GPGSL S15 - R14: British Grand Prix - Silverstone
Posted by GPGSL
Yes, great tables. Very nice!
-----------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
Soutsen schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I might be dumb or something but I dont get
> either part of your message. What results of Tobi
> was 7, 11, 4, 4, 6? Whaddaya mean even? Tell me
> what races do you mean (RAC'XX format like AUS'11
> so on) because I'm lost with what you're trying to
> say. And 'your' 2, 3, 2, 3, 6, 7, 3, 5, 2 - again
> I just don't see such anywhere I posted... Like
> whhaaaaaat really? Where do you look to find such
> numbers like these?
>
> And you haven't answered how one can legitimately
> do a 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2 streak. Thanks
>
> For Paulo and others who interested an Excel
> sheet with the calculations.
>
> One quick comment using one screenshot from it:
> [i.imgur.com]
> It just stands out how Tobias' average position is
> 8,12 while for others it is 10-12 (around 11 as it
> is the middle number for the 22 cars that enter
> the competition), how his average position under
> his own control is 5,19 while for others it is
> again around 9-12, and how his average non-boosted
> position under his own control is 6,23 while for
> others it is less then 11, lol
Fair enough, I didn't explain it properly.
First of all, when you came up with the 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2 streak you are assuming that he would have had exactly those results if noone had boosted, right? This can not be known due to the variance in the perf. It is absolutely possible that someone using a boost who finished ahead of him would have finished ahead of him without a boost as well. I think it is misleading to present the numbers like that.
To illustrate, I took all my race results where I didn't use a boost and just checked what my position amongst the non-boosters was (I left out season openers and DNFs and I think s11 Malaysian GP). That is how I arrived at my 2, 3, 2, 3, 6, 7, 3, 5, 2 streak. Again - exactly the same as you did for Tobi's streak except for the first two wins. E.g. the first "2" corresponds to my 10th place in the s11 Italian GP where 8 people with a boost finished in front of me. Now would anyone argue I would have finished in those positions had noone boosted? I doubt that. So I don't think it is the correct reasoning in Tobi's case as well.
Two post ago I proved that there is a significant chance for Tobi to RD a set of races with an average finising position 5 places better than his overall average just by coincidence. So I now checked what Tobi's results were in races where he did not boost and did not RD (except season openers and DNFs again) in comparison to the other unboosted drivers. The same as you did just for the races he did not RD. Here I got 7, 11, 4, 4, 6 E.g. the first 7 corresponds to S11 RSA run by you. The average of those position is 6.4. The average of his unboosted races while being RD (i.e. 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2) is 1.4. Exactly 5 places better on average, as one would expect from looking at his overall results. It must be that way, regardless of whether he cheated or not. The point I am trying to make is that this is not new information and is covered by the calculation I made earlier.
used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2021 01:45PM by n00binio.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I might be dumb or something but I dont get
> either part of your message. What results of Tobi
> was 7, 11, 4, 4, 6? Whaddaya mean even? Tell me
> what races do you mean (RAC'XX format like AUS'11
> so on) because I'm lost with what you're trying to
> say. And 'your' 2, 3, 2, 3, 6, 7, 3, 5, 2 - again
> I just don't see such anywhere I posted... Like
> whhaaaaaat really? Where do you look to find such
> numbers like these?
>
> And you haven't answered how one can legitimately
> do a 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2 streak. Thanks
>
> For Paulo and others who interested an Excel
> sheet with the calculations.
>
> One quick comment using one screenshot from it:
> [i.imgur.com]
> It just stands out how Tobias' average position is
> 8,12 while for others it is 10-12 (around 11 as it
> is the middle number for the 22 cars that enter
> the competition), how his average position under
> his own control is 5,19 while for others it is
> again around 9-12, and how his average non-boosted
> position under his own control is 6,23 while for
> others it is less then 11, lol
Fair enough, I didn't explain it properly.
