NVIDIA GT 220 Nightmare. Any help, or I give up GP4.
Posted by gildoorf
Nice to here from you Mr. Gildoorf,
How much you paid for your graphics card...
Need another shocking news...
I have Nvidia GeForce 210 card... (Which above is 9500 or 9800 series).. Got it for $ 65..
Game Resolution is 1024x768
Texture Detail always Medium
Replay Length 0.18 secs.. Please make a note.. Anything more eats your memory...
Biggest shocker would be... I never played the game in Full Screen...
Since 2005.... (with old PC) Got better results.. Stuck with it...
Even with my new PC, I still run the game in a Window and I love it...
Same goes for F1 2010 as well... You may argue.. what's fun to play a game in a window than full screen..
Performance mate... I have had no issues... Works like a charm.. No harm in a little compromise...
Still say ... GP4 is still the best.. Nothing Gets Closer... !!! Literally...
Still find GP4 hard to swallow.. Put the old dog
to rest err.... sleep .. 
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2011 08:40PM by hasbriale.
How much you paid for your graphics card...
Need another shocking news...
I have Nvidia GeForce 210 card... (Which above is 9500 or 9800 series).. Got it for $ 65..
Game Resolution is 1024x768
Texture Detail always Medium
Replay Length 0.18 secs.. Please make a note.. Anything more eats your memory...
Biggest shocker would be... I never played the game in Full Screen...
Since 2005.... (with old PC) Got better results.. Stuck with it...
Even with my new PC, I still run the game in a Window and I love it...
Same goes for F1 2010 as well... You may argue.. what's fun to play a game in a window than full screen..
Performance mate... I have had no issues... Works like a charm.. No harm in a little compromise...
Still say ... GP4 is still the best.. Nothing Gets Closer... !!! Literally...
Still find GP4 hard to swallow.. Put the old dog
to rest err.... sleep .. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2011 08:40PM by hasbriale.
I think that is no videocard problem... maybe is a processor problem...
In my notebook Core i3, the F1 2010 from Codemasters runs GREAT! But GP4, without ANY mod, just the clean game, the PO and the graphics are VERY WEIRD and SLOW... but in my old PC Core 2 Duo the game runs great.... so I think the problem is the new processors, not the videocards.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE VISIT: Grand Prix Mods Blog
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2011 03:17AM by kerleyf1.
In my notebook Core i3, the F1 2010 from Codemasters runs GREAT! But GP4, without ANY mod, just the clean game, the PO and the graphics are VERY WEIRD and SLOW... but in my old PC Core 2 Duo the game runs great.... so I think the problem is the new processors, not the videocards.
PLEASE VISIT: Grand Prix Mods Blog
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2011 03:17AM by kerleyf1.
Hi there
@Mr. Hasbriale: Your valuable advices are related to PO. My issue is more related to win 7 directx 11 unsuitability to gp4 directx 9. This was my point after some testing with Paulo. It seems new directx 11 is not friend to crossed meshes or faces superposition at .gp4 files. Blended objects are visible at windows xp, though way more sutil.
I´m not so sure, but it seems the better our PC specs are, far away (so worst) to standard gp4 engine it gets.
I thought it could be solved if I simply put these crossed meshes at different scenes, but it´s just part of the solution. We really need to separate meshes so visually it becomes stable in game.
@Paulo: I solved blending for ING advert and Spa Main Stand roof by just replacing them to a different scene. Same for trees at Eau Rouge.
Good news is that we know how to minimize this ugly issue while track making. I´m able to sleep better for a while.
And let´s wait for directx update someday to fix this: I think it´s the key...
My f1graphics, though I doubt there would raise some answer there...
[rapidshare.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2011 05:50AM by gildoorf.
@Mr. Hasbriale: Your valuable advices are related to PO. My issue is more related to win 7 directx 11 unsuitability to gp4 directx 9. This was my point after some testing with Paulo. It seems new directx 11 is not friend to crossed meshes or faces superposition at .gp4 files. Blended objects are visible at windows xp, though way more sutil.
