The 2011 Formula One Season
Posted by madotter
There should no failures with the wing, there is nothing complicated about the system. If the system fails then the wing will revert to its default high DF posistion. If the failure occurs on the wing itself then the team needs to seriously look at its manufacturing processes!! These wings are designed to take a huge amount of strain and flex, in fact without the flex they would simply fail! Id be very very supprised to see any sort of rear wing failure that would be dangerous. Maybe failure of the mechanism (again there shouldnt be!) but certainly not a failure of the wing itself.
Kimi's incident was caused by his tyre delamination which then broke the wing i think! or was it just the delamination?
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Kimi's incident was caused by his tyre delamination which then broke the wing i think! or was it just the delamination?
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
It was just a wing failure, there was no involvement from tyre delamination before or after. He went flying off because of the obvious sudden loss of downforce.
Maybe you're thinking about Nurburgring 2005, or Hakkinen in 1999.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 05:47PM by EC83.
Maybe you're thinking about Nurburgring 2005, or Hakkinen in 1999.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2011 05:47PM by EC83.
Ahhhh! I thought he meant Nurburgring 05. Wrong year, wrong track!
Even still that was a flat spot that caused the failure wasnt it! wow, 3 wrongs out of 3!
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Even still that was a flat spot that caused the failure wasnt it! wow, 3 wrongs out of 3!
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Yep :P
Don't see any problem with wings TBH. There was the isolated incident last winter where the Virgin front wing broke(I remember the conversation about it in the testing thread - much win) but that was a freak occurrance.
Don't see any problem with wings TBH. There was the isolated incident last winter where the Virgin front wing broke(I remember the conversation about it in the testing thread - much win) but that was a freak occurrance.
accidents like Webbers last year made me think tarmac runoffs are a bad idea. yes you can go back to the track without problems but its more dangerous if you have an accident because you cant reduce speed. Kovy´s accident in Barcelona could have been much worse if it was a tarmac runoff
I hate tarmac run-offs for the simple reason they dumb down circuits and take the challenge out of the racing. It has meant more drivers have been able to continue in races after going off, but the punishment for missing an apex or outbraking yourself used to be severe, whereas now they have get out of jail free cards.
IMO they should bring back the gravel traps, but make them gently banked so that cars heading towards a barrier dig in. Think that would be the best of both worlds.
IMO they should bring back the gravel traps, but make them gently banked so that cars heading towards a barrier dig in. Think that would be the best of both worlds.
I think gravel is generally better if a car is spinning, but not so good if it's travelling head on (unless the brakes fail, where tarmac wouldn't slot a car at all). They both have pluses and minuses.
Schumacher's car in 1999 barely slowed at all on the tarmac - most of the speed was as the car slid along the gravel.
I think generally tarmac is preferred as it's far more predictable - there's less chance of take off and less chance of digging in and flipping. With tarmac you know exactly what you're getting. I still hate the stuff though. They need tarmac with some strips of goo on top that melts in the heat and gets really tacky and sticky, so if they go off, the car survives but the driver has a huge disadvantage and may need to pit for new tyres... but that likely would be ultra slippery in the wet, so would make an accident worse!
It's a tough problem... maybe they should just use Brundles idea of spikes after all.
Schumacher's car in 1999 barely slowed at all on the tarmac - most of the speed was as the car slid along the gravel.
I think generally tarmac is preferred as it's far more predictable - there's less chance of take off and less chance of digging in and flipping. With tarmac you know exactly what you're getting. I still hate the stuff though. They need tarmac with some strips of goo on top that melts in the heat and gets really tacky and sticky, so if they go off, the car survives but the driver has a huge disadvantage and may need to pit for new tyres... but that likely would be ultra slippery in the wet, so would make an accident worse!
It's a tough problem... maybe they should just use Brundles idea of spikes after all.
Damn physics
thestig88 Wrote:
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> An issue they have with gravel traps is, take
> Webbers flip for example, that when cars (single
> seaters) roll over the rollbar can dig into the
> gravel to the point where the drivers head becomes
> the rollbar, plus with the mandatory use of hans,
> it puts the drivers neck in a vulnerable position.
> Pedro Diniz found this out back at Nurburgring in
> 1999 fortuantly without injury.
