Magic Data Discussion

It took some time for me to understand and to test all these new values. It's so lovely to see all these new knowledges about GP4. Thank you so much, Atticus! This was a brilliant work!

Atticus. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Finally, please find below my most recent, most
> up-to-date descriptions for each value. Besides
> adding all the new information, I have revised a
> lot of the other comments as well to make them
> more consistent with the original terms. (I.e. I
> used “cc” instead of “AI” and structured
> the descriptions as “cc/player dry/wet”
> wherever possible/necessary.)
>
> You can copy this list into your cmagic4.ini file
> to update it quickly and efficiently. (Do create a
> backup first.)
>
> desc1=cc fw dry
> desc2=rw
> desc3=1st
> desc4=2nd
> desc5=3rd
> desc6=4th
> desc7=5th
> desc8=6th
> desc9=cc fw wet
> desc10=rw
> desc11=1st
> desc12=2nd
> desc13=3rd
> desc14=4th
> desc15=5th
> desc16=6th
> desc17=player fw dry
> desc18=rw
> desc19=1st
> desc20=2nd
> desc21=3rd
> desc22=4th
> desc23=5th
> desc24=6th
> desc25=brake balance dry
> desc26=player fw wet
> desc27=rw
> desc28=1st
> desc29=2nd
> desc30=3rd
> desc31=4th
> desc32=5th
> desc33=6th
> desc34=brake balance wet
> desc35=soft tyre (52-55, higher, softer)
> desc36=hard tyre (52-55, higher, softer)
> desc37=tyretype (>= 50 tyretype 1 else 2)
> desc38=
> desc39=
> desc40=
> desc41=
> desc42=track grip
> desc43=
> desc44=
> desc45=drag (lower, more)
> desc46=player downforce and drag (cc drag)
> desc47=air pressure
> desc48=fuel (kg/lap*2979 for 1.0 lap worth of
> fuel)
> desc49=????? - subtracted from diff between
> field_e2 of 2 cars and then compared to speed of
> first car
> desc50=player tyre wear factor
> desc51=cc aggressiveness (added to car.field_108.
> related to cc grip factor, 32769 low, 65536 & 0
> mid, 32768 high)
> desc52=cc aggressiveness finetune
> desc53=cc power factor ace
> desc54=cc grip factor ace
> desc55=cc power factor pro
> desc56=cc grip factor pro
> desc57=cc power factor semi-pro
> desc58=cc grip factor semi-pro
> desc59=cc power factor amateur
> desc60=cc grip factor amateur
> desc61=cc power factor rookie
> desc62=cc grip factor rookie
> desc63=cc random perf range min
> desc64=cc random perf range max
> desc65=cc error chance (some chance. same chance
> multiplied with race perc.)
> desc66=spin recovery range (segment count, range 1
> to 256, nr of sectors checked by cc after spin)
> desc67=sectors to pit in
> desc68=sectors to pit out
> desc69=pre pit speed limit
> desc70=player fuel consumption
> desc71=cc fuel consumption
> desc72=tyre wear
> desc73='rail-line' length at the start (a segment
> nr before which flag 0x80 in car.flags_ce is not
> cleared)
> desc74=laptime (e. g. 70800 equals 1:10.800)
> desc75=laptime finetune (+/-1000 equals +/- 1.0)
> desc76=????? - helps decide if a tyre set needs
> changing? (dw)
> desc77=cc crossover point (higher, sooner)
> desc78=rain chance
> desc79=????? - segment nr (start of some range)
> related to pit in/out
> desc80=????? - segment nr (end of some range)
> related to pit in/out
> desc81=????? - cc race grip? (another perf
> factor)
> desc82=????? - unk (dw) player wet?
> desc83=????? - unk (dw) player grip?
> desc84=black flag penalty
> desc85=black flag (1024=80kph)
> desc86=cc engine mapping wet (higher, more
> detuned)
> desc87=cc tyre wear and grip factor wet (higher,
> more)
> desc88=cc tyre wear factor wet (lower, more)
> desc89=cc grip factor wet (lower, more)
> desc90='handbrake' (at -312)
> desc91=player garage pos depth
> desc92=cc garage pos depth
> desc93=orientation in garage
> desc94=pit stall depth
> desc95=pit stall depth finetune
> desc96=
> desc97=
> desc98=
> desc99=
> desc100=
> desc101=
> desc102=pitstop group 1 %
> desc103=stop 1
> desc104=pit window 1
> desc105=
> desc106=
> desc107=
> desc108=
> desc109=
> desc110=pitstop group 2 %
> desc111=stop 1
> desc112=pit window 1
> desc113=stop 2
> desc114=pit window 2
> desc115=
> desc116=
> desc117=
> desc118=pitstop group 3 %
> desc119=stop 1
> desc120=pit window 1
> desc121=stop 2
> desc122=pit window 2
> desc123=stop 3
> desc124=pit window 3
> desc125=
> desc126=failure chance: suspension
> desc127=failure chance: loosewheel
> desc128=failure chance: puncture
> desc129=failure chance: engine
> desc130=failure chance: transmission
> desc131=failure chance: oilleak/waterleak
> desc132=failure chance: throttle/brake
> desc133=failure chance: electrics
> desc134=
> desc135=
> desc136=
> desc137=
> desc138=bump factor
> desc139=bump shift
>
> Thank you once more for following these
> developments – use it well and let’s hope we
> can find out the last bits of mystery as well
> eventually.
>
> Cheers,
> Atticus


