Grand Prix Legends - anyone?

I am a great fan of Grand Prix Legends, a game, released in 1998 by Papyrus (defunct), where you drive in F1 cars of 1967.
Truly amazing and very realistic game for it's age, which handling you have never seen before qua realism.

Shortly I retired from this game but I'd love to share my thoughts here with others about this game.
Three top-links:

[srmz.net] (Sim Racing Mirror Zone, headquarters of topics about Grand Prix Legends, etc.)
[gpltd.bcsims.com] (Track database, and links to mods, patches, etc.)
[www.gplracer.eu] (Online racing league where I take part in. Retired now, but might return after exams in May & July. Those guys are really nice so if you look for one, visit them!)

Its car model is the single hardest to drive.

I love that game, so great physics. I practically never finished higher than 11-12nd in a race, but every time I want the hardest challenge in simulators, I drive that game. I also adore F1 history, particularly old tracks, so the year and the era is a bonus.

My favourite thing was the Nurburgring. I never drove it before, I don't play rFactor and stuff... but I guess it was incomparable with rFactor as well for others though... So that was my first time, and it just blew me away. I spent minutes just by looking at the track map without much progress, so I got into the car and drove the circuit... It took me about A WEEK to learn the track properly. I often played back a lap in my mind in my spare time to memorize it. Then the downforce: in rFactor you have tons of downforce on the Ring, which might be more fun, but in GPL it is 1000-times harder with no aerodynamic downforce. I never made a mistake-free lap on that track, though I came close. I still think I have 2-4 seconds in it somewhere. ...The Nurburgring in GPL is the single biggest challenge one could get in a simulator. Since then, of course, I see it as the greatest track ever built - and being a race track history enthusiast, I DO know a lot of tracks.

These are my initial thoughts, I'd welcome other replies with experiences as well.

With GPL 1969 mod the car driving model is easier and by the way GPL with it is just a real magic from 1998 with graphics from 2008.

The old classics will be always better than the newest games.

Quote
Atticus.
Its car model is the single hardest to drive.

It's not really. Papyrus just really messed up with the default setups and the extremes they allowed them to go to.

If you use a more realistic setup from the era (so raise the ride-height from the minimum 2.5 inches to around 4.5 inches) and soften the suspension accordingly, you end up with a car you can really chuck about and have fun with, without it savagely snapping out of control (though the Lotus will still have that rather strange, sensitive yet vague feeling). If they'd spend a bit more time on the polish of the game, then initial users would have been much more inclined to stick with it rather than just thinking "WTF is this... you can't drive..."

That said, it was the savagery and legend of it that attracted me to it in 2001. At the time I felt GP3 and GP4 were just too easy, even without all the driving aids and strengthening the opposition, and I craved something more. GPL was that, and I must have lost lots of weeks to that game since.... and as it directly involved me getting into GTP endurance racing and all the testing involved, months.

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Its car model is the single hardest to drive.
>
>
> It's not really. Papyrus just really messed up
> with the default setups and the extremes they
> allowed them to go to.
>
> If you use a more realistic setup from the era (so
> raise the ride-height from the minimum 2.5 inches
> to around 4.5 inches) and soften the suspension
> accordingly, you end up with a car you can really
> chuck about and have fun with, without it savagely
> snapping out of control (though the Lotus will
> still have that rather strange, sensitive yet
> vague feeling). If they'd spend a bit more time on
> the polish of the game, then initial users would
> have been much more inclined to stick with it
> rather than just thinking "WTF is this... you
> can't drive..."
>
> That said, it was the savagery and legend of it
> that attracted me to it in 2001. At the time I
> felt GP3 and GP4 were just too easy, even without
> all the driving aids and strengthening the
> opposition, and I craved something more. GPL was
> that, and I must have lost lots of weeks to that
> game since.... and as it directly involved me
> getting into GTP endurance racing and all the
> testing involved, months.


I thought an official patch remedied the setup issues. I'm supposed to play the patched version. Is it still unrealistic? And if so, why the sites of testers' (Alison Hine & Co.) sites did not complain about the patched version afterwards?

Nah, I'm talking about the most recent release (which, rasterisers excluded, is still from, what 1999? 2000?). It's generally very realistic.... except for the ride height. If you want to be competitive online, you have to use the lowest ride height you can get away with... which makes the car a real handful.