First of all, when you came up with the 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2 streak you are assuming that he would have had exactly those results if noone had boosted, right? This can not be known due to the variance in the perf. It is absolutely possible that someone using a boost who finished ahead of him would have finished ahead of him without a boost as well. I think it is misleading to present the numbers like that.
To illustrate, I took all my race results where I didn't use a boost and just checked what my position amongst the non-boosters was (I left out season openers and DNFs and I think s11 Malaysian GP). That is how I arrived at my 2, 3, 2, 3, 6, 7, 3, 5, 2 streak. Again - exactly the same as you did for Tobi's streak except for the first two wins. E.g. the first "2" corresponds to my 10th place in the s11 Italian GP where 8 people with a boost finished in front of me. Now would anyone argue I would have finished in those positions had noone boosted? I doubt that. So I don't think it is the correct reasoning in Tobi's case as well.
Two post ago I proved that there is a significant chance for Tobi to RD a set of races with an average finising position 5 places better than his overall average just by coincidence. So I now checked what Tobi's results were in races where he did not boost and did not RD (except season openers and DNFs again) in comparison to the other unboosted drivers. The same as you did just for the races he did not RD. Here I got 7, 11, 4, 4, 6 E.g. the first 7 corresponds to S11 RSA run by you. The average of those position is 6.4. The average of his unboosted races while being RD (i.e. 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2) is 1.4. Exactly 5 places better on average, as one would expect from looking at his overall results. It must be that way, regardless of whether he cheated or not. The point I am trying to make is that this is not new information and is covered by the calculation I made earlier.
used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2021 01:45PM by n00binio.
giomich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tough race for us, it was expected but still. The
> car looks gorgeous at least
Somehow I managed to set the fastest lap, so at least we achieved something
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tough race for us, it was expected but still. The
> car looks gorgeous at least
Somehow I managed to set the fastest lap, so at least we achieved something
Turbo Lover Schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm out of popcorn, need to go to the supermarket.
Bring some back for me as well, Ruben!
GPGSL-3: VTR Driver, S4~S11 (2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3th, 4th, 3th, 2nd)(Constructorstitel S7 & S9)
GPGSL-4: ONE Racing Driver, S8~S11 // TYRANT Racing Driver, S12:1st, S13:13th, S14:1st, S15:13th //
WREXHAM Motorsports Racing Driver S16: ?
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm out of popcorn, need to go to the supermarket.
Bring some back for me as well, Ruben!
GPGSL-3: VTR Driver, S4~S11 (2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3th, 4th, 3th, 2nd)(Constructorstitel S7 & S9)
GPGSL-4: ONE Racing Driver, S8~S11 // TYRANT Racing Driver, S12:1st, S13:13th, S14:1st, S15:13th //
WREXHAM Motorsports Racing Driver S16: ?
SchueyFan Schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liking the look of those tables (apart from my
> involvement)
I like them as well, but I think there is room for some improvement: country names should not be typed out, just the flag is enough, and I am not sure what "PG 10 places" means?
Christel VXR driver #6.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liking the look of those tables (apart from my
> involvement)
I like them as well, but I think there is room for some improvement: country names should not be typed out, just the flag is enough, and I am not sure what "PG 10 places" means?
Christel VXR driver #6.
Not gonna lie, while I was reading the tables the F1 theme tune was humming in my head
A good start of the season for me, for a change. What's not changed is that darn tendency for performance to only grace one of the cars. Still got some stuff to iron out.
Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps
A good start of the season for me, for a change. What's not changed is that darn tendency for performance to only grace one of the cars. Still got some stuff to iron out.
Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps
Darksoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SchueyFan Schreef:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Liking the look of those tables (apart from my
> > involvement)
>
>
> I like them as well, but I think there is room for
> some improvement: country names should not be
> typed out, just the flag is enough, and I am not
> sure what "PG 10 places" means?
Positions gained. So it writes who gained most positions.
