The UK General Election
Posted by Covfan
It is, but then if you are suggesting you yourself are one of the vast minority who genuinely are struggling AND trying to find a real job, then hats off.
The sad truth is the majority of those on job seekers claim it for not trying particularly hard; being significantly underskilled and generally not trying to do anything about it.
That is what I am aiming at, the ones abusing the system and taking more than they put in.
That is hardly motivational, and sets a trend likely to remain until they die.
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
The sad truth is the majority of those on job seekers claim it for not trying particularly hard; being significantly underskilled and generally not trying to do anything about it.
That is what I am aiming at, the ones abusing the system and taking more than they put in.
That is hardly motivational, and sets a trend likely to remain until they die.
I think you got me wrong from the first few words.
More people are abusing it than genuinely using it. That is why the stereotype exists, of the layabout 'jeremy kyle watching white lightning drinkers'.
You hit back in the perspective more people were genuinely claiming it. It is the other way around.
So your words should have been 'So punish everybody to catch MOST OF THEM who are offending and abusing it anyway'.
Which is a fantastic policy.
At the end of the day, if you are fit enough to do some sort of work, then you should damn well contribute.
Clean litter. Do some gardening for civic buildings and areas. Unskilled, easy jobs that most people can do.
Brilliant.
When you are forced to do something to get this free money, as little as the job may be, that will act more of a catalyst to get them to move onto something else. At the current rate, they get money for not even trying. Where is the motivation?
At least if you have to clean litter or dig weeds for old todgers you have something to complain about and aspire to not do.
Again, taken in context with the majority who are acting as layabouts and not trying. The abusers.
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2010 11:52PM by danm.
More people are abusing it than genuinely using it. That is why the stereotype exists, of the layabout 'jeremy kyle watching white lightning drinkers'.
You hit back in the perspective more people were genuinely claiming it. It is the other way around.
So your words should have been 'So punish everybody to catch MOST OF THEM who are offending and abusing it anyway'.
Which is a fantastic policy.
At the end of the day, if you are fit enough to do some sort of work, then you should damn well contribute.
Clean litter. Do some gardening for civic buildings and areas. Unskilled, easy jobs that most people can do.
Brilliant.
When you are forced to do something to get this free money, as little as the job may be, that will act more of a catalyst to get them to move onto something else. At the current rate, they get money for not even trying. Where is the motivation?
At least if you have to clean litter or dig weeds for old todgers you have something to complain about and aspire to not do.
Again, taken in context with the majority who are acting as layabouts and not trying. The abusers.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2010 11:52PM by danm.
Tories ftw
Sim
All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!
"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole
Sim
All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!
"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole
Very insightful post Dave, I agree that I do not know it as indepth as that. But I do have my own case studies as example to say on my part why I disagree with some bits. Won't post now, maybe in the next day or so.
Sure, some people are voting Tories just to say screw you Labour.
But...
If you say that is bad, which is is, then what about the way the Lib Dems are approaching this entire election? They are taking that situation as one of the biggest fuels for their campaign. 'Vote for us because we aren't them'.
Imagine they did win it. They would be a party voted in for being the least hated, not the most liked. Hardly a way to go about things, is it?
Besides that, a lot of the Lib Dem policies in my view will not benefit me, my future, my family, the people I am around whatsoever.
Sure, that might make me a total bastard, but at the end of the day we are all voting on what suits us, and how we see fit things should be done.
I think the concensus here is that yes, Labour screwed up. So it seems Tories or Lib Dems. But which?
Frankly, the Lib Dem approach frightens me for being rather naive. Good promises, some of them, but not thought out. The Tories, as brutal the consequences may be for instance in your example, would be a reason not to vote. But until something like that happens to me, only then will I be able to use my experience and blame a particular government or system.
Right now, I like the Conservative views, they benefit me and those around me much better than the rest. So they get my vote. We all can do as we please, so sure, vote Lib Dem.
But looking back, I am surprised you were so anti Conservative about what I said originally. What did you do between the job centre moments, may I ask? Apologies for being intrusive, but how would cleaning litter or doing other chore-like jobs as a stop-gap to fill the time be so bad?
