2012 Abby Dabby Grand Prix ***SPOILERS***

Slash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perez is really starting to worry me.. he hasn't
> done absolutely anything after they announced him
> for Mclaren..
>
> don't take anything for granted Perez, remember
> Montoya?...
>
> on another hand, Maldonado is showing a few signs
> of improvement, his speed is there, but what about
> Senna?, what are Williams going to do with him?,
> imho that's a wasted seat, the guy is not showing
> signs of improvement in any area.
> at least with Grosjean you know he has some speed,
> but Senna doesn't show anything, it's just
> frustrating to see him race. reminds me of Mark
> Blundell in his late CART years.

Senna's quite race smart, but you're right in that he's not a particularly speedy driver.

I do think Maldonado's really come on leaps and bounds. Perhaps after his win at Spain, he had quite a rush of blood to the head and got a little complacent. This complacency turned into the need to prove that Barcelona wasn't a fluke. I would imagine Frank had a word with Pastor, just telling him what he expects which has done him a lot of good. He really did well today, and he's the kind of racer that Frank likes.

Having not actually seen Bottas in a racing situation (I've watched GP2 for ages, but I've only started watching GP3 this season) I couldn't tell you if he deserves a seat or not. In practice, he seems to be a good match for Maldonado pace-wise, which would probably mark him higher than Senna. Of course, we don't quite know what schedule his practice sessions consist of, but I do think he'd be up there.

@marcl: There's been no official announcement to suggest that; as far as I know they're just rumours that coincide with the fact that Perez joined the team. Telmex have officially gone on record to say they're staying at Sauber for at least next season.

---

GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

mclaren schould have taken schumacher.

there is no one better than him currently out there.
not only as a speed but also money he brings in, the flexibility that goes with a 1 year contract etc.

on anohter note, about perez:

the guy was prettys fast in suzuka, in the points in the last race and in the points today as well. its just he always finds a way to crash into someone

J i m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> aagancia Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Really happy with the Kimi win. Always wanted
> to
> > see him up there again. Hillarious radio
> messages
> > and post race comments from him.
> > Would have been happy also if Alonso won to get
> a
> > closer championship fight.
> > Impressive recovery by Vettel, But he was aided
> a
> > lot by the safety cars. Shameful language from
> him
> > in the post race interview
>
> So Kimi says "@#$%&" and it's hilarious. Seb says
> "@#$%&" and it's shameful? Double standards much?
> :Pa

Is it that obvious that I like Kimi far more than I like Seb?

But, seriously, Kimi may have had a condescending tone on the radio or a passive one on the interview, but he did not need foul language to get his thoughts across. The interview just further confirms how young and immature Seb still is. Drivers, specially champions, carry a moral responsibility as they are idolized by fans (young and old) and their words are broadcasted around the world. With no chance to edit things out in a live broadcast.

Don't get me wrong. Its not that big of a deal for me. I watch for the racing. But Seb did not do himself any favors with that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2012 12:54AM by aagancia.

I'm not having all this "Vettel got lucky" stuff.

Yes a few cars fell off, and yes the 2nd safety car meant he was closer to the leading group than he otherwise would have been, but he only gained one place from there.

The 1st safety car did bunch everyone up, but he also dropped to dead last again after after having his wing replaced.

He had a fast car, and he had an advantage with being able to change gear ratios, but after that 1st safety car came in he drove like a man possessed. That's the hardest I've seen him drive in a long, long time. It was almost Alonso-esq.

Incident 2k9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Slash Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Perez is really starting to worry me.. he
> hasn't
> > done absolutely anything after they announced
> him
> > for Mclaren..
> >
> > don't take anything for granted Perez, remember
> > Montoya?...
> >
> > on another hand, Maldonado is showing a few
> signs
> > of improvement, his speed is there, but what
> about
> > Senna?, what are Williams going to do with
> him?,
> > imho that's a wasted seat, the guy is not
> showing
> > signs of improvement in any area.
> > at least with Grosjean you know he has some
> speed,
> > but Senna doesn't show anything, it's just
> > frustrating to see him race. reminds me of Mark
> > Blundell in his late CART years.
>
> Senna's quite race smart, but you're right in that
> he's not a particularly speedy driver.
>
> I do think Maldonado's really come on leaps and
> bounds. Perhaps after his win at Spain, he had
> quite a rush of blood to the head and got a little
> complacent. This complacency turned into the need
> to prove that Barcelona wasn't a fluke. I would
> imagine Frank had a word with Pastor, just telling
> him what he expects which has done him a lot of
> good. He really did well today, and he's the kind
> of racer that Frank likes.
>
> Having not actually seen Bottas in a racing
> situation (I've watched GP2 for ages, but I've
> only started watching GP3 this season) I couldn't
> tell you if he deserves a seat or not. In
> practice, he seems to be a good match for
> Maldonado pace-wise, which would probably mark him
> higher than Senna. Of course, we don't quite know
> what schedule his practice sessions consist of,
> but I do think he'd be up there.
>
> @marcl: There's been no official announcement to
> suggest that; as far as I know they're just
> rumours that coincide with the fact that Perez
> joined the team. Telmex have officially gone on
> record to say they're staying at Sauber for at
> least next season.


true. however Pastor still needs to keep that consistency. i doubt much people in the grid take him seriously yet, but he can do it if he keeps the speed and clean races

i do see a possible scenario for 2014,... Perez out, Kimi returns...