The F1 cars of the 60s ran a full 2 inches (5cm) higher than we run in GPL. That, and the softer suspension you can use as a result, makes a huge difference to the handling. Seriously, try it - it's a piece of piss to drive the cars afterwards (though the balance does change a bit).

It's the same with every game though. We can test at extremes that the real world wouldn't dream of, because if Stewart had left the pits with the extreme settings some of us try, he wouldn't make it back... as if the odds in the 60s weren't against you enough already.

I wouldn't take much notice of Alison Hine. She was good in providing some solid, fairly reliable base setups, but I only know one person who can use them at all today. I'd be a couple of seconds a lap a slower using them. Rather than going against what she said, I just think the development team themselves didn't really understand the settings you could apply.

If you were in any need of knowing how limited the knowledge of some of the developers was, take a look at Spa. The track isn't even nearly right. It's far too wide, the layout from Eau Rouge up Kemmel is completely wrong (it used to have slight curves in it) and Malmedy is just a layout they randomly plucked from the history books - it's horribly wrong too, and by a number of years. You contrast that with how accurate they made the Nurburgring (comparatively, given the length of the track) and it's like a completely different team was behind it.

They are currently making a realistic version of Spa which will come at the 1st half of 2013. It is nearing completion.

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nah, I'm talking about the most recent release
> (which, rasterisers excluded, is still from, what
> 1999? 2000?). It's generally very realistic....
> except for the ride height. If you want to be
> competitive online, you have to use the lowest
> ride height you can get away with... which makes
> the car a real handful.
>
> The F1 cars of the 60s ran a full 2 inches (5cm)
> higher than we run in GPL. That, and the softer
> suspension you can use as a result, makes a huge
> difference to the handling. Seriously, try it -
> it's a piece of piss to drive the cars afterwards
> (though the balance does change a bit).
>
> It's the same with every game though. We can test
> at extremes that the real world wouldn't dream of,
> because if Stewart had left the pits with the
> extreme settings some of us try, he wouldn't make
> it back... as if the odds in the 60s weren't
> against you enough already.
>
> I wouldn't take much notice of Alison Hine. She
> was good in providing some solid, fairly reliable
> base setups, but I only know one person who can
> use them at all today. I'd be a couple of seconds
> a lap a slower using them. Rather than going
> against what she said, I just think the
> development team themselves didn't really
> understand the settings you could apply.
>
> If you were in any need of knowing how limited the
> knowledge of some of the developers was, take a
> look at Spa. The track isn't even nearly right.
> It's far too wide, the layout from Eau Rouge up
> Kemmel is completely wrong (it used to have slight
> curves in it) and Malmedy is just a layout they
> randomly plucked from the history books - it's
> horribly wrong too, and by a number of years. You
> contrast that with how accurate they made the
> Nurburgring (comparatively, given the length of
> the track) and it's like a completely different
> team was behind it.


Yes, I noticed the track inaccuracies as well, it really annoyed me. I would have liked to make Eau Rouge as it was back then in an 1967 car - that's why I created an 1979 version of Spa for GP4 and I could still run cars from the Sixties on it.

The Barbeque Bend in Kyalami and the Big Bend in Watkins Glen are a mess too.

Otherwise, thanks for the setup tips, I'll definitely try them out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2012 02:29PM by Atticus..

GPLPS Installer has been updated to 1.07 beta. It is worth of trying. They have included newest rasterizers, improved graphics and made other updates as well.

-Titus03-

Sims: CPR, CR, F1C, F1GP, F1RS, GP2, GP3, GP4,
GPL, GTL, GTR2. INDY500, ICR, NL, NR (PC & PSX),
NR2, NR1999, NR2003, R+, RBR & S1K

I will try out the setups, thanks. I have big problems in France at the C shaped corner after one hard left corner. I just can't stop the car and Im crashing at the tires. Is there exists any way to make the brakes harder?

The old classics will be always better than the newest games.

Ah, Noveau Monde. It's a damn tricky corner. Frankly, you've just got to brake earlier. The harder you brake, the more likely you are to lock a wheel, and locking a wheel there usually results in a crash. It's one of the few corners on the game where locking the rear wheels hurts you more than if you lock the fronts, as if you slide onto the grass in the left-hander, you're almost guaranteed to hit the tyres... that said, there are few more satisfying moments in gaming than turning right through the left-hander while braking for Noveau Monde, and the powerslide you have going up the hill to Samson. It's a brilliant track.