The system is what needs fixing. Sure. A better way to find more suited jobs. BUT At least this would get you up on your feet during the days.
Unless of course you are allergic to crisp packets and pile cream...
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
Sure, some people are voting Tories just to say screw you Labour.
But...
If you say that is bad, which is is, then what about the way the Lib Dems are approaching this entire election? They are taking that situation as one of the biggest fuels for their campaign. 'Vote for us because we aren't them'.
Imagine they did win it. They would be a party voted in for being the least hated, not the most liked. Hardly a way to go about things, is it?
Besides that, a lot of the Lib Dem policies in my view will not benefit me, my future, my family, the people I am around whatsoever.
Sure, that might make me a total bastard, but at the end of the day we are all voting on what suits us, and how we see fit things should be done.
I think the concensus here is that yes, Labour screwed up. So it seems Tories or Lib Dems. But which?
Frankly, the Lib Dem approach frightens me for being rather naive. Good promises, some of them, but not thought out. The Tories, as brutal the consequences may be for instance in your example, would be a reason not to vote. But until something like that happens to me, only then will I be able to use my experience and blame a particular government or system.
Right now, I like the Conservative views, they benefit me and those around me much better than the rest. So they get my vote. We all can do as we please, so sure, vote Lib Dem.
But looking back, I am surprised you were so anti Conservative about what I said originally. What did you do between the job centre moments, may I ask? Apologies for being intrusive, but how would cleaning litter or doing other chore-like jobs as a stop-gap to fill the time be so bad?
The system is what needs fixing. Sure. A better way to find more suited jobs. BUT At least this would get you up on your feet during the days.
Unless of course you are allergic to crisp packets and pile cream...
I have likened the UK public services to a house in a shanty town before, because I think it's a good analogy.
Whenever it looks in danger of collapse, the Government (whoever they may be) quickly add another bit of support to try and prop it up for another few years. When it starts to wobble again, they throw more crap at it in an attempt to keep it standing. The system is effectively a rotten, dilapedated core which should have been condemned years ago, but instead we've had policy upon policy to support it (prolong its life) and prevent it from crashing down on our heads.
Nobody has had the balls to tear the whole damn thing down and build a new house with secure foundations. My voting this year will be heavily influenced by which party I think has the balls to make genuine changes. So far, I'm not convinced by any of the main three.
So instead, I turn to Education. The Rose Review of the National Curriculum - without doubt the most important piece of curriculum review since the National Curriculum was introduced in the late 1980s - is an essential piece of legislation for Primary schools in the UK and must be implemented at all costs. Labour tried to force it through (it didn't work) and the Conservatives are threatening to scrap it if they are elected (so they've lost my vote).
K*bots UK, specialist providers of 'fun science' Curriculum Enhancement days for Primary and Secondary schools in Britain.
Please find us on [en.wikipedia.org] for more information.
Whenever it looks in danger of collapse, the Government (whoever they may be) quickly add another bit of support to try and prop it up for another few years. When it starts to wobble again, they throw more crap at it in an attempt to keep it standing. The system is effectively a rotten, dilapedated core which should have been condemned years ago, but instead we've had policy upon policy to support it (prolong its life) and prevent it from crashing down on our heads.
Nobody has had the balls to tear the whole damn thing down and build a new house with secure foundations. My voting this year will be heavily influenced by which party I think has the balls to make genuine changes. So far, I'm not convinced by any of the main three.
So instead, I turn to Education. The Rose Review of the National Curriculum - without doubt the most important piece of curriculum review since the National Curriculum was introduced in the late 1980s - is an essential piece of legislation for Primary schools in the UK and must be implemented at all costs. Labour tried to force it through (it didn't work) and the Conservatives are threatening to scrap it if they are elected (so they've lost my vote).
The problem with politicians is, they're all pretty much the same, which ever party we elect to power is pretty much going to produce the same result.
I haven't exactly kept myself well informed of the policies floating around this time round, and to be honest the election has kind of sneaked up on me and slapped me in the face, I'm sure there was a much longer and more intense campaigning period last time round, but then in general I'm apathetic and generally not interested anyway.
