let pcgamer know how you feel about GP4's dissapointing news of missing items

Posted by LS. 
send them a email at cables@futurenet.co.uk this for the letters page,

tell them exactly how dissapointed and angry you at being ripped off again,
same old engine, no safety car, no penalties etc


i am, and when you have sent a mail to pcgamer, post it here so others can see how your feelings are in regard to crammond and co




heres what i sent




After reading the report by Trevor Witt about Gp4 in last months issue, i thought you might like to know how the Crammond fan base feel about it.

Firstly to read about the non inclusion of penaltys and rev limiter in the pitlane is just unbelivable, the gp community have been asking for this since gp2,

We saw nothing of them in gp3 or the season 2000 add-on, and now it would seem not in gp4 either.

these are just a small number of things that we feel we are constantly having to shell out for in upgrades, but still not getting

if you want a true reflection of how Crammonds cash cows feel take a look at these sites

[dynamic2.gamespy.com]



[www.grandprix3.com]


if Crammonds wants to continue his franchise of the GP series, he better take a look to see what his customers would like, as opposed to releasing upgrades all the time






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
Re: let pcgamer know how you feel about GP4's dissapointing news of missing items
Date: March 29, 2002 07:42AM
Posted by: Anonymous User
Although i will buy the game, and i believe it will be very good, i am also annoyed at the "cash cows" :

this is my letter ;) :

"GP4 - Disappointment for GPx Community!

Geoff Crammond is damn good at making computer games. Gp3 is still to be unbeaten as the F1 sim, but by creating GP4 which promised so much but looks like delievering so little, he is treading in a very fine line.

The GPX community is a very good one and i am pleased to be part of it. People have edited his game and brought it up to date and better than before. But should be really be the ones having to do this?? We splash out our money on a game, but we are the ones putting the hard work into it. yes it has great gameplay and handling and new graphics, but the updated Gp3 has this.

Geoff needs to listen to his fans and hear what they have to say. By not including a safety car, formation lap, career, updated steering wheels and many other things, that to you may sound "niggly" he is losing out to his competetors and losing fans.

I know i speak for most of the Gpx community by saying that GP4 may well end up being a huge disappointment."

When Geoff Crammond and Infogrames announced to bring out Grand Prix 4 this year, I was really looking forward to playing it.
When I saw the first screenshots I was more than just happy to see how much the graphics have obviously been improved compared to GP3.
When I know read the list of features implemented in the game, I can hardly believe my eyes:

- NO safety car
- NO stop and go penalties
- NO individual steering wheels for each team
- NO internet gaming support
- NO run-off safety areas in the track models
- STILL using the old (however tweaked) GP3 graphics engine
- apparently still the old file format
- etc.

Thank you very much, Mr.Crammond. You know what the people really want, don't you? Better stick it to your X-box users, PC gamers want a "realistic" simulation and that includes the proper implementation of the FIA rules (like flags, penalties, etc.).

There have been a hell of lot discussions going on in the various GPX forums on the net, where the people who BUY games (and thus pay Crammond and Co) state what they would like to have in the game. One of these forums is the grandprix3.com forum (http://www.grandprix3.com/forum/) which I feel honoured to participate in. Just have a look at what's going on there, Mr. Crammond. Have a look at what YOUR fans think about being milked like cash cows. I will certainly think about really buying the game. If the service is bad, why should I pay for it?








REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS
Hi guys, here's my email;

PC gamer,

It seems that Mr Crammond has chosen to make gp3.5, not gp4. Of course, weve seen this before; many people in the gpx community called gp3 gp2.5

Yes, the graphics are better, yes we have a few other improvements, but it seems that a big jump has NOT been made, once again. The inclusion of motion capture pitcrew has mproved perhaps the worst area of gp3: the pitlane. I think we are all sick of being controlled in the pitlane, in other f1 sims, such as f1 2001 the player can select the pit limiter themselves, but not so in gp3.5 apparently.

The lack of new features since gp3 2000 disgusts me, I know Mr rammond could do more, but I feel he is saving it for his final installment of the gpx series, gp5. I have no doubt this game will be incredible, but it seems gp4 is suffering in new content in order to keep features available for gp5.

I think I speak for muh of the community when I say that the lack of the developers' interest in the fans' opinions is shameful. Although Nick Court seems happy enough to give an interview to a member of the community (Matti Latinen)the suggestions and critcisms made just don't appear to make the slightest difference.

