The Official 2011 Australian GP Thread ****Spoilers!!****
Posted by mcdo
A lot of the media seem to acknowledge Petrov's podium as good, but what if Kubica was in the car.
I think that the Renault would still have finished 3rd, with Petrov finishing a lot futher back.
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I think that the Renault would still have finished 3rd, with Petrov finishing a lot futher back.
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Rubens gave it a good go though 
RedSam
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Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
Due to the voting system in Germany, Governments are always made up of coalitions of different parties. At the last election, an almost unprecidented result saw the CDU/CSU (rough equivilant of the Conservatives) go into Government with the SPD (rough equivilant of Labour)
mitadumapaga Wrote:
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> i am afraid that massa is all but done for. and
> only if he would ve become WC 2008, he would
> nmaybe had the determination to fight alonso.
> instead he is off to a sad ending of his already
> 10 seasoned career....
It wasn't a great weekend for Massa, but I don't think he let Alonso by. I think it's pretty common in motorsport that if you get overtaken once (albeit illegally in this case), you lose momentum and it's easy to get overtaken again. Also, 85% of the drivers in the field would defend less if their team-mate made a move compared to another drive.
Possibly the worst sign for Ferrari is that they didn't seem to be great at saving their tyres. I think they were going to try a 2-stop strategy with Massa, but his first two stints weren't long enough for that to really work, so his hard tyres burnt out before the end of the third stint. Ferrari have said that they made a mistake with his strategy, so it seems we'll be seeing the hard tyre saved for as late as possible at most races. It will be interesting to see how they all go in the hotter temperatures in Sepang.
Anyway, at least he did a good job defending. His best hope of catching Alonso is if the car is stronger. You could see in 2010 that generally Alonso's strength was getting the most out of a poor car. When the car was good, Massa was much closer - such as Bahrain, Germany and Monza. In fact he was on the podium for 4/5 of Alonso's wins, and didn't get a chance to qualify and go for 100% in Singapore.
Poor form from McLaren and Button. It's happened so many times in recent years (not least France and Belgium in 2008 to themselves) that they shouldn't need clarification. The fact that Button claimed it was a team decision and Whitmarsh claimed it was Button's decision was quite embarrassing as well.
X (@ed24f1)
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> i am afraid that massa is all but done for. and
> only if he would ve become WC 2008, he would
> nmaybe had the determination to fight alonso.
> instead he is off to a sad ending of his already
> 10 seasoned career....
It wasn't a great weekend for Massa, but I don't think he let Alonso by. I think it's pretty common in motorsport that if you get overtaken once (albeit illegally in this case), you lose momentum and it's easy to get overtaken again. Also, 85% of the drivers in the field would defend less if their team-mate made a move compared to another drive.
Possibly the worst sign for Ferrari is that they didn't seem to be great at saving their tyres. I think they were going to try a 2-stop strategy with Massa, but his first two stints weren't long enough for that to really work, so his hard tyres burnt out before the end of the third stint. Ferrari have said that they made a mistake with his strategy, so it seems we'll be seeing the hard tyre saved for as late as possible at most races. It will be interesting to see how they all go in the hotter temperatures in Sepang.
Anyway, at least he did a good job defending. His best hope of catching Alonso is if the car is stronger. You could see in 2010 that generally Alonso's strength was getting the most out of a poor car. When the car was good, Massa was much closer - such as Bahrain, Germany and Monza. In fact he was on the podium for 4/5 of Alonso's wins, and didn't get a chance to qualify and go for 100% in Singapore.
Poor form from McLaren and Button. It's happened so many times in recent years (not least France and Belgium in 2008 to themselves) that they shouldn't need clarification. The fact that Button claimed it was a team decision and Whitmarsh claimed it was Button's decision was quite embarrassing as well.
X (@ed24f1)
loren Wrote:
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> EC83 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Slash Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > looking back, it's impressive how much
> > reliability
> > > has changed, i remember early 00's when only
> 8
> > or
> > > 9 cars would finish the first race
> >
> > That changed at the start of 2003, when the
> cars
> > started being locked off in parc ferme
> conditions
> > between quali and the race. It soon became
> clear
> > that the teams dismantling the cars to check
> and
> > service them after quali had been causing more
> > reliability problems than it had been fixing.
>
> Probably much more to do with limitations on
> engine and gearbox changes, and rev limiters.
That no doubt has a bearing, yes. But there was a huge improvement in reliability as soon as the 2003 regs came in.
-------------------------------------------------------
> EC83 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Slash Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > looking back, it's impressive how much
> > reliability
> > > has changed, i remember early 00's when only
> 8
> > or
> > > 9 cars would finish the first race
> >
> > That changed at the start of 2003, when the
> cars
> > started being locked off in parc ferme
> conditions
> > between quali and the race. It soon became
> clear
> > that the teams dismantling the cars to check
> and
> > service them after quali had been causing more
> > reliability problems than it had been fixing.