I´m not so sure, but it seems the better our PC specs are, far away (so worst) to standard gp4 engine it gets.
I thought it could be solved if I simply put these crossed meshes at different scenes, but it´s just part of the solution. We really need to separate meshes so visually it becomes stable in game.
@Paulo: I solved blending for ING advert and Spa Main Stand roof by just replacing them to a different scene. Same for trees at Eau Rouge.
Good news is that we know how to minimize this ugly issue while track making. I´m able to sleep better for a while.
And let´s wait for directx update someday to fix this: I think it´s the key...
My f1graphics, though I doubt there would raise some answer there...
[rapidshare.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2011 05:50AM by gildoorf.
i rember that sometimes quite similar happened to my old pc... And monaco is always a FPS killer, since GP2...
The point is I don't rember if this was a driver issue, or GP4 one... Anyway one solution will delete your actual f1graphics and f1gstate (made a backup), made the autographics set, then import your old f1 graphics values
Actually you could try to update your videocard with Forceware 266.58 drivers...
My workthread with all RELEASED and WIP stuff
The point is I don't rember if this was a driver issue, or GP4 one... Anyway one solution will delete your actual f1graphics and f1gstate (made a backup), made the autographics set, then import your old f1 graphics values
Actually you could try to update your videocard with Forceware 266.58 drivers...
@Rob Teufel: I have downloaded new 270.61 driver for GT 220. What´s the difference between a driver and a forceware?
Is it going to enhance driver or replace it?
Is it going to enhance driver or replace it?
Do you always upgrade your GCard at this time of the year Gildoorf? It's almost a year to the day since the orginal post.
I just find that mildly amusing.
I just find that mildly amusing.
Our graphics cards become better over the years - now we play GP4 on 20+ inches TTF with AA and AF all cranked up - every little graphics glitch is more visible than three, four years ago. Objects that pop up, shimmering textures and and - most were even not noticable some years ago.
The crossed meshes - I hope I got it right - can be an issue on XP too. Example: ttm's Melbourne and Monza track have many tree objects which cut through fence objects. Both have (semi)transparent textures. Quiet a challenge for graphic driver and/or dx to get all the clipping and filtering done. The result can be high PO (especially if TSSAA is used) or unexpected rendering.
Now my point is that track editing should rise to the challenge. Perhaps it isn't "good" modelling in GP4 to make side-lines part of the track-verge object or to cross meshes (objects) with (semi)transparent textures and let the renderer handle it ...
Another thing:
Thank you and all involved for Spa 2009
A question: shouldn't the slope on the left hand side at the final part of Les Combes have a shadow like the track has?
cheers
xandy
The crossed meshes - I hope I got it right - can be an issue on XP too. Example: ttm's Melbourne and Monza track have many tree objects which cut through fence objects. Both have (semi)transparent textures. Quiet a challenge for graphic driver and/or dx to get all the clipping and filtering done. The result can be high PO (especially if TSSAA is used) or unexpected rendering.
Now my point is that track editing should rise to the challenge. Perhaps it isn't "good" modelling in GP4 to make side-lines part of the track-verge object or to cross meshes (objects) with (semi)transparent textures and let the renderer handle it ...
Another thing:
Thank you and all involved for Spa 2009
A question: shouldn't the slope on the left hand side at the final part of Les Combes have a shadow like the track has?
cheers
xandy
@Pibbs: my GCard always FAIL at this time of the year hehehe...
I´ve read on a forum that it might work if One runs gp4 on a XP SP3 compatibility mode, would it be helpful somehow?
@xandy, thanks for feedback. What you mean when you clame "it isn't "good" modelling in GP4 to make side-lines part of the track-verge object or to cross meshes (objects) with (semi)transparent textures"?
@quickslick, I´ll have to do it tonight only...
I´ve read on a forum that it might work if One runs gp4 on a XP SP3 compatibility mode, would it be helpful somehow?
@xandy, thanks for feedback. What you mean when you clame "it isn't "good" modelling in GP4 to make side-lines part of the track-verge object or to cross meshes (objects) with (semi)transparent textures"?