I read quickly your discussion about Magic Data files and.. I have "CMagic4 1.02" application but i don't understand HOW to use it..
The application read S1CTXX.DAT files, in the particular, only the amount of laps in the circuit..
I replace in the cmagic4.ini file your update but nothing.. sigh!!


PaZa

PaZa8523 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read quickly your discussion about Magic Data
> files and.. I have "CMagic4 1.02" application but
> i don't understand HOW to use it..
> The application read S1CTXX.DAT files, in the
> particular, only the amount of laps in the
> circuit..
> I replace in the cmagic4.ini file your update but
> nothing.. sigh!!
>
>
> PaZa


Don't replace the whole file, just the lines below the [descriptions] tag.

---

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For fuel you wrote
desc48=fuel (kg/lap*2979 for 1.0 lap worth of fuel)

Is there any quick way to get the kg/lap value?

---

Some mods
F1 1996 | F1 2002 | F1 2007 | F1 2011 | F1 2013 | F1 2015 | F1 2018

Another question, how exactly do the failure values work? Looking at the original track mds, these values are used
0
744
1489
2234
2978
3723
4468

Thought it stands for 0/1/2/etc failures of the respective type, but they don't really happen that way in the races

---

Some mods
F1 1996 | F1 2002 | F1 2007 | F1 2011 | F1 2013 | F1 2015 | F1 2018



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2018 09:16PM by kedy89.

hi Guys. I guess the solution at my problem could be somewhere in the magic data.

After a straight line at the entrance of a chicane, one car try to overtake another one but the defender doesn't care, close the door and both cars crash!!! (NO!! not ony Magnussen)
In fact the defender follows the cc line like there was not another car.

it happens each time..
I just can't imagine what could happened in lap 1.... I didn't get yet the courage to try a race...

could be also related at the cc line itself... I don't know...

Any ideas?

gezere schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [...]

Hm, really strange! For me, it sounds like this problem is related to the track, respectively the cc-line you are driving with. What track are you driving on and in which corner is this issue happening? Are you using a custom cc-line? Maybe this track / this cc-line is already known for this strange issue to other users...

To your suspicion 'magic data-related', I can say, that the only value ever being suspected to be related to the cars defending behaviour was the following line:

desc49=????? - subtracted from diff between field_e2 of 2 cars and then compared to speed of first car (also known as '49 Related to slipstream?'

Nevertheless, no-one has ever been able to verify the exact purpose of this magic-data-value. Atticus wrote a bit about it on page 10 of this thread.
Maybe you can have a look at it and compare it to desc49-value of other tracks. For example the original Melbourne track has a value of 384.

Also, it could be related to a high 'cc aggressiveness'-value in your magic data or a very, very, very high-downforce physics being used in your GPxPatch. But if so, I'm sure you would have found the cause for this issue on your own already.

@gezere: I suspect you're talking about the Mistral chicane, as I found the same problem when first testing the track.

I suggest taking a look at original Monza .dat since it has the same long straight-tight chicane combination and see how it's handled there. But I would place my bets on the cc-line.


My unfinished tracks: [www.grandprixgames.org]
Send bug reports and track editing questions to f1virtualblog@gmail.com

Thanks for the reply.
I am not sure that Nobody else have had the possbility to test this track ... except F1 Virtual
See below what I mean. 1 picture is surely better than a long post.
The Renault overtakes the Hass. the front wheels are beyond those of the Hass but this F.... French guy closes the door.

I will have a look at the values you describes in your post. Thank you.

Edit: @PrBlanco. Yep It is this part of the track... I will follow your recommendation and will let you know. Thank you







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2018 12:59PM by gezere.

