GPGSL S11: R14 Flevoland GP [VACANCIES, join now!!! || R13 QUAL online p.157, RACE p.158!!!]
Posted by GPGSL
Well, you all know that I'm with Dan on this, aren't you? 
I still think that the test drivers duties must be the only thing that should help building perfs for the newcomers. And perf progression for the new drivers should go patiently and slowly. Right now seeing 3 newcomers (Soutsen, von Draxeler, O'Neill) qualifying 6th, 7th and 13th ahead of such series legends as Ingers, Jalving and Greenhalgh feels hmm... awkward? Surely I don't want to say that I want to see something like the real F1 has to offer with Mercedes and Ferrari being the only real win contenders atm, making it predictable and kind of boring, but knowing that AMR and MPR has the greatest car/driver lineups at the moment, and seeing them struggling to get some points... it is, you know, dissapointing as well. I still see it like the point where every driver has the equal chance to win, and the point where the one certain driver winning everything, with the large space between these to adjust. And the current balance is not optimal for my taste.
Carlos made a good point, though, and with the boosting allowed from now on, it is where the real fun begins - now it is a challenge of the team bosses and their drivers, it's the human decisions being the main factor affecting the final result. Yes, I suggested the thing which could the first race of the season to be not that much random, but what's done is done - I'm really happy to see the season started, and now I'm waiting eagerly for the season to progress to see who worked out the best tactic of their boost usage. I'm dead curious already to know, for example, how many of us will be brave enough to use (and waste probably, because of weather
) their 1st boost potion for the next race at Sepang. So the fun has just begun, let's keep it up, guys 
___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]
I still think that the test drivers duties must be the only thing that should help building perfs for the newcomers. And perf progression for the new drivers should go patiently and slowly. Right now seeing 3 newcomers (Soutsen, von Draxeler, O'Neill) qualifying 6th, 7th and 13th ahead of such series legends as Ingers, Jalving and Greenhalgh feels hmm... awkward? Surely I don't want to say that I want to see something like the real F1 has to offer with Mercedes and Ferrari being the only real win contenders atm, making it predictable and kind of boring, but knowing that AMR and MPR has the greatest car/driver lineups at the moment, and seeing them struggling to get some points... it is, you know, dissapointing as well. I still see it like the point where every driver has the equal chance to win, and the point where the one certain driver winning everything, with the large space between these to adjust. And the current balance is not optimal for my taste.
Carlos made a good point, though, and with the boosting allowed from now on, it is where the real fun begins - now it is a challenge of the team bosses and their drivers, it's the human decisions being the main factor affecting the final result. Yes, I suggested the thing which could the first race of the season to be not that much random, but what's done is done - I'm really happy to see the season started, and now I'm waiting eagerly for the season to progress to see who worked out the best tactic of their boost usage. I'm dead curious already to know, for example, how many of us will be brave enough to use (and waste probably, because of weather
) their 1st boost potion for the next race at Sepang. So the fun has just begun, let's keep it up, guys ___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]
Well, I'll put it harsh and simply because I'm honestly starting to grow tired of repeating myself over and over again.
The way the series is built, there are only two scenarios possible.
Scenario 1 is what we had until a few seasons ago and what Dan and Michael are now asking to return. We had 2-3 top teams winning 90% of the races and Ed taking home championship after championship because of by far the best perf values. Totally no blame against Ed, he was here from the start, stayed active and hence was the logical and deserved No. 1! And guess what, surprise surprise, Dan P. was one of those shouting the loudest how boring it is that AMR and Ed win all the time. No personal blame, Dan, but it is a fact. Now, the reason why this scenario does not work is because Michael's idea of drivers progressing and catching up over time does not work! They cannot catch up if the best drivers win all the time and thereby increase the gap even further instead of gradually reducing it over time. The only way for drivers to catch up is when the first drivers hit the perf limit. But even then, they could only temporarily catch up over the rest of the season since with the start of next season, the limit is removed and the gap is probably higher than it was the season before. And by the time a driver hits the perf limit, they are so far ahead of catching up drivers that the championship is, in best case, closed down to 2-3 drivers after the middle of the season. Welcome Formula 1!