-------------------------------------------------------
> SchueyFan Schreef:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Liking the look of those tables (apart from my
> > involvement)
>
>
> I like them as well, but I think there is room for
> some improvement: country names should not be
> typed out, just the flag is enough, and I am not
> sure what "PG 10 places" means?
Positions gained. So it writes who gained most positions.
I can say that I really love the look of new tables, they are gorgeous 
n00binio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To illustrate, I took all my race results where I
> didn't use a boost and just checked what my
> position amongst the non-boosters was (I left out
> season openers and DNFs and I think s11 Malaysian
> GP). That is how I arrived at my 2, 3, 2, 3, 6, 7,
> 3, 5, 2 streak. Again - exactly the same as you
> did for Tobi's streak except for the first two
> wins. E.g. the first "2" corresponds to my 10th
> place in the s11 Italian GP where 8 people with a
> boost finished in front of me. Now would anyone
> argue I would have finished in those positions had
> noone boosted? I doubt that. So I don't think it
> is the correct reasoning in Tobi's case as well.
Okay, and why do you leave out your crappy Malaysian result that gives you 10th and freaking FOUR DNFs while Tobi had no (ZERO) of such under his command, lol? Okay let's play your game and count what Tobi has under the hands of other people while unboosted. He had exactly 7, 11, 4, 4, 1, 6 and two DNFs. With him at control he had 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1 (leave out boosted and AUS results). Let's calculate. Your 10 (yes, I've added the Malaysian result because I have no idea why would you leave it out trying to make your point to be any valid), 2, 3, 2, 3, 6, 7, 3, 5, 2 'streak' gives you 4,3 position, even while leaving out 4 DNF finishes (why would you leave these is beyond my comprehension but okay - I guess it makes your stats look cool). Tobias unboosted results with someone else at control and leaving two DNFs for some odd reason out equals 5,5 (exactly the middle of 11 because statistically the half of the field left unboosted mostly). Tobias unboosted results with him at control is 1,3 (almost perfect 1st place every time, seems legit) and 0 DNFs. Okay and how again 1,3 is ANYWHERE near 4,3 or 5,5 even if we're playing the game of leaving the DNF results out? And keep in mind that the unboostled field in average is limited to 11 (half of the field uses the boost, the other is not - Hmmm it even must be lower than that in fact since you exclude at least 2-4 DNFs we have every race and sometimes there were crashfests with 10 cars finished in total)
> Two post ago I proved that there is a significant
> chance for Tobi to RD a set of races with an
> average finising position 5 places better than his
> overall average just by coincidence. So I now
> checked what Tobi's results were in races where he
> did not boost and did not RD (except season
> openers and DNFs again) in comparison to the other
> unboosted drivers. The same as you did just for
> the races he did not RD. Here I got 7, 11, 4, 4, 6
> E.g. the first 7 corresponds to S11 RSA run by
> you. The average of those position is 6.4. The
> average of his unboosted races while being RD
> (i.e. 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2) is 1.4. Exactly 5
> places better on average, as one would expect from
> looking at his overall results.
BWAAAAAAHAHAH. WHAT??? 5 PLACES BETTER IN AVERAGE IN THE GAME WHERE EVERYONE GET [almost] EQUAL AT THE START OF THE SEASON? AND KEEPING IN MIND THAT WITH WHAT YOU DO YOU MAKE THE FIELD TO BE A HALF LESS (because the half of the field gets a driver boost more or less each round)? So, 5 (FIIIIIIVE, CARL!) places (out of 11) better is totally fine and legit?