@quickslick, I´ll have to do it tonight only...
Hi Gildoorf
Don't post too much here, but appreciate your work, so hopefully can offer you some help. Having just upgraded my graphics card recently, I ran into some different issues. I'm running on XP, with DX9, but DX11 should have compatability modes.
1. Forceware is nVidias brand of driver - there's a lot of variants(plus betas) out there, so they can cause issues
2. Try running DX Diagnostic tool from the run area of Win7, by typing dxdiag and hitting enter
3. Update DirectX from Microsofts site using the web set-up tool
4. If you think the problem is driver related, try a different driver package(newer isn't always better btw, especially for older games)
5. Before installing new/old drivers be sure to uninstall old ones and clean remnants away - have a look here for information and the tool to download and use: [www.guru3d.com]
It's safe to use, just read the instructions beforehand.
6. Try disabling other hardware - I had one occasion of sound card drivers being corrupted by a graphics card update!!
Don't post too much here, but appreciate your work, so hopefully can offer you some help. Having just upgraded my graphics card recently, I ran into some different issues. I'm running on XP, with DX9, but DX11 should have compatability modes.
1. Forceware is nVidias brand of driver - there's a lot of variants(plus betas) out there, so they can cause issues
2. Try running DX Diagnostic tool from the run area of Win7, by typing dxdiag and hitting enter
3. Update DirectX from Microsofts site using the web set-up tool
4. If you think the problem is driver related, try a different driver package(newer isn't always better btw, especially for older games)
5. Before installing new/old drivers be sure to uninstall old ones and clean remnants away - have a look here for information and the tool to download and use: [www.guru3d.com]
It's safe to use, just read the instructions beforehand.
6. Try disabling other hardware - I had one occasion of sound card drivers being corrupted by a graphics card update!!
Continued.....
7. If you want to monitor your graphics card usage, temperatures etc, try this: [www.filehippo.com]
8. Just had a look at my profile, it's slightly different to yours, but my card is a lot older, it's a GF7950 running 197.45 Forceware drivers. I can post the differences if you want to try any.
Hope these ideas give you something to work with.
Kev
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2011 10:47PM by Dinga.
7. If you want to monitor your graphics card usage, temperatures etc, try this: [www.filehippo.com]
8. Just had a look at my profile, it's slightly different to yours, but my card is a lot older, it's a GF7950 running 197.45 Forceware drivers. I can post the differences if you want to try any.
Hope these ideas give you something to work with.
Kev
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2011 10:47PM by Dinga.
Sorry - English isn't my native language.
Yes, GP4 is an old game and the graphics engine isn't up to modern standards. But GP4 may be flexible enough to resolve some issues now visible with powerful GPUs and all the filters/shaders through careful track modelling (assisted of course by the great GP4 Builder).
The side line issue I discussed in this thread:
Few years ago the shimmering wouldn't be noticable with lower screen res and less filtering. But now even on a f1virtual track you can see it. Barcelona 2009 - after Renault turn - right side from cockpit / T-Cam view - there are some artifacts where track and sideline are joinded.
I'm not sure that I speak about the same problem you called "crossed vertexes". Take a look at ttm's Melbourne track:
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Tree objects cut through fence objects - even the opaque part of the texture goes through the fence. Does GP4 know that tree branches can't go through fences? I don't think so. The filter/shader chain has to resolve clipping and filtering. I have a similar GPU to yours. Go round Melbourne with TV view - then set Transparency Anti-Aliasing to 4x or 8x Supersampling in Nvidia Property Page and do a second round in Melbourne - you will see a jump of PO on the parts of the tracks where the tree/fence problem is.
My suggestion was that careful track modelling may avoid such pitfalls. Supersampling is nice to have. Perhaps making sure that no opaque parts of textures of one object crosses with another transparent textures of a second object may solve the problem. Perhaps the "crossing" of object's boundaries must be avoided completely.