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ah, Noveau Monde. It's a damn tricky corner.
> Frankly, you've just got to brake earlier. The
> harder you brake, the more likely you are to lock
> a wheel, and locking a wheel there usually results
> in a crash. It's one of the few corners on the
> game where locking the rear wheels hurts you more
> than if you lock the fronts, as if you slide onto
> the grass in the left-hander, you're almost
> guaranteed to hit the tyres... that said, there
> are few more satisfying moments in gaming than
> turning right through the left-hander while
> braking for Noveau Monde, and the powerslide you
> have going up the hill to Samson. It's a brilliant
> track.


Yeah, I must brake at the corner before Noveau Monde while Im turning left which is just......really heart braking if you are in a real car. And this proves me that GPL is not for everyone. It's a real simulation.

By the way my favorite track is Mosport. It have what I need "to hit the gas pedal" on it's limit. By the way Im a keyboard user.

The old classics will be always better than the newest games.

Mosport was probably the easiest track to model. Layout-wise it has never changed My GPL Rank is -15.123. My username on GPL Rank : math gif

I've just got back into the game (played it real hard back in 2004-2005) and I beat all my times at The Glen after two full days driving

I remember when I first played GPL, I saw the BRM and said "wow, that's the most powerful car ! What ?!?! It has 6 gears !!! Must be the best car in the game !!!11!1!!1!!" What a whale in fact But a fun to drive whale I have yet to be negative on 9 tracks with the BRM, but the car isn't as frustrating to drive as the Honda. The lack of low-end torque makes it easier to drive at Monaco. I just need that half-second before being negative though. I hate the braking to Gazworks

Oh, and the guy who drove the Kyalami lap before game relase is a genius. I have only one negative lap around there. I need more laps

Oh gosh I love the Can Ams !

@georgibg: Haha, I know how you feel, Nouveau Monde is one of the trickiest corners in the world. I also mostly played GPL with keyboard (I think it must be even more difficult than with a wheel), and what worked for me was to start braking for Monde way earlier than you'd imagine (basically, what gav said), before the left-hander. For a start, just let it roll through the left-hander without braking to avoid the back stepping out. It's slower this way than to keep braking through the left-hander and trying to counter the snap-out with opposite lock, but - especially with keyboard - I think it is safer.

This is really the tricky part, if you manage to slow down enough and manage to get the car settled on the short downhill straight to Nouveau Monde, then you are practically done. Hit the brakes when the car settled following the above procedure in the left-hander, and you should be fine. Nailing the apex is still immensely hard, first, be glad to consistently make the turn, than keep adjusting it a bit.

@Briere: Yeah, I also hate that braking zone. It is so hard to get the initial braking point right. Also you have to be especially precise with placing the car, because of the slight left-bend in the straight - start braking from the left side and you can never have the proper widest radius in Gazométre. It was tricky, shame it is completely gone by now.

Never stopped !!!

Most other sims... sorry games, you can't settle the rear with the throttle.

With tracks galore like Clermont Ferrand... I'll play in my coffin.


Best GPL vid ever




MotherDawg
I own crappy boxes
I do RPMs -- CentOs & Fedora
I loose countless hours tweaking games that I barely ever play... just to see if the mod works.

I'm now into some light modding. I "made" the Grand Prix Yamura, with Pete Aron at the wheel Sound made by yours truly too

Just posting it here. I don't know if you watched or not, or if you would like to watch any of these... but anyway I really like this guy's GPL vids.





___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]

Awwww man I love the F2s ! I'm actually quicker around Zandvoort with the F2s than I am with the F1s LINK TO MY F2 MONSTER RANK





GrandPrixYannick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They are currently making a realistic version of
> Spa which will come at the 1st half of 2013. It is
> nearing completion.

Late 2014 was the official date in the end lol

Bump, cos Jake from the GPLaps channel has been very active lately and produced some really good stuff as always.
[www.youtube.com]

He's now also playing newer racing games such as Automobilista, Asetto Corsa and rFactor as well, but in his own fasion, which I adore quite much.
Hope some enjoy these,
Cheers

___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]