This is just lol. I gave my table and everything can be seen with the excel calculations, not my magic of excluding DNFs or saying that oki-doki guys I'm with my academical grade in statistic can totally assure you that being 5 (which is almost identical to 5,5 which is the middle number for the whole unboosted field... but it must be even less than that because of DNFs) places up is totally fine. You don't even have to be Einstein to look at 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1 (Tobi under his control) and 7, 11, 4, 4, 1 (you missed Flevoland S11), 6 (Tobi under others) and tell that it DOES NOT correspond well, while you're saying "Oh, it's just coincidence". Now download the game and the mod (even the late season when the difference in perf values is max) and play this game and how many attempts do you need to recreate 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1 and 0 DNFs magic? With the driver errors and messy overtaking, hmm... Just lol
___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2021 09:25PM by Soutsen.
n00binio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To illustrate, I took all my race results where I
> didn't use a boost and just checked what my
> position amongst the non-boosters was (I left out
> season openers and DNFs and I think s11 Malaysian
> GP). That is how I arrived at my 2, 3, 2, 3, 6, 7,
> 3, 5, 2 streak. Again - exactly the same as you
> did for Tobi's streak except for the first two
> wins. E.g. the first "2" corresponds to my 10th
> place in the s11 Italian GP where 8 people with a
> boost finished in front of me. Now would anyone
> argue I would have finished in those positions had
> noone boosted? I doubt that. So I don't think it
> is the correct reasoning in Tobi's case as well.
Okay, and why do you leave out your crappy Malaysian result that gives you 10th and freaking FOUR DNFs while Tobi had no (ZERO) of such under his command, lol? Okay let's play your game and count what Tobi has under the hands of other people while unboosted. He had exactly 7, 11, 4, 4, 1, 6 and two DNFs. With him at control he had 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1 (leave out boosted and AUS results). Let's calculate. Your 10 (yes, I've added the Malaysian result because I have no idea why would you leave it out trying to make your point to be any valid), 2, 3, 2, 3, 6, 7, 3, 5, 2 'streak' gives you 4,3 position, even while leaving out 4 DNF finishes (why would you leave these is beyond my comprehension but okay - I guess it makes your stats look cool). Tobias unboosted results with someone else at control and leaving two DNFs for some odd reason out equals 5,5 (exactly the middle of 11 because statistically the half of the field left unboosted mostly). Tobias unboosted results with him at control is 1,3 (almost perfect 1st place every time, seems legit) and 0 DNFs. Okay and how again 1,3 is ANYWHERE near 4,3 or 5,5 even if we're playing the game of leaving the DNF results out? And keep in mind that the unboostled field in average is limited to 11 (half of the field uses the boost, the other is not - Hmmm it even must be lower than that in fact since you exclude at least 2-4 DNFs we have every race and sometimes there were crashfests with 10 cars finished in total)
> Two post ago I proved that there is a significant
> chance for Tobi to RD a set of races with an
> average finising position 5 places better than his
> overall average just by coincidence. So I now
> checked what Tobi's results were in races where he
> did not boost and did not RD (except season
> openers and DNFs again) in comparison to the other
> unboosted drivers. The same as you did just for
> the races he did not RD. Here I got 7, 11, 4, 4, 6
> E.g. the first 7 corresponds to S11 RSA run by
> you. The average of those position is 6.4. The
> average of his unboosted races while being RD
> (i.e. 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2) is 1.4. Exactly 5
> places better on average, as one would expect from
> looking at his overall results.
BWAAAAAAHAHAH. WHAT??? 5 PLACES BETTER IN AVERAGE IN THE GAME WHERE EVERYONE GET [almost] EQUAL AT THE START OF THE SEASON? AND KEEPING IN MIND THAT WITH WHAT YOU DO YOU MAKE THE FIELD TO BE A HALF LESS (because the half of the field gets a driver boost more or less each round)? So, 5 (FIIIIIIVE, CARL!) places (out of 11) better is totally fine and legit?