Working for the mental health service (secure services) of the NHS, I have first hand experience of the general low life chav type scum that damn refers to and yes they're a complete waste of space who are basically receiving epic pocket money for being...well completely useless. But I think you kind of miss the point...because as Dave points out there are just as many people who aren't useless, but who are struggling to get by and rely on benefits because basically there isn't enough work to go round.
Now, I've never been particularly well off but I'm extremely lucky to have never been in the position of claiming any benefits in my adult life. So I'm definitely a bit detached from that. But I do know that not everyone can simply walk into a job as and when they feel like it. It simply does not work like that. It took me long enough to land my first part time job as a teenager, I only got my first apprenticeship because theperson who beat me to the job in the first place was a dick head and got fired (I'd applied for every other one around and failed), when that went sour for me, I had to leave because the work was making my life a misery, I wasn't dismissed, I resigned, the management were fantastically supportive, but because I'd left the job on my own account I probably wouldn't have qualified for benefits.
I then had the incredible luck to get my next job elsewhere not for my qualifications (although even a chimpanzee would have been drastically overqualified for the job), but basically because the company was part owned by my Dad's boss and it was more of a favour, and that he'd basically take on any moron who'd put up with the @#$%& that the job was, (most ran a million miles when confronted with it). I took it because there was feckall else and the JC weren't being very useful, although I think I got one interview at Dumelm, which I declined because it would have been less money for me and I'd already accepted the other work.
In my current job, although I'm probably one of the least moronic people working to my role, I got a head start in similar circumstances because my Mum worked there, and basically told me what to say in the interview.
My point here is... apart from my first part-time work as a teenage student, I've never landed a job from simply applying and being the best through the interview. There's usually been some favourable factor that's put it on my plate. Without those I'd probably either be on the doll right now... or else doing something else unpalatable.
I've always been an honest worker, prepared to work for my keep. I'm by no means the most intelligent but I'm no idiot and have a very practical common sense. Yet if it wasn't for some lucky circumstances I highly doubt I'd be in any work outside supermarket work and I'd probably have been on the doll a fair few times. Would I really want to vote for someone who's hell bent on making it even harder for people not born with a silverspoon in their mouths?
Labour have lost my vote, because basically they a bunch of back stabbing morons who are incapable of working as team and supporting their leader. I can't bring myself to vote Tory because for what Dave points out. Lid Dem aren't going to win in a million years because they simply aren't...so who ever I vote for.... tell me what's going to change?
Bugger all.
I haven't exactly kept myself well informed of the policies floating around this time round, and to be honest the election has kind of sneaked up on me and slapped me in the face, I'm sure there was a much longer and more intense campaigning period last time round, but then in general I'm apathetic and generally not interested anyway.
Working for the mental health service (secure services) of the NHS, I have first hand experience of the general low life chav type scum that damn refers to and yes they're a complete waste of space who are basically receiving epic pocket money for being...well completely useless. But I think you kind of miss the point...because as Dave points out there are just as many people who aren't useless, but who are struggling to get by and rely on benefits because basically there isn't enough work to go round.
Now, I've never been particularly well off but I'm extremely lucky to have never been in the position of claiming any benefits in my adult life. So I'm definitely a bit detached from that. But I do know that not everyone can simply walk into a job as and when they feel like it. It simply does not work like that. It took me long enough to land my first part time job as a teenager, I only got my first apprenticeship because theperson who beat me to the job in the first place was a dick head and got fired (I'd applied for every other one around and failed), when that went sour for me, I had to leave because the work was making my life a misery, I wasn't dismissed, I resigned, the management were fantastically supportive, but because I'd left the job on my own account I probably wouldn't have qualified for benefits.
I then had the incredible luck to get my next job elsewhere not for my qualifications (although even a chimpanzee would have been drastically overqualified for the job), but basically because the company was part owned by my Dad's boss and it was more of a favour, and that he'd basically take on any moron who'd put up with the @#$%& that the job was, (most ran a million miles when confronted with it). I took it because there was feckall else and the JC weren't being very useful, although I think I got one interview at Dumelm, which I declined because it would have been less money for me and I'd already accepted the other work.