To mr crammond, the fans JUST DON'T MATTER.

Chris Jones, London
Yo Sup

Actaully the fans dont really matter to any of the big boys. Do you think when he had the idea of making the GP serires it was cos he wanted to make al the F1 fans happy? No, otherwise he would have put in all the things inot GP4 we wanted. Why is he waiting till GP5 to put them in? Cso he knows we'll buy it when it comes out, just like we have all dont with GP3, GP3 2000, and soon GP4. Hes only in it for money otherwise he could have out in safety car, stop 'n' go etc etc etc. But he'll wait until GP5 for that so he can double his income. THEN, if hes still money hungry, GP6 will be out too, and again, more money for him.

Hes not losing money is he? And fans are getting pissed off.




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps
hey ellis instead of telling us what we already now, why not post to the magazine?

afterall this what the thread is devoted to






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
Yo Sup

Im going to, im might as well copy and paste it




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps
Yo Sup

I copy and pasted it into an email and sent it.




Racing Is Life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting
Jesus may be able to heal the sick and bring the dead back to life, but he can't do shît for low fps
come on people send your mail and get pressure put on crammond from his publishers

if enough people shout about it, they'll get to hear about it

if they think that they're not going to sell the estimated number of copys of gp4 gp5 gp6 then they'll pressure crammond to something about it


he would have got millions for this 5 year contract, are you prepared tp wait til gp6 for every feature???? and buy the other upfrades on the way to gp6?

send your comments now!!!





please :-)

you'll thank me for this one day






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
You know what? I'll write another!

Here comes another scathing email, whatch out pcgamer...you'll need oven gloves for this one!

Chris J
My e-mail...........

PC Gamer,

Geoff Crammond has always given us good formula 1 games.
When GP2 came out, it was the best F1 game available.
No other game could compete against it.
It had amazing graphics, physics and was extremely fun to play.

FOUR years later, GP3 came out.
One would expect that in 4 years, Geoff Crammond & his team could have created the ultimate F1 game.
WHY? They already had a great physics engine. All they needed to do was improve the graphics and add realistic features to the game.
This was not what happened - GP3 was what some call it: GP2.5.
It was Grand Prix 2 with improved graphics.
Did it satisfy fans? Not really, but they still bought it since at the time, no other F1 game was as good as GP3.
Then GP3 2000 came out. Once again, GP3 2000 was merely an updated version of GP3.
Many fans were disappointed and the fans' trust in the Grand Prix series was decreasing.

And now, GRAND PRIX 4 - Nothing Gets Closer.
From the first few screenshots, we could clearly see GP4 had a new graphics engine.
It was quite an improvement. Now each car had its own unique shape.
They told us they would have animated pit crews, Pitbox TV, T-cam view etc.
Ok, so finally Geoff Crammond was creating the game that so many people wanted.
So far so good...
And now, we get to know that GP4 has:
- NO safety car
- NO stop and go penalties
- NO individual steering wheels for each team
- NO hands on steering wheel in cockpit view
- NO internet gaming support
- NO run-off safety areas in the track models
- STILL using the old (however tweaked) GP3 graphics engine
- apparently still the old file format
- etc.
And GP4's logo says: Nothing Gets Closer. Don't make us laugh Geoff!
Does it take Einstein to realize that fans want more than what they are currently developing?

So once again, GP4 will be GP3.5, Grand Prix 3 with better graphics.
Just one problem - Now, there are other F1 games that will not only compete with GP4, but will be ultimately even better.
This means that unless Geoff and his team decide to implement some of the above features, many fans will find that buying another F1 game is a better option.

In an interview, Nick Court said that they didn't have time to code such features since they were busy making the graphics engine.
IS THIS TRULY THE REASON? Of course it's not.
Companies like EA manage to make F1 games with amazing graphics and many realistic features for even more formats in less then a year!
So did Geoff and his team spend 2 whole years making nothing other than a graphics engine?
And let's be honest, GP4's graphics are very good, but I'm sure they could be much better.

Nick also said amazing graphics was on the top of the fans wanted list.
While this might and I repeat MIGHT be true, it doesn't mean they should spend the whole development process developing a new graphics engine!

I guess Geoff and his team should have seen what all the fans wanted before they started the GP4 development.
Yes, it might be too late now, but I'm sure many are willing to wait more to get certain realistic features included in the final game.