Hence Scenario 2 was the only way out and it had to happen by levelling the field for the start of the season so that long-term drivers still have a minor advantage in the perfs while not running ahead from the start. Naturally, this brought some extra randomness to it, but I feel that it brought an overall higher satisfaction to the series. You'll always have people complaining for their (lost) personal advantage, but with more mixed results, everybody can have some good moments over a season instead of a few having nearly all good moments, a few having nearly all bad moments and the majority hanging around in neutral land in the middle of the grid. Keep in mind that I myself am one of the biggest losers of the added randomness. Without the levelling, I would have constantly had one of the highest driver perfs linked with the highest team perf and had I stayed with AMR with Ed gone now, I probably would have had a run like he did for so many seasons. Since this, however, would have happened on cost of a general frustration in the league, I prefer the current situation by far!
On top of all this, as has already been mentioned, you're seriously starting to complain and even try to blackmail the board after the first race of the season when the new boost system did not yet have a single chance to prove its better strategic effect? You, Dan, said just a few days ago you would have liked to see the boost system scrapped altogether, and now you threaten to leave the series because of the randomness of a race that had no boost allowed? With all respect, but this is ridiculous.
Finally, a few personal words that aren't official but just my personal 2 cents. I'm really growing tired of this constant negativity that has creeped into the series in the past 1-2 years. To me it appears that there is a group of people, mainly consisting of Tobi, Ruben and Dan P. whose one and only goal is to make things bad, no matter what. I am absolutely for the freedom of speech and own opinions and everybody not only should but has to voice their ideas when it comes to important decisions. But some people seem to think that the board is just deciding what we want over their heads, just because they have drastic opinions that don't fit with those of the majority. You can be assured that all of us monitor very closely the overall mood towards topics that concern us all and by no means overrule ideas that a) are agreed to by what we think is the majority of the league participants and b) don't harm the series overall. The board members with their specifications all have an insight into the dynamics that keep the series running for so long and we always discuss and vote on important changes and decisions. And quite a few decisions even get voted on officially, like the calendar. And guess what, although the majority decided on the calendar, it's still a shitty calendar and the voting procedure was shitty as well and so on. I'm fed up with it.
Everybody of us complains about a bad race and so on, but there should be a balance. If literally EVERY post is just complaining, full of negativity and so on, then honestly, why are you still here? If the league is so bad, why don't you go start your own and do it your way? It would be a pity to lose even more long-time dedicated members, even more so since especially Tobi put in some great effort into running the series in the past and even in the post season with some help to put the trackpack together (the same goes for Ruben, obviously, with his stellar work on the mod). And I'm absolutely not suggesting you to leave, but I'm asking you and others to think about my words and what your behavior does to those who still enjoy the series as it is. And to Dan P. I can only say that blackmailing won't work either, at least as far as I'm concerned.
Nothing stops you from requesting a member vote on alternative league systems FOR the next season, AFTER the new boost system had a chance to prove itself. But when it came to the changes discussion past season, it was mostly the boost system that attracted complaints and hence this was tackled for this season.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
The way the series is built, there are only two scenarios possible.
Scenario 1 is what we had until a few seasons ago and what Dan and Michael are now asking to return. We had 2-3 top teams winning 90% of the races and Ed taking home championship after championship because of by far the best perf values. Totally no blame against Ed, he was here from the start, stayed active and hence was the logical and deserved No. 1! And guess what, surprise surprise, Dan P. was one of those shouting the loudest how boring it is that AMR and Ed win all the time. No personal blame, Dan, but it is a fact. Now, the reason why this scenario does not work is because Michael's idea of drivers progressing and catching up over time does not work! They cannot catch up if the best drivers win all the time and thereby increase the gap even further instead of gradually reducing it over time. The only way for drivers to catch up is when the first drivers hit the perf limit. But even then, they could only temporarily catch up over the rest of the season since with the start of next season, the limit is removed and the gap is probably higher than it was the season before. And by the time a driver hits the perf limit, they are so far ahead of catching up drivers that the championship is, in best case, closed down to 2-3 drivers after the middle of the season. Welcome Formula 1!