Not quite - in Diniz's case, the rollbar actually collapsed because the car dug in at a weird angle:
The new trend seems to be towards a border of grass, then a stretch of tarmac, then some gravel. I think this might be the best balance, as it still gives drivers a problem if they dip a wheel off of the track. Of course, the other alternative is the Paul Ricard solution of sticky stripes backed up by super-abrasive stripes.
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> An issue they have with gravel traps is, take
> Webbers flip for example, that when cars (single
> seaters) roll over the rollbar can dig into the
> gravel to the point where the drivers head becomes
> the rollbar, plus with the mandatory use of hans,
> it puts the drivers neck in a vulnerable position.
> Pedro Diniz found this out back at Nurburgring in
> 1999 fortuantly without injury.
Not quite - in Diniz's case, the rollbar actually collapsed because the car dug in at a weird angle:
The new trend seems to be towards a border of grass, then a stretch of tarmac, then some gravel. I think this might be the best balance, as it still gives drivers a problem if they dip a wheel off of the track. Of course, the other alternative is the Paul Ricard solution of sticky stripes backed up by super-abrasive stripes.
Incident 2k9 Wrote:
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> Well tarmac does give the drivers another chance
> back out there, but it didn't do a lot to stop
> Massa in Hungary. Gravel slows the car down but
> it's race over. Some kind of tradeoff needs to be
> implemented where it creates the necessary
> friction and trapping tonstop a car but gives a
> second chance to some of the drivers...
>
> It's an interesting point though...
Massas hungary accident was different. He apparently had dead weight on both pedals... so really there wasnt attempt to try and stop.
I view tarmac run-offs as much safer but they do have the disaddvantage of not punishing drivers... Gav has pretty much summed up the two as well as can be really! The point about cars skiding/sliding over the surface of the gravel is one of the main factors IMO. The cars often bounced across the gravel with no control whatsoever. At least with tarmac there is that slight element of control. But it does depend on the type of incident.
Flat bottom racecars are pretty pitch sensitive too, so if one of these cars were to get nose up (at speed) caused by skipping over gravel, then Webber Valencia incidents will not be as rare as you think. Generally the track guys will do as much as they can to help prevent such accidents. Bollards like at T1 Barcelona are fine for slow speed corners...
But yeah, as Gav points both are good and bad but IMO tarmac wins the saftey aspect.
edit - Gav, great idea with the sticky stuff. Thing is, F1/FIA will probably try nad go for the most complicated/stupid idea instead of going for an idea that could actually work!!
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2011 02:36AM by chet.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well tarmac does give the drivers another chance
> back out there, but it didn't do a lot to stop
> Massa in Hungary. Gravel slows the car down but
> it's race over. Some kind of tradeoff needs to be
> implemented where it creates the necessary
> friction and trapping tonstop a car but gives a
> second chance to some of the drivers...
>
> It's an interesting point though...
Massas hungary accident was different. He apparently had dead weight on both pedals... so really there wasnt attempt to try and stop.
I view tarmac run-offs as much safer but they do have the disaddvantage of not punishing drivers... Gav has pretty much summed up the two as well as can be really! The point about cars skiding/sliding over the surface of the gravel is one of the main factors IMO. The cars often bounced across the gravel with no control whatsoever. At least with tarmac there is that slight element of control. But it does depend on the type of incident.
Flat bottom racecars are pretty pitch sensitive too, so if one of these cars were to get nose up (at speed) caused by skipping over gravel, then Webber Valencia incidents will not be as rare as you think. Generally the track guys will do as much as they can to help prevent such accidents. Bollards like at T1 Barcelona are fine for slow speed corners...
But yeah, as Gav points both are good and bad but IMO tarmac wins the saftey aspect.
edit - Gav, great idea with the sticky stuff. Thing is, F1/FIA will probably try nad go for the most complicated/stupid idea instead of going for an idea that could actually work!!
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2011 02:36AM by chet.
Apparently this years Ferrari will be named the F150 and will prominently feature the Italian flag.
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alexf1man Wrote:
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> Info about the Team Lotus TL11 car.
And a teaser picture:
Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?
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> Info about the Team Lotus TL11 car.
And a teaser picture:
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