and there was nothing he could do.

I was expecting him to hit it side on like Sutil said I never expected him to go in nose first like that and lift the whole thing up.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2014 05:18PM by marcl.

Carlitox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe I'm wrong and overreacting (many of us are),
> but I think a second spin could have been
> expected. Given the characteristics of the Dunlop
> curve and the fact that the track was soaking wet,
> at the very least a car could have ended on the
> gravel trap. However, I still think Bianchi was
> going quite fast for a waved yellow flag zone.
> Then again, there is a little tarmac runoff, which
> is in fact the portion of the track used to divide
> it for minor categories. Bianchi could've slided
> there, and retained his speed, even if it was
> yellow zone speed.

If you inspect the telemetry data, that was broadcasted in the official F1 app, you will see that Bianchi was plotted at 213 kph, when he slid off. The top 4 frontrunners slowed between 1,4 and 0,6 seconds in that sector. That is not what double yellow means. It means be prepared to come to a full stop. Bianchi saw Sutil going off the previous lap, so what was he doing 213 kph for? My point is not to lay blame on him, but rather to point out, that the driver that takes double yellows seriously, as the rules are enforced now, is going to lose out heavily to those that don't. So the pressure to ignore the flags, and pay lip service to safety with minute lifting, is there in a massive way.

> I know my perspective can be a little influenced
> by my own concern. Normally I tend to avoid
> opinions until the storm has settled down. But
> yes, avoiding other vehicles in the track unless a
> SC is sent out could be a solution. I know it
> could lead to excessive SC periods, but my view is
> that it should only be done if there's no other
> way to remove a car but entering a crane or other
> recovery vehicle.

Perhaps. I saw an analysis of how a boom lift Monaco style would work at a corner such as 130r. It has a reach of 30 meters, but that is still close to being 20 meters short of the distance to the racing tarmac, and you would need about 4 of them to cover the tyre wall, for that corner alone. It does not seem viable.

> Also, a slow speed zone (tested at Le Mans this
> years, quite effectively) could be tried. I think
> Jacques Villeneuve suggested it eariler today.

It's an option. I don't think we can trust the drivers to come up with a solution, so if we need one, then it will have to be enforced from outside.

But having said that, I don't think we can fully eliminate freak accidents like this one. Having seen the footage, there is strong reason to believe, that Bianchi never would have hit the tyre barriers, even if the JCB was not working on that part of the track. It seems very likely that he would have slid into the gap between the barriers, and I don't think that would have panned out a whole lot better than what actually happened.

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2014 05:18PM by Morbid.

Would it have made and difference with the higher nose on the car?

The car did lift the truck and the car near enough cleared it, this could have been so much worse. Not saying its not bad but you know what I mean. Had the car not lifted the jcb then he would have died.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2014 05:58PM by marcl.

Quote
Morbid
My point is not to lay blame on him, but rather to point out, that the driver that takes double yellows seriously, as the rules are enforced now, is going to lose out heavily to those that don't.

Excellent point. I didn't know about that data, but ever since I was little I was taught that waved yellow flags mean "be very careful ahead, slow down and do not overtake". I guess nowadays they just remember the no overtake part.

Quote
Morbid
I saw an analysis of how a boom lift Monaco style would work at a corner such as 130r. It has a reach of 30 meters, but that is still close to being 20 meters short of the distance to the racing tarmac, and you would need about 4 of them to cover the tyre wall

Yeah, you're probably right. Suzuka in particular has huge runoffs and gravel traps. The 1st, Dunlop, Degner, Spoon and 130R turns are inviable for a Monaco style machine.



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps

If you haven't watched the video already then do yourself a favour and don't.

---

Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

I haven't seen the onboard footage, but I've seen the amateur trackside clip and it's a minor miracle that Jules survived even a split second let alone to be still be fighting for his life.

Looking at the scene of the accident, that was always going to be a massive impact even without the truck in the way.

And how fortuate are those marshals not to have been hit?

Ferrari2007 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you haven't watched the video already then do
> yourself a favour and don't.

+1 I regret I did.
Poor Jules.

We've all seen the state the car is in after the crash, but I was still staggered at the violence of the impact. I won't go into details for obvious reasons, but I wasn't expecting it to be quite that violent.

That he's got a chance to fight for his life at all is remarkable and if even a little credit can be given for the strength of the cars, then let's give it.

Quote
J i m
I haven't seen the onboard footage, but I've seen the amateur trackside clip and it's a minor miracle that Jules survived even a split second let alone to be still be fighting for his life.

Surely there's no onboard footage? That would have to come from the FOM and surely they wouldn't have released it with him still being critical.

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We've all seen the state the car is in after the
> crash, but I was still staggered at the violence
> of the impact. I won't go into details for
> obvious reasons, but I wasn't expecting it to be
> quite that violent.
>
> That he's got a chance to fight for his life at
> all is remarkable and if even a little credit can
> be given for the strength of the cars, then let's
> give it.
>
>
>
> I haven't seen the onboard footage, but I've seen
> the amateur trackside clip and it's a minor
> miracle that Jules survived even a split second
> let alone to be still be fighting for his life.
>
> Surely there's no onboard footage? That would
> have to come from the FOM and surely they wouldn't
> have released it with him still being critical.

Given the nature of the crash I doubt that they'd ever release it.

Horrifying accident for what it's worth. Hard to say he's lucky given that he's in Intensive Care after two operations, but the fact thatis a small mercy at least.

---

Just seen another video and they were waving the green flag before the jcb was clear, it was double yellow but was green for a good 30 seconds before he got there.

If anyone is following taki on Twitter he's posted it.

I don't think they will ever race on this track again tbh, as people have said even without the truck he was heading for a nasty crash. Plus they got the flags totally wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2014 09:53PM by marcl.

It was clear at that point. You're clear when you go past the green flag, not when you first see it. For a driver to have come close to that zone obeying the flags he'd had to do a 90 degree turn on the spot and head straight to the marshal post, which is obviously not possible.

Regardless, I doubt Bianchi would have even noticed the flags. They have the light on the dashboard and given how little light there apparently was, he'd have certainly seen it. I'm sure the drivers generally use that instead, especially in such murky conditions.

Green flag showing was completely ok according to Christian Ebner, licensed Marshall (worked e.g. at this year's Austrian GP). He describes it as follows:

When Sutil crashed, the Flag-Marshall of MP12 (Marshall-Post 12) first showed the double yellow flag, because the car stood right behind looking in the direction of traffic. Thus he had to show double yellow flag, completely correct. Then the other Marshalls went to the car, got it on the crane and went backwards. As soon as the car passed the MP12, the Marshall took the green flag because there was no danger after MP12 anymore, only right in front of it.
When Bianchi crashed, he first still shows the Green flag, then switches to Yellow because the SC came out. So he did everything completely correct.