Hence Scenario 2 was the only way out and it had to happen by levelling the field for the start of the season so that long-term drivers still have a minor advantage in the perfs while not running ahead from the start. Naturally, this brought some extra randomness to it, but I feel that it brought an overall higher satisfaction to the series. You'll always have people complaining for their (lost) personal advantage, but with more mixed results, everybody can have some good moments over a season instead of a few having nearly all good moments, a few having nearly all bad moments and the majority hanging around in neutral land in the middle of the grid. Keep in mind that I myself am one of the biggest losers of the added randomness. Without the levelling, I would have constantly had one of the highest driver perfs linked with the highest team perf and had I stayed with AMR with Ed gone now, I probably would have had a run like he did for so many seasons. Since this, however, would have happened on cost of a general frustration in the league, I prefer the current situation by far!
On top of all this, as has already been mentioned, you're seriously starting to complain and even try to blackmail the board after the first race of the season when the new boost system did not yet have a single chance to prove its better strategic effect? You, Dan, said just a few days ago you would have liked to see the boost system scrapped altogether, and now you threaten to leave the series because of the randomness of a race that had no boost allowed? With all respect, but this is ridiculous.
Finally, a few personal words that aren't official but just my personal 2 cents. I'm really growing tired of this constant negativity that has creeped into the series in the past 1-2 years. To me it appears that there is a group of people, mainly consisting of Tobi, Ruben and Dan P. whose one and only goal is to make things bad, no matter what. I am absolutely for the freedom of speech and own opinions and everybody not only should but has to voice their ideas when it comes to important decisions. But some people seem to think that the board is just deciding what we want over their heads, just because they have drastic opinions that don't fit with those of the majority. You can be assured that all of us monitor very closely the overall mood towards topics that concern us all and by no means overrule ideas that a) are agreed to by what we think is the majority of the league participants and b) don't harm the series overall. The board members with their specifications all have an insight into the dynamics that keep the series running for so long and we always discuss and vote on important changes and decisions. And quite a few decisions even get voted on officially, like the calendar. And guess what, although the majority decided on the calendar, it's still a shitty calendar and the voting procedure was shitty as well and so on. I'm fed up with it.
Everybody of us complains about a bad race and so on, but there should be a balance. If literally EVERY post is just complaining, full of negativity and so on, then honestly, why are you still here? If the league is so bad, why don't you go start your own and do it your way? It would be a pity to lose even more long-time dedicated members, even more so since especially Tobi put in some great effort into running the series in the past and even in the post season with some help to put the trackpack together (the same goes for Ruben, obviously, with his stellar work on the mod). And I'm absolutely not suggesting you to leave, but I'm asking you and others to think about my words and what your behavior does to those who still enjoy the series as it is. And to Dan P. I can only say that blackmailing won't work either, at least as far as I'm concerned.
Nothing stops you from requesting a member vote on alternative league systems FOR the next season, AFTER the new boost system had a chance to prove itself. But when it came to the changes discussion past season, it was mostly the boost system that attracted complaints and hence this was tackled for this season.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
Luckily we are just playing a game, and we don't even drive the cars or make the setups.
What would it be if it was something serious ? Like, let's say, politics ?
What would it be if it was something serious ? Like, let's say, politics ?
To JohnMaverick, I say...
Race greetings from Belgium
GPGSL-3: VTR Driver, S4~S11 (2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3th, 4th, 3th, 2nd)(Constructorstitel S7 & S9)
GPGSL-4: ONE Racing Driver, S8~S11 // TYRANT Racing Driver, S12:1st, S13:13th, S14:1st, S15:13th //
WREXHAM Motorsports Racing Driver S16: ?