I can't see Kimi returning to McLaren with their higher level of restrictions etc. I could see him going to Red Bull should Vettel leave though.

---

X (@ed24f1)

Raikkonen deserved it! Nice to see Lotus back at the
Top after 1987.

Hamilton's still getting the farewell treatment, albeit, this time from the car itself.

Seb, has a quick car and managed 3rd thanks to safety car periods. This drive was much better and composed than what he drove in Spa 2010.

Alonso, still cant manage his horse to giddiyapp fast
Enough to manage a win. Bad On Ferrari.

Alas, was on a train and only could view live timings with text commentary with an occational bit of
Race footage when 3g was available..

Was a contrast a weekend makes after watching the race live at BIC, India.

Will have to manage to view the highlights to be aired tonight
On Star Sports! Last two racers will sure be a cracker!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2012 09:03AM by hasbriale.

Also there are a lot of brilliant photos on [lotusf1team.latphoto.co.uk]

aagancia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But, seriously, Kimi may have had a condescending
> tone on the radio or a passive one on the
> interview, but he did not need foul language to
> get his thoughts across. The interview just
> further confirms how young and immature Seb still is.

So swearing = immaturity?
I disagree. It's not necessary, no, but sometimes it can be nice to hear. If someone is a character and likes expressing their thoughts and emotions, it will happen sometimes. Kimi and Seb are two of the biggest characters in F1. If interviews like the one we saw yesterday seem wrong, then maybe F1 has become too professional.
I thought Seb was pretty damn funny myself.

---

I wasn't offended by the interviews but I can see how a viewer watching with young children could have been.

My main bone of contention was though how it was apparently totally ok and indeed "hilarious" it was for Kimi to swear and yet "shameful" for Vettel to swear.

Either swearing is ok or it is not, it's not dependent on who happens to be doing the swearing

Well, while we're on the subject. As far as I'm concerned Kimi has an abnoxious personality I find him ignorant. Never liked the man that's it, my opinion only. As for Vettel yes he's young a little imature for sure, in any event the vulgarity has a little to do with his age but more to do with his lack of vocabulary. They say where a foriegn language is concerned it's always the swear words that people learn first?
Me personally, ..... well I dont want to hear it. I dont find it funny. It reminds me of the little nerds, when I was at school wanting to be with the big boys, so they punctuated every sentence with an expletive.
Plus I sometimes watch this sport with my kids or members of my family ( I actually thought the sport had more class, obviously not ) so no, I don't find it particularly hilarious.


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2012 06:19PM by Isaint.

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not having all this "Vettel got lucky" stuff.
>
> Yes a few cars fell off, and yes the 2nd safety
> car meant he was closer to the leading group than
> he otherwise would have been, but he only gained
> one place from there.
>
> The 1st safety car did bunch everyone up, but he
> also dropped to dead last again after after having
> his wing replaced.
>
> He had a fast car, and he had an advantage with
> being able to change gear ratios, but after that
> 1st safety car came in he drove like a man
> possessed. That's the hardest I've seen him drive
> in a long, long time. It was almost Alonso-esq.

Vettel drove brilliantly and I agree he was absolutely flying after the first safety car but he did get a fair amount of luck that helped him get onto the podium and he really didn't have to fight anybody except Jenson when you think about it. I thought this would be the race where we find out if Seb can overtake but it wasn't really required.

If you look at his race, the incidents on the first lap meant that Vettel didn't have to overtake either of the Force India's or Roman Grosjean in the Lotus. He passed Senna who admittedly gave him a fight down the straight, but after that he walked past the HRTs, Marussias and Caterhams which are almost running in a seperate formula. He was then catching the Toro Rosso's when the first safety car happened, which incidently removed another potential roadblock (Rosberg) from his path.

After his mistake with the polystyrene he pitted and got fresh rubber, coming out at the back, but right on the tail of the field. He then tore his was through the backmarker teams and passed Di Resta and Grosjean in the first couple of laps after the safety car, when he was on much fresher rubber. He passed Senna again, and the Toro Rossos both jumped out of the way for him before he overtook Schumacher who was only a lap or so away from needing new tyres. Kobayashi pitted from ahead of him, Massa and Webber had their coming together which put Massa behind Vettel. After that everybody else pitted which put Vettel into second before his pitstop which brought him out in 4th, 20 seconds behind. It was admittedly a good bit of driving to net overtake the cars he was now ahead of after his second pitstop but I think only Maldonado, Kobayashi and Schumacher didn't have some kind of problem in the same time period.