I'm no expert
Yes, GP4 is an old game and the graphics engine isn't up to modern standards. But GP4 may be flexible enough to resolve some issues now visible with powerful GPUs and all the filters/shaders through careful track modelling (assisted of course by the great GP4 Builder).
The side line issue I discussed in this thread:
Few years ago the shimmering wouldn't be noticable with lower screen res and less filtering. But now even on a f1virtual track you can see it. Barcelona 2009 - after Renault turn - right side from cockpit / T-Cam view - there are some artifacts where track and sideline are joinded.
I'm not sure that I speak about the same problem you called "crossed vertexes". Take a look at ttm's Melbourne track:
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Tree objects cut through fence objects - even the opaque part of the texture goes through the fence. Does GP4 know that tree branches can't go through fences? I don't think so. The filter/shader chain has to resolve clipping and filtering. I have a similar GPU to yours. Go round Melbourne with TV view - then set Transparency Anti-Aliasing to 4x or 8x Supersampling in Nvidia Property Page and do a second round in Melbourne - you will see a jump of PO on the parts of the tracks where the tree/fence problem is.
My suggestion was that careful track modelling may avoid such pitfalls. Supersampling is nice to have. Perhaps making sure that no opaque parts of textures of one object crosses with another transparent textures of a second object may solve the problem. Perhaps the "crossing" of object's boundaries must be avoided completely.
I'm no expert
Hey Gildoorf 
Sorry to hear about your problems with gp4 these problems are partly why I have not played it for a year or so now There's just no time for me to try and fix the issues I've had. Regarding the blending issue is it like is: [www.grandprixgames.org]
As I had that problem when I switched from an 8800GTS to an ATI 4870. I could never find a fix and thoight it was only sn ATI issue. So when I upgraded again to a GeForce 460 I hoped my problems would have gone, but alas they still remain unfixed.
I tried a few thing which I think I explained in my other thread, I'd be interested to know if you are having the same problem.
Great to see so many dedicated GP4 players sticking around, even if I have been away myself for a while
Best of luck, I'd love to know if you find a fix :D
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Sorry to hear about your problems with gp4
these problems are partly why I have not played it for a year or so now There's just no time for me to try and fix the issues I've had. Regarding the blending issue is it like is: [www.grandprixgames.org]As I had that problem when I switched from an 8800GTS to an ATI 4870. I could never find a fix and thoight it was only sn ATI issue. So when I upgraded again to a GeForce 460 I hoped my problems would have gone, but alas they still remain unfixed.
I tried a few thing which I think I explained in my other thread, I'd be interested to know if you are having the same problem.
Great to see so many dedicated GP4 players sticking around, even if I have been away myself for a while
Best of luck, I'd love to know if you find a fix :D
__________________________
Help keep our forums tidy.
Use the search function...
gildoorf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Rob Teufel: I have downloaded new 270.61 driver for GT 220. What´s the difference between a driver and a forceware?
>
> Is it going to enhance driver or replace it?
as Dinga wrote Forceware is nVidias brand of driver, the official ones. They enhance overall performance (expecially on new games).
Another solution is this one [www.grandprixgames.org] (last post from Excalibur) or use Zaz's 2gb remove limit.cap if you're a CSM user.
My workthread with all RELEASED and WIP stuff
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Rob Teufel: I have downloaded new 270.61 driver for GT 220. What´s the difference between a driver and a forceware?
>
> Is it going to enhance driver or replace it?
as Dinga wrote Forceware is nVidias brand of driver, the official ones. They enhance overall performance (expecially on new games).
Another solution is this one [www.grandprixgames.org] (last post from Excalibur) or use Zaz's 2gb remove limit.cap if you're a CSM user.
Hi you all, and many thanks for feedback...
Well, after some tests, some of them based on your tips, this is my point:
1. Problem is not related to NVIDIA drivers. I´m quite sure it´s related to the fact GP4 is developed over directx 9 basis and windows 7 run directx11. Laurent told me he has no flickering problem so it´s not 100% clear to me yet.
2. Flickering or blend effect is fully related to 3d objects proximity. It´s solved by tweaking faces normal, separating crossed faces, and displacing objects into different scenes. Problem is not 100% solved because it works for some scenes and other don´t.