>
> Probably much more to do with limitations on
> engine and gearbox changes, and rev limiters.
That no doubt has a bearing, yes. But there was a huge improvement in reliability as soon as the 2003 regs came in.
matt3454 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A lot of the media seem to acknowledge Petrov's
> podium as good, but what if Kubica was in the
> car.
>
> I think that the Renault would still have finished
> 3rd, with Petrov finishing a lot futher back.
Lol, what an absurd thing to say, it makes no sense, unless you are suggesting Petrovs result was only derived from Kubicas's absence.
Assuming Kubica took the third, even so, would you not think Petrov then would have been 4th? I don't get why you'd think he'd suddenly not do so well, its mad.
He drove a bloody good race, and fought for it at the start too. The car did play its part, but credit where credit is due.
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
-------------------------------------------------------
> A lot of the media seem to acknowledge Petrov's
> podium as good, but what if Kubica was in the
> car.
>
> I think that the Renault would still have finished
> 3rd, with Petrov finishing a lot futher back.
Lol, what an absurd thing to say, it makes no sense, unless you are suggesting Petrovs result was only derived from Kubicas's absence.
Assuming Kubica took the third, even so, would you not think Petrov then would have been 4th? I don't get why you'd think he'd suddenly not do so well, its mad.
He drove a bloody good race, and fought for it at the start too. The car did play its part, but credit where credit is due.
Button's move on Massa was always going to fail. His subsequent plan of believing that he was ahead so that he won't have to relinquish that position was also never going to work. Howver, the stewards decision for awarding him a drive through was based on exceeding the track limits. Unless i'm completely wrong, Vettel ran clean of the track to pass someone on the outside and got away with it. He should have been given a drive through for that as well.
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That corner exit needs to be filled with some sort of curbing or gravel.
I dont think Vettel should have got a penalty, but I certainly dont agree with the move.
The STR's was different, as mentioned, he was ahead and like Button avoided an accident. Vettel on the other hand made the choice to go off track it seemed. A penalty would have been wrong, but something should happen with regards to how a track is defined, and punishments for taking advantage off the track.
I didnt agree with Alonso's move on Massa at China, nor Kimi's start at Spa. Drivers tend to take the piss with this sort of thing because the stewards and FIA let them. These issues will be fixed with gravel or something to prevent the drivers doing this. If they make a mistake and go off there, who gives a sh*t, i just dont want to see there being an option for going off track and NOT losing time.
edit - [www.formula1onlive.com]
ermm wtf? and dont say it wasnt common knowledge back then to give the place back, so therefore ALonso needed 3 warnings. I can accept Button's penalty was fair now but did Alonso need 3 warnings? And why didnt Button get 3 warnings? Why didnt race control get back to Mclaren about the situation?
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2011 06:58PM by chet.
I dont think Vettel should have got a penalty, but I certainly dont agree with the move.
The STR's was different, as mentioned, he was ahead and like Button avoided an accident. Vettel on the other hand made the choice to go off track it seemed. A penalty would have been wrong, but something should happen with regards to how a track is defined, and punishments for taking advantage off the track.
I didnt agree with Alonso's move on Massa at China, nor Kimi's start at Spa. Drivers tend to take the piss with this sort of thing because the stewards and FIA let them. These issues will be fixed with gravel or something to prevent the drivers doing this. If they make a mistake and go off there, who gives a sh*t, i just dont want to see there being an option for going off track and NOT losing time.
edit - [www.formula1onlive.com]
ermm wtf? and dont say it wasnt common knowledge back then to give the place back, so therefore ALonso needed 3 warnings. I can accept Button's penalty was fair now but did Alonso need 3 warnings? And why didnt Button get 3 warnings? Why didnt race control get back to Mclaren about the situation?
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2011 06:58PM by chet.
So it seems Webber just threw a strop when he pulled off at the end? He hasn't posted on Twitter since Friday, and as far as I know he had no car problems at all.
It reminded me of the time Berger pulled off at the finish at Kyalami in '92 - only Berger had a legit reason for doing it.
It reminded me of the time Berger pulled off at the finish at Kyalami in '92 - only Berger had a legit reason for doing it.
Great little race career stats comparison tool! :D
[www.4mula1.ro]
Most interesting is Alonso vs Hamilton.
Considering Alonsos only been in a race winning car for 40% of his career to Lewis' 75%, makes for great reading.
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
[www.4mula1.ro]
Most interesting is Alonso vs Hamilton.
Considering Alonsos only been in a race winning car for 40% of his career to Lewis' 75%, makes for great reading.
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