We then had the second safety car which allowed Vettel to close right behind the leaders with tyres that were 7 laps newer and he used that to get past Button.

From memory I think only Button and Senna (at the start) really fought Vettel for position. Grosjean did a bit after the first safety car but with new tyres there wasn't much he could do to defend the position.

So it was a great drive from Seb who drove well and put in some excellent laps, but without the safety cars bunching the field and allowing him to end up on the right tyre at the right time I don't think he would have finished higher than 6th or 7th.

Adman1138
Damn, after reading the 'blow by blow' acount of vettels race I'm even more convinced that the boy done well ............ all those incidents and he managed to keep out of it always being at the right part of the circuit ..... some luck. More like just being on it all the way and lettings things fall for you because it happens like that when you are super confident.


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2012 07:05PM by Isaint.

Isaint Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, while we're on the subject. As far as I'm
> concerned Kimi has an abnoxious personality I find
> him ignorant.

I can see how he could be viewed as ignorant, but obnoxious?
He's very blunt, dry and sarcastic, and quite fiery too I think, which I guess could come across as him being not a nice person - that's only if you take him at face value though. And a lot of the "nice" side of his character is kept hidden away from the media.

---

EC83 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isaint Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, while we're on the subject. As far as I'm
> > concerned Kimi has an abnoxious personality I
> find
> > him ignorant.
>
> I can see how he could be viewed as ignorant, but
> obnoxious?
> He's very blunt, dry and sarcastic, and quite
> fiery too I think, which I guess could come across
> as him being not a nice person - that's only if
> you take him at face value though. And a lot of
> the "nice" side of his character is kept hidden
> away from the media.

Could be so, I dont know the man personally, may be just what we see in public. I dont mind the fiery bit but as you say I have always found him blunt ..... ...


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group

I love Kimi's personality. The 2000s were full of people in most high profile sports toeing the corporate line and being lynched when they strayed outside of it. F1 seems to have loosened up now and many of the characters seem to speak their mind a bit more. Last decade I wouldn't have dreamt we'd have Webber sarcastically applauding his own team on the radio after winning a race or having his teammate giving him the 'mental' finger.

I think social networks and particularly Twitter has a lot to do with it. Drivers are able to express themselves without having a PR guru over their shoulder wagging the finger, and that mentality is coming into the paddock more and more. For instance Button seems a completely different and much more likeable person now, someone you'd happily go for a drink with down the local and feel you'd known them all your life. You now know that's exactly how he is as a person - there's no PR shield like there was for Hamilton in 2007.

EC83 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> aagancia Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > But, seriously, Kimi may have had a
> condescending
> > tone on the radio or a passive one on the
> > interview, but he did not need foul language to
> > get his thoughts across. The interview just
> > further confirms how young and immature Seb
> still is.
>
> So swearing = immaturity?
> I disagree. It's not necessary, no, but sometimes
> it can be nice to hear. If someone is a character
> and likes expressing their thoughts and emotions,
> it will happen sometimes. Kimi and Seb are two of
> the biggest characters in F1. If interviews like
> the one we saw yesterday seem wrong, then maybe F1
> has become too professional.
> I thought Seb was pretty damn funny myself.

Choice of words is a matter of preference. I don't mind if some people like it, but I personally don't prefer it.

I see it as an immature action since he still does not have the foresight to see that he is being watched by millions of people on unrestricted live television and that by being current champion, he is idolized by a lot of youths. Nearly all TV broadcasts bleeps out these words for good reason(even upto PG15). I would not mind if it happened on an untelevised interview where it could be easily edited out. DC even had to apologize for him, and DC did it very elegantly without embarrassing Seb in the process.

Like Isaint, I watch with my kid.

Biggest Charge since Christian Danner in Phoenix 1989 (P4)??? Changing F1 History, to make modern F1 Fans in Germany Stupid .

How (Pro German) is German Media Today??? I remember Paul Ricard 1989, Nigel Mansell starting from the Pit Lane to finish (2nd), i commented 5 times on this yesterday and they deleted my posts.

I remember and i watched this race yesterday .

The Real Story of the Race was that the Renault's fell apart and the Ferrari's didn't.
Rosberg headed for the sliproad and retired, probably because of Nicotin starvation they have still not given him a helmet with a little hole in it.

m,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2012 01:31AM by mitadumapaga.

Wtf is that???

The Real Story of the Race was that the Renault's fell apart and the Ferrari's didn't.
Rosberg headed for the sliproad and retired, probably because of Nicotin starvation they have still not given him a helmet with a little hole in it.