In my current job, although I'm probably one of the least moronic people working to my role, I got a head start in similar circumstances because my Mum worked there, and basically told me what to say in the interview.
My point here is... apart from my first part-time work as a teenage student, I've never landed a job from simply applying and being the best through the interview. There's usually been some favourable factor that's put it on my plate. Without those I'd probably either be on the doll right now... or else doing something else unpalatable.
I've always been an honest worker, prepared to work for my keep. I'm by no means the most intelligent but I'm no idiot and have a very practical common sense. Yet if it wasn't for some lucky circumstances I highly doubt I'd be in any work outside supermarket work and I'd probably have been on the doll a fair few times. Would I really want to vote for someone who's hell bent on making it even harder for people not born with a silverspoon in their mouths?
Labour have lost my vote, because basically they a bunch of back stabbing morons who are incapable of working as team and supporting their leader. I can't bring myself to vote Tory because for what Dave points out. Lid Dem aren't going to win in a million years because they simply aren't...so who ever I vote for.... tell me what's going to change?
Bugger all.
Dave, allegedly Brown agreed to do an interview also, which is what has got Cameron to do one. Egged on.
Very insightful last few posts guys, I have to say I have learnt a lot more through personal views and experiences than what the media decides to dish out daily.
Thanks a lot!
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
Very insightful last few posts guys, I have to say I have learnt a lot more through personal views and experiences than what the media decides to dish out daily.
Thanks a lot!
Same...enjoyable discussion.
As for my vote, like i aid, its Tory, and i have good reason.
I've been in the same position as Dave. I was jobless and claiming JSA for 4months. Well, i was signing on and doing all the malarkey, but never actually received a single penny of it because of some admin @#$%& up. My sister is currently on JSA, and they are useless. She first had to wait for a few months because she quit her previous job - even though she quit because she was being asked by management to do things she was uninsured to do. (She was eventually allowed on after that companies head office wote a letter to the Job Centre explaining). Shes been on it for 6months now, and they're uselss. KEep offering her jobs at minimum wage, which are 60-90mins away, and would use most of what she earnt from it in trying to get there. Howveer, is she is able bodied and owns a car, so there is no reason why she couldnt go to the town centre and help pick up litter, or paint the local school, plant the flowers on the island etc. Even if it was only one day a week, to make sure she 'earnt' her JSA. Would also save a lot of money in paying for people to do things like this, when most people on JSA can do this.
Now, i dont care about education or families at this point, as neither really affect me. I take an interest in what they have to say about the NHS, but purely for teh people around me as i'm lucky enough to have private healthcare.
Financially, i dont agree with Labours planned NI rise - it's stupid and companies will figure out a way to lessen the impact of it, so it wont be effective. i beleive the tories plans for 'saving and investment' are right on the money to.
I am slo a big fan off their planned immigartion policy and limits.
The tories biggest plus (For me) is their plans for the transport system. I agree with a high speed rail system, and their plans to cut funding for speed cameras, hold companies that dig up roads and cause congestion accountable. I also like the idea of of stale fuel prices - cutting fuel duty when oil prices rise, and vice versa.
FWIW, i do like the Lib Dems and it would be a tough choice between them and tory for me, except for teh fact they plan to cut spending on roads to pay for greener travel. Our road system is awful as it is!
Sim
All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!
"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole
As for my vote, like i aid, its Tory, and i have good reason.
I've been in the same position as Dave. I was jobless and claiming JSA for 4months. Well, i was signing on and doing all the malarkey, but never actually received a single penny of it because of some admin @#$%& up. My sister is currently on JSA, and they are useless. She first had to wait for a few months because she quit her previous job - even though she quit because she was being asked by management to do things she was uninsured to do. (She was eventually allowed on after that companies head office wote a letter to the Job Centre explaining). Shes been on it for 6months now, and they're uselss. KEep offering her jobs at minimum wage, which are 60-90mins away, and would use most of what she earnt from it in trying to get there. Howveer, is she is able bodied and owns a car, so there is no reason why she couldnt go to the town centre and help pick up litter, or paint the local school, plant the flowers on the island etc. Even if it was only one day a week, to make sure she 'earnt' her JSA. Would also save a lot of money in paying for people to do things like this, when most people on JSA can do this.