This is just lol. I gave my table and everything can be seen with the excel calculations, not my magic of excluding DNFs or saying that oki-doki guys I'm with my academical grade in statistic can totally assure you that being 5 (which is almost identical to 5,5 which is the middle number for the whole unboosted field... but it must be even less than that because of DNFs) places up is totally fine. You don't even have to be Einstein to look at 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1 (Tobi under his control) and 7, 11, 4, 4, 1 (you missed Flevoland S11), 6 (Tobi under others) and tell that it DOES NOT correspond well, while you're saying "Oh, it's just coincidence". Now download the game and the mod (even the late season when the difference in perf values is max) and play this game and how many attempts do you need to recreate 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1 and 0 DNFs magic? With the driver errors and messy overtaking, hmm... Just lol
___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2021 09:25PM by Soutsen.
Also to Chris. How do you solve this riddle apart from it being coincidence or magic? (for others it is the average position each driver had under command of each direcotor):
His average 6,2 while UNBOOSTED while RD can give him the leading numbers among the BOOSTED results under the hands of other directors, lol and is better than his boosted results at the hands of Glen or Greg...
___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2021 12:59AM by Soutsen.
His average 6,2 while UNBOOSTED while RD can give him the leading numbers among the BOOSTED results under the hands of other directors, lol and is better than his boosted results at the hands of Glen or Greg...
___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2021 12:59AM by Soutsen.
The ramblings of Soutsen are irrelevant, tedious and just not worth clogging up the thread. Time to move on!!
Unless anyone has absolute proof of cheating, this discussion needs to end. If you have categoric proof, send it via PM to the GPGSL board - keep it off the thread! Defaming our volunteers is not healthy for the future of the league, so this crusade of 1 individual is not doing much good.
End of story as far as I am concerned. No cheating has occurred. No more talk…. Move on.
So, who wants to RD the next round? Will not be me……
GPGSL Team Owner Debut - Melbourne, Season 8 - present
GPGSL Test Debut - Hungary, Season 4. GPGSL Race Debut - Adelaide, Season 5.
Unless anyone has absolute proof of cheating, this discussion needs to end. If you have categoric proof, send it via PM to the GPGSL board - keep it off the thread! Defaming our volunteers is not healthy for the future of the league, so this crusade of 1 individual is not doing much good.
End of story as far as I am concerned. No cheating has occurred. No more talk…. Move on.
So, who wants to RD the next round? Will not be me……
GPGSL Team Owner Debut - Melbourne, Season 8 - present
GPGSL Test Debut - Hungary, Season 4. GPGSL Race Debut - Adelaide, Season 5.
I think it's tedious, didn't even tried to read everything. Can we please just move on?
This "discussion" is getting annoying, cut it now.
Christel VXR driver #6.
Christel VXR driver #6.
Has there been a discussion? =P
Nice looking tables i must say!
Nice looking tables i must say!
And also Tobi had 1 DNF while RDing during the 21 races which is 4,8% and 7 DNFs during 34 races of other RDs which is 20,6% of failure rate. Just another tedious and irrelevant fact that we can ignore and move along
natasp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it's tedious, didn't even tried to read
> everything. Can we please just move on?
Didn't even tried to read = it's tedious. Classic...
Darksoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This "discussion" is getting annoying, cut it now.
I'm done and have nothing else to add. Thanks
___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2021 09:52AM by Soutsen.
natasp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it's tedious, didn't even tried to read
> everything. Can we please just move on?
Didn't even tried to read = it's tedious. Classic...
Darksoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This "discussion" is getting annoying, cut it now.
I'm done and have nothing else to add. Thanks
___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2021 09:52AM by Soutsen.
I like the new tables! I just wonder if you'll add car numbers in it too, although that might seem a bit tedious and perhaps pointless.
Although I think putting P1 in red in the championship standings could make it look a bit nicer, as ell as PP/FL/PG. Awesome job though, looks neat!
Dominik Karda | MAC Racing - #7 - Race Driver
Although I think putting P1 in red in the championship standings could make it look a bit nicer, as ell as PP/FL/PG. Awesome job though, looks neat!
Dominik Karda | MAC Racing - #7 - Race Driver
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.