3. @xandy: New PC and GFCard specs demand a whole new trackmaking approach. It sucks, though it´s a fact.
@willB, unfortunately, it´s the kind of effect you gotta be used to.
Hopefully new directx upgrades may solve this issue, but I doubt it.
Good news is that I have not experienced this bad effect at new WIP tracks such as Algarve, Istanbul 2011, Shanghai 2011 and Silverstone 2009. Monaco and Adelaide still remains some bad looking trees and horizon, and now we have the way to solve that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2011 01:37AM by gildoorf.
Well, after some tests, some of them based on your tips, this is my point:
1. Problem is not related to NVIDIA drivers. I´m quite sure it´s related to the fact GP4 is developed over directx 9 basis and windows 7 run directx11. Laurent told me he has no flickering problem so it´s not 100% clear to me yet.
2. Flickering or blend effect is fully related to 3d objects proximity. It´s solved by tweaking faces normal, separating crossed faces, and displacing objects into different scenes. Problem is not 100% solved because it works for some scenes and other don´t.
3. @xandy: New PC and GFCard specs demand a whole new trackmaking approach. It sucks, though it´s a fact.
@willB, unfortunately, it´s the kind of effect you gotta be used to.
Hopefully new directx upgrades may solve this issue, but I doubt it.
Good news is that I have not experienced this bad effect at new WIP tracks such as Algarve, Istanbul 2011, Shanghai 2011 and Silverstone 2009. Monaco and Adelaide still remains some bad looking trees and horizon, and now we have the way to solve that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2011 01:37AM by gildoorf.
Hi gildorf,
I agree with 32BOBO32.
The easiest thing is to simply install XP on a small part of your HD. By the use of a boot manager you can then choose after the start which OS is used. I use an i7 930 (Quad Core) and a NVidia GTX-460 and GP4 runs smoother than ever on my PC when I run it in XP. However, I also ran GP4 on Win7 a while ago and had neither the blending nor the merging effect you're talking of. Yet I had instability issues which made me install it in XP again. Strange thing however.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
I agree with 32BOBO32.
The easiest thing is to simply install XP on a small part of your HD. By the use of a boot manager you can then choose after the start which OS is used. I use an i7 930 (Quad Core) and a NVidia GTX-460 and GP4 runs smoother than ever on my PC when I run it in XP. However, I also ran GP4 on Win7 a while ago and had neither the blending nor the merging effect you're talking of. Yet I had instability issues which made me install it in XP again. Strange thing however.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
well, no confirmation is needed for this because it's there since game is released (no offense to you xandy, your comment is wise).
DXT5+full transparency textures must be reserved for very specific things, like fences or windows (with lots of rules to follow in order it works correctly). And every other transparent texture must be DXT1 or 5 but with opaque / semi-transparency only or you will result with back objects coming in front of front ones.
Another solution is to use a high def fence with semi-transpency. This way you have more freedom to use DXT5+ full transparency in other objects.
Using 2 stripes of DXT5+full transparency is possible though but it needs small objects with separated parts to be sure the engine recognize wich part is in front and wich is at the back.
I'm astonished that Gildoorf would suffer of this trouble anyway as I'm pretty sure he is aware of this restriction in DXT type texture usage.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2011 06:08PM by Lo2k.
DXT5+full transparency textures must be reserved for very specific things, like fences or windows (with lots of rules to follow in order it works correctly). And every other transparent texture must be DXT1 or 5 but with opaque / semi-transparency only or you will result with back objects coming in front of front ones.
Another solution is to use a high def fence with semi-transpency. This way you have more freedom to use DXT5+ full transparency in other objects.
Using 2 stripes of DXT5+full transparency is possible though but it needs small objects with separated parts to be sure the engine recognize wich part is in front and wich is at the back.
I'm astonished that Gildoorf would suffer of this trouble anyway as I'm pretty sure he is aware of this restriction in DXT type texture usage.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2011 06:08PM by Lo2k.
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