Quote

For fuel you wrote
desc48=fuel (kg/lap*2979 for 1.0 lap worth of fuel)

Is there any quick way to get the kg/lap value?

Quote

Another question, how exactly do the failure values work? Looking at the original track mds, these values are used
0
744
1489
2234
2978
3723
4468

Thought it stands for 0/1/2/etc failures of the respective type, but they don't really happen that way in the races

Anyone?

---

Some mods
F1 1996 | F1 2002 | F1 2007 | F1 2011 | F1 2013 | F1 2015 | F1 2018

You can get a rough estimate of kg/lap based on track length but it's very dependent on the track characteristics so will always need tweaking.

E.g. Sakhir has a ton of long acceleration zones and so needs a lot of fuel. Monaco has a much lower kg/lap due to its overall low speed and short acceleration zones. So if you used the same calculation on both you'd get bad results.

=====================================================


Intel NUC 8i3, 8GB RAM, MS Sidewinder Wheel

kedy89 Schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another question, how exactly do the failure
> values work? Looking at the original track mds,
> these values are used
> 0
> 744
> 1489
> 2234
> 2978
> 3723
> 4468
>
> Thought it stands for 0/1/2/etc failures of the
> respective type, but they don't really happen that
> way in the races
>
> Anyone?



I tested several failure rates with the no chicane version of Silverstone 2001, but the results were pretty random. Definitely need more testing to hopefully understand the mechanics behind these values.

---

My Grand Prix 4 Files
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TomMK schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can get a rough estimate of kg/lap based on
> track length but it's very dependent on the track
> characteristics so will always need tweaking.
>
> E.g. Sakhir has a ton of long acceleration zones
> and so needs a lot of fuel. Monaco has a much
> lower kg/lap due to its overall low speed and
> short acceleration zones. So if you used the same
> calculation on both you'd get bad results.


Cheers, guess I'll have to stick to my trial and error approach then.



Turbo Lover schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I tested several failure rates with the no chicane
> version of Silverstone 2001, but the results were
> pretty random. Definitely need more testing to
> hopefully understand the mechanics behind these
> values.


I got the same impression based on the many races I did. Sometimes results are quite close to the md values, other times I get several failures of a type with value 0, and none for those with high values.

---

Some mods
F1 1996 | F1 2002 | F1 2007 | F1 2011 | F1 2013 | F1 2015 | F1 2018

Quote

I tested several failure rates with the no chicane version of Silverstone 2001, but the results were pretty random. Definitely need more testing to hopefully understand the mechanics behind these values.

Any new insights?
I must say I've never understood the way these failure rates worked. I've always assumed higher values means higher failure rate, but that appears not to be the case.

Didn't test it further, daily job is taking too much time and energy. I'm sorry.

---

My Grand Prix 4 Files
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I figure the inbuilt random of the game overrules the magic data values... ?

Hi to all. How much, if and how (if any) do the Magic Data affect the Performance file? Should they be matched? Any Performance file is not good for all circuits, as the Magic Data is different?

Hi to all. What would happen if the Magic Data were the same for all the circuits?

Bad performance.

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My Grand Prix 4 Files
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mralpha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi to all. How much, if and how (if any) do the
> Magic Data affect the Performance file? Should
> they be matched? Any Performance file is not good
> for all circuits, as the Magic Data is different?


There is much more then that to be matched: power-torque-curve, physics file, magic data and performance file must share some common ground in order to produce usable results.
To give you just an example: engine power appears in all files except magic data, and it has to be the same everywhere. You will not get usable results if you use a physics file with 850 bhp, define a power-torque-curve with a peak of 750 bhp and put in your performance file that Mercedes has 1000 bhp in quali mode!

In general you have the power-torque-curve to define the characteristics of the power train (V8, V10, V6 hybrid etc), then you have the physics file to define the characteristics of the car (weight, dimensions etc) and the tyres (diameter, grip etc). With those two files you try to get a good season average of the laptimes and top speeds. Track specific adjustments are necessary and you have the magic data to play with (track surface, gear ratios etc). If you have it all right, you can simulate the pole position time at a track for that season regardless of the performance file! The performance file is actually "just" a way to define the relative performances of the drivers to another!

It is indeed a bit complicated, and this is a simplified explanation, but the main thing you have to consider is that this is a set of files working as a package and you cannot change anything without considering the effects of that change to the others. Especially, you shouldn't mix files from different mods, because they most likely won't match!

That is the reason why in my performance files that i publish you will find the full set, and it is meant to be used as a full set!

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