Now, i dont care about education or families at this point, as neither really affect me. I take an interest in what they have to say about the NHS, but purely for teh people around me as i'm lucky enough to have private healthcare.
Financially, i dont agree with Labours planned NI rise - it's stupid and companies will figure out a way to lessen the impact of it, so it wont be effective. i beleive the tories plans for 'saving and investment' are right on the money to.
I am slo a big fan off their planned immigartion policy and limits.
The tories biggest plus (For me) is their plans for the transport system. I agree with a high speed rail system, and their plans to cut funding for speed cameras, hold companies that dig up roads and cause congestion accountable. I also like the idea of of stale fuel prices - cutting fuel duty when oil prices rise, and vice versa.
FWIW, i do like the Lib Dems and it would be a tough choice between them and tory for me, except for teh fact they plan to cut spending on roads to pay for greener travel. Our road system is awful as it is!
Sim
All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!
"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole
I think I'm in the same boat as Sim on this, I do like what Nick Clegg is doing and he has done a brilliant job at these debates but his stance on trident is rather concerning, and very naive of the modern world.
Yes we do need more of a budget for the armed forces, but leaving us defenceless isn't really the way to do it. Every major and quite a lot of minor players has defences similar to trident, but its not about what they are, more what they represent.
Are you telling me you want Britain, one of the major powers in the world, to have less up its proverbial sleeve than Iran, Korea or ...France? I think Paul Merton summed it up nicely; "Can't we just pretend we have trident? Move some cardboard rockets around every so often on some trailers?"
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2010 01:18AM by 97kirkc.
Yes we do need more of a budget for the armed forces, but leaving us defenceless isn't really the way to do it. Every major and quite a lot of minor players has defences similar to trident, but its not about what they are, more what they represent.
Are you telling me you want Britain, one of the major powers in the world, to have less up its proverbial sleeve than Iran, Korea or ...France? I think Paul Merton summed it up nicely; "Can't we just pretend we have trident? Move some cardboard rockets around every so often on some trailers?"
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2010 01:18AM by 97kirkc.
Sorry but when the hell are we EVER going to use Trident?? Answer: Never! It's a horrific waste of money that could be redistributed into something more worthwhile.
I say cut the "Defence" budget to a quarter of what it currently is, or even less. Redistribute that money into transport, healthcare and education. Are you seriously suggesting that building nuclear defence systems is more important to this country than efficient public transport, quality healthcare or well-educated children?
K*bots UK, specialist providers of 'fun science' Curriculum Enhancement days for Primary and Secondary schools in Britain.
Please find us on [en.wikipedia.org] for more information.
I say cut the "Defence" budget to a quarter of what it currently is, or even less. Redistribute that money into transport, healthcare and education. Are you seriously suggesting that building nuclear defence systems is more important to this country than efficient public transport, quality healthcare or well-educated children?
DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nuclear weapons are funny. Because lets say Iran
> or some naughty country full of brown people
> (because the way the US and UK sees it, only brown
> people can be the bad guys now days), decides they
> want to nuke the UK. So they do. Now lets say we
> have nukes, so we nuke back and level the country,
> and then we get nuked by an ally of the brown
> people, and then the US decides we can't have a
> war without them, so they nuke everyone and
> eventually everyone is dead. Nuclear weapons are
> nothing more than deterrents. There is no point in
> having enough to flatten half of the world,
> because everyone will be dead anyway.
Yeah those brown North Koreans are very very naughty
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nuclear weapons are funny. Because lets say Iran
> or some naughty country full of brown people
> (because the way the US and UK sees it, only brown
> people can be the bad guys now days), decides they
> want to nuke the UK. So they do. Now lets say we
> have nukes, so we nuke back and level the country,
> and then we get nuked by an ally of the brown
> people, and then the US decides we can't have a
> war without them, so they nuke everyone and
> eventually everyone is dead. Nuclear weapons are
> nothing more than deterrents. There is no point in
> having enough to flatten half of the world,
> because everyone will be dead anyway.
Yeah those brown North Koreans are very very naughty
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