Race greetings from Belgium
GPGSL-3: VTR Driver, S4~S11 (2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3th, 4th, 3th, 2nd)(Constructorstitel S7 & S9)
GPGSL-4: ONE Racing Driver, S8~S11 // TYRANT Racing Driver, S12:1st, S13:13th, S14:1st, S15:13th //
WREXHAM Motorsports Racing Driver S16: ?
Fixed the problem, not sure what happened though
It never fails to amaze me how serious people are taking the results of this unimportant little game 
used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld
used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld
I had two cups of tea throughout that!
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
Side note, the series has been too predictable with the same winners or those doing well all the time for a long time.
I'm on boh sides of the argument. I called for the reset years ago, I called for it to be a thrice season thing, keeps it fresh and fair to all those that come and go.
It's just a game, but these guys put so much heart into making it possible you've all lost what it was that made you join.
Dan has had his own success aplenty. There was a time I was sick of MPR doing well. Sick of the same liveries year on year. But so what. Such is life. We all sat and watched AMR win, but we stuck around at the back. We made it fun!
We can't all win, but we can all have fun. Respect the guys making this happen. We've survived not going well. Look at poor Snake!
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
I'm on boh sides of the argument. I called for the reset years ago, I called for it to be a thrice season thing, keeps it fresh and fair to all those that come and go.
It's just a game, but these guys put so much heart into making it possible you've all lost what it was that made you join.
Dan has had his own success aplenty. There was a time I was sick of MPR doing well. Sick of the same liveries year on year. But so what. Such is life. We all sat and watched AMR win, but we stuck around at the back. We made it fun!
We can't all win, but we can all have fun. Respect the guys making this happen. We've survived not going well. Look at poor Snake!
Ferrari2007 Schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spend years carefully working to build up a strong
> team... then your cars finish 40s off the
> pace...What a joke.
>
> I'm sorry, but the variability of the perf system
> is absolutely broken. The teams with the best
> perfs should not be coming home 40s off the
> leader.
>
> If you can turn up and almost win your first race
> in the series with the starter perf, tell me
> what's the point of legacy building in this
> series?
>
> Unless this issue is quickly addressed then I
> don't see a future in the series for MPR beyond
> this season. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who
> sees it like this.
>
> Thank you as ever to Greg for taking the time out
> to run the race. Much appreciated, even if you
> went a bit too heavy with the pics.
Same for me Dan.. I have been active in this series as a driver since season 2, never ever had a single perf penalty!
Just a handfull of wins and never a real shot at winning the drivers title, eventhough I have been running at top teams most of my career..
To see my pace in the first race of the season is really bad and is not good for the motivation.
Last season was also horrible, only at the end things started working out a bit more.
Race starts: 141 | Points: 886 | Podiums: 35 | Race wins: 10
Follow me on: Twitter | Instagram | Facebook
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spend years carefully working to build up a strong
> team... then your cars finish 40s off the
> pace...What a joke.
>
> I'm sorry, but the variability of the perf system
> is absolutely broken. The teams with the best
> perfs should not be coming home 40s off the
> leader.
>
> If you can turn up and almost win your first race
> in the series with the starter perf, tell me
> what's the point of legacy building in this
> series?
>
> Unless this issue is quickly addressed then I
> don't see a future in the series for MPR beyond
> this season. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who
> sees it like this.
>
> Thank you as ever to Greg for taking the time out
> to run the race. Much appreciated, even if you
> went a bit too heavy with the pics.
Same for me Dan.. I have been active in this series as a driver since season 2, never ever had a single perf penalty!
Just a handfull of wins and never a real shot at winning the drivers title, eventhough I have been running at top teams most of my career..
To see my pace in the first race of the season is really bad and is not good for the motivation.
Last season was also horrible, only at the end things started working out a bit more.
Race starts: 141 | Points: 886 | Podiums: 35 | Race wins: 10
Follow me on: Twitter | Instagram | Facebook
I'm feeling demonized by a certain John M.
My Grand Prix 4 Files
I'm a total dick. How many people can say that?
John McClane
Turbo Lover schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It also makes the perf calculations a lot easier.
Thank you for the positive comment, this feels so refreshing!