Otherwise, I'm sure GP4 will disappoint its fans, like GP3 did and eventually the grand prix series will lose all its popularity.
Geoff, is this the way to treat the gamers that have given you so much wealth and popularity?
I hope not.

Marc von Brockdorff, Malta



Marc
-=-=-=-=-

wow marc what can i say but well done :-)






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
Gentlemen,

Thank you for your e-mails - point taken! I knew something was up when a dozen mails were received on the same subject in one afternoon.

As the game is nearly ready for review, I'm afraid there's little to be done now. We'll make sure that whoever reviews it is aware of the perceived shortcomings, but ultimately GP4 will be reviewed on its own merits.

As for making your voices heard, while we can offer a little publicity in our letters pages, you'd be better off addressing serious grievances directly to Crammond's team - or Infogrames, the UK publisher.

Cheers,

Ross
PC GAMER
And you said "Nobody will listen to us anyway ..."








REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS
Re: let pcgamer know how you feel about GP4's dissapointing news of missing items
Date: April 02, 2002 07:26AM
Posted by: Anonymous User
Wow never believed that we woukld get someone this important posting on our forum.....

Re: let pcgamer know how you feel about GP4's dissapointing news of missing items
Date: April 02, 2002 07:38AM
Posted by: Anonymous User
Wow if it really is Mean Mr Mustard, Ross atherton himself, it may possibly be the forums finest hour (except when i arrived of course ;)). TYhose who do not know who this fellow is, must go and buy Pc Gamer at once and look for the pic of a balding man called Ross, normally accompanied by a joke about the amount of money he has

i sent Ross a thankyou email on behalf of us for replying

heres what i put


"
WOW! thanks for replying to our plight Ross.

Thankyou for taking time out from the slave drivers at PC Gamer to acknowledge our efforts in regard to GP4.

Our intention was to let you know that we were uphappy with the ommissions from the next installment of GP4 (which i'm sure were well documented :-)

We spoke about contacting Geoff Crammonds company and infogrammes too, but to be honest we never expected to hear anything.
We tried to contact them about GP3 when the rumours were circulating about the 2000 season add-on to see if they were going to include stuff we'd been crying out for since GP2.

We felt at least we could try and grace the pages of your letters section and let the part time race sim fans know that we were'nt happy about being ignored again.

I accept that you produce the magzines weeks before it hit the shelves in the shops, and we were'nt expecting any kind full scale article about the GP3 masses rising up and revolting against the infogrammes/Crammond empire.

Just a little acknowledgement that the communtity is aware of what is going on would suffice, and although we have but a little voice in the great scheme of things in the PC industry; we would like to make our voice heard.

Once again, thank you Ross for acknowledging our plight.

Shame that makers of GP4 tend not to.


regards"






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
what a guy!! smoke him a kipper he'll be back for breakfast :-)


ross replied immaediatly to my email, and it looks as if he's on our side with regard to grievences (although not neccesarily level at gp4 but games in general)


Hi Ste,

You're quite welcome. I take this kind of thing seriously.

What I'd suggest is this. Wait until the game is out - shouldn't be long
according to my sources. Play it. Read our review. Then formulate your
grievances into a beautifully honed letter. Send it in to me, reminding me
about this conversation, and I'll make sure it not only goes into Cables at the
first opportunity (though you may have a bit of a wait as those pages are done
quite early on) but that we also get someone at Infogrames to respond; maybe
the game's Producer. I know you're all very clued up about the game's content,
but it's only fair to wait till it's finished to really stick the boot in - the
same reason we restrain from serious criticism in our previews, which tend to
focus on what's in rather than what's not for the obvious reason that things
can, indeed, be added.

Thanks for your interest in Gamer; and rest assured that I am not, in fact, all
that important.

Feel free to circulate this to the community.

Cheers,

Ross












thanks again ross, it makes all the difference getting acknowledgements from industry insiders






LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
Re: let pcgamer know how you feel about GP4's dissapointing news of missing items
Date: April 02, 2002 08:19AM
Posted by: Anonymous User
yeah what a dude

Okay, now we are going somewhere! A big round of applause for this one LS. If we get this right, we might actually be able to open a permanent communication channel with the GP team.

We better get our act together and pool our brains and writing abilities. The better that letter is written, and the more people that sign it, the better chances we got! Lets make this one a community effort. One of the best we have ever done.





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