But could you please elaborate on this? I don't see, yet, how flexible boost values would make the calculations easier than fixed numbers.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
-------------------------------------------------------
> It also makes the perf calculations a lot easier.
Thank you for the positive comment, this feels so refreshing!
But could you please elaborate on this? I don't see, yet, how flexible boost values would make the calculations easier than fixed numbers.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
Stoopid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can't believe there are some here are already
> dissing this season's rules after just one race.
> It kind of makes me wonder why I do this.
I agree!! Only one race, in an offline championship that won't pay money for nothing!!! Be happy, guys!
One Racing driver and team manager
GPGSL-3: champion in 2007/2013/2014!
GPGSL-4: testdrivers champion in Season 11!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can't believe there are some here are already
> dissing this season's rules after just one race.
> It kind of makes me wonder why I do this.
I agree!! Only one race, in an offline championship that won't pay money for nothing!!! Be happy, guys!
One Racing driver and team manager
GPGSL-3: champion in 2007/2013/2014!
GPGSL-4: testdrivers champion in Season 11!
JohnMaverick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Turbo Lover schrieb:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It also makes the perf calculations a lot
> easier.
>
> Thank you for the positive comment, this feels so
> refreshing!
> But could you please elaborate on this? I don't
> see, yet, how flexible boost values would make the
> calculations easier than fixed numbers.
You could stick to the single boost system, but say that "extra boost" earned doesn't mean anything until it reaches 200/400/whatever. So someone with 405 points earned would have 2 extra boosts, whilst someone with 368 points would just have one, until they reached that 400 point line at the end of a season. It's a little extra work, but it'd a simple "points total/x rounded down" at the end of a season so wouldn't be too much?
A strong/smart driver would earn an extra boost quicker, whilst a weak/unsensible one slower. Then you add in some recency calculations like "only the last 3/5/100 seasons count", and with some smart boost usage a newer driver could earn a little advantage to try and match the best.
The experts would have to work out some exact numbers to prevent the strong getting too strong though
_________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here: [docs.google.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2017 05:21PM by truecrysis.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Turbo Lover schrieb:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It also makes the perf calculations a lot
> easier.
>
> Thank you for the positive comment, this feels so
> refreshing!
> But could you please elaborate on this? I don't
> see, yet, how flexible boost values would make the
> calculations easier than fixed numbers.
You could stick to the single boost system, but say that "extra boost" earned doesn't mean anything until it reaches 200/400/whatever. So someone with 405 points earned would have 2 extra boosts, whilst someone with 368 points would just have one, until they reached that 400 point line at the end of a season. It's a little extra work, but it'd a simple "points total/x rounded down" at the end of a season so wouldn't be too much?
A strong/smart driver would earn an extra boost quicker, whilst a weak/unsensible one slower. Then you add in some recency calculations like "only the last 3/5/100 seasons count", and with some smart boost usage a newer driver could earn a little advantage to try and match the best.
The experts would have to work out some exact numbers to prevent the strong getting too strong though
_________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here: [docs.google.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2017 05:21PM by truecrysis.
What I'm absolutely sure about is that the things like the regulation changes and all the discusses about the perf generation system tweaks should have taken place in the latter half of the previous season (dunno if you guys had such talks, since I wasn't really active for the last couple of years), and before the start of the current one. Not after the 1st race of the season, when everything is set and done already. On the other hand, it is better late than never, and I can't blame Dan for expressing his opinion. Let's all just chill a little. Even a second race in Malaysia will show nothing to us really, because 70% chance of rain means a lot of chaos again (especially in qualifying, which is basically a lottery with such kind of weather). But I'm sure that with so much time before the start of the next season, we'll figure out something for the S12 to make GPGSL great again
And what happened to the boost deadline announcement? The start of the season was slack enough, let's move on, hurry, hurry, quick, quick
___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2017 06:11PM by Soutsen.
And what happened to the boost deadline announcement? The start of the season was slack enough, let's move on, hurry, hurry, quick, quick
___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2017 06:11PM by Soutsen.
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