Schumacher V's Lewis (Spoiler Alert!) and losing it?

Well anyone who caught the Gp would have seen something we were sadly deprived of in 2007, and something we've been awaiting ever since the suggestion of Schumachers return.

One overtaking genius, verses another.

Well, we got it in China and who else felt sorry for Michael?

Brundle pointed it out aswell but Lewis to me looked to give Michael far too much respect when trying to overtake. To the point where it looked asif he was toying with Michael and I just couldnt help but feel sorry for him! It was almost sad to see! If you saw, then who else would agree?

I just cant help but feel in that yellow helmet of his, Lewis was giggling away thinking, 'wow, did this guy really win 7 wdc's?'.

Anyway, point of this topic is, has Schumacher lost it?

I will give him another 3 races, back in Europe we will see 'normal' conditions, so he should be able to run a clean race, then we will get a gauge on his performance. To me though, one thing is certain, and that will not change with time.... Michael is not a match for Lewis, Alonso, Button, Vettel, Nico or even Webber (dont mean to beat on Webber but he isnt of the same standard ) imo. Sure he might find his speed again, but that ruthlessness has gone forever. It went the moment he decided to retire in 06. I watch him race, drive but just think that Michael always has something in the back of his mind, family, saftey. Talent like his does not disapear, I believe you just lose the ability to dig deep and find it. We all remember Brazil 06. Some would say it was a show of the best car overtaking the slower ones, but I saw it as a guy out there to enjoy driving the best car in the world on one of the best tracks in the world.

The other thing that worried me about him was his intentions.. During pre-season he had many interviews which said he was looking forward to getting back to driving, but he and Ross need to decide together if they both want the same thing.... It was never clear with Michael why he came back, was it the competition which bought him back? Was it the thought of winning again? Or was it the thought of driving an F1 car again? It was never clear imo. Ross obviously wants a guy out to win, but is that Michael? Take Button for example, why did he go to Mclaren? Well the word that popped up a million times was 'challenge'. It was clear Button wanted the challenge of Lewis.

But yeah, if Michael is not much improved in another 3 races, if I were Ross I would ahve to strongly consider bringing in Nick. Michael needs to decided whether he wants to drive or win, and if he is subconciously holding something back (from fear of saftey or whatever) then he needs to realize it and go. I think Michael will be gracious enough to realize, and do it on his own accord, but this is hurting him imo. Sure his acheivements will not go forgotten, but his comeback will not be forgotten either !

Anyway, I am probably jumping the gun abit here but just my thoughts on a once racing legend.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

I thought Schumacher covered Button brilliantly into the hairpin - by far and away the best of those who he did pass there. I had a bit of a smile as his positioning left Lewis with little choice. In the end Hamilton had to get it done way before the braking zone, and even then Schumacher nearly got back through.

His moves down the inside into turn 9 or whatever is were good though. The problem with defending there is that you'll leave yourself more open into the following hairpin, but I'm surprised more didn't try that move - if nothing more it would have made the guy ahead think the following lap and maybe try to cover it leaving himself more open in the following corners.

Schumacher's adopted driving style killed him on Sunday though. Presumably he's trying to make the front end pointy by making the rear less efficient (most likely by stiffening an aspect of the suspension). That's all good and well other than tyre wear and presumably traction, both of which became more and more critical on Sunday. It's a horrible compromise and all the more clearer in marginal conditions.

I want to see him in Spain first. He apparently gets a a car that's better suited to him, so I'm curious to see how well he'll go at Barcelona.

So far, yes, he hasn't been as quick as he used to be, but did we expect that from him? I didn't. He needs to get up to speed in a car he doesn't like. I think in the second half of the season he'll probably be stronger and make it to the podium a few times, but I can't see him winning this season.

Schumacher's had a car designed specifically for him since, what, 1993? Had a whole team focused around him since 1993/1994? Can't say I ever expected him to be at the top of his game this year. Will be interesting to see how much he improves over the season.

I agree with gav, I thought he covered Lewis very well and did as much as he could in a car that was 1-2 seconds slower at the time.

Also, he finished one place behind Massa, who had to pass him before the end, so he was clearly on par with him this weekend in a car which was at a similar pace.

Anyway, point of this topic is, has Schumacher lost it?

No.

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He was never going to come back and be a WDC contender, was he? I was amongst the crowd expecting him to be beaten by Rosberg too. The fact is, he's just come back because he loves competing and it's good fun. And like it or not, that changes your mentality to a weekend.

Before he was going out thinking, "I want to beat everyone."
Now he's going out thinking, "I want to race with people and enjoy the sport I love."

Michael hasn't "lost it". He's not as sharp as he was, undoubtedly, but IMHO he's also not as driven as he was. Nevertheless, he can still drive a racing car bloody quick. He was the best option available to Mercedes at the time, and is probably doing a better job than a lot of other drivers could. He's not beating Rosberg, but then did anyone really expect him to?

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no way, he hasn't lost it just because China race was a disaster... but i'm sure he must have gone through a lot of feelings, bad feelings

without a doubt that was the worst race we've seen from him, but, keep in mind, in Australia, when the conditions where similar, he kept himself close to Alonso and was doing competitive times, in Malaysia, when the track was at the worst during qualy, he was the one who started doing the fastest lap times, at both tracks it wasn't until the track started to get faster that he struggled, but not that bad as at Shanghai that's for sure, but at Shanghai was never really wet, and never really dried?...

i think i have to agree with gav, this weekend was a nightmare for him, but somehow through setup he tried to make the car drive totally different just to fit his style, and that seemed to cost him a lot of time, the first thing a driver looks in a setup is to feel confident, without it they just don't push or perform at their optimal level... i'm sure that loosing the place to Hamilton means jack for Michael, i mean Lewis went on to finish 2nd, and his teammate Jenson won the race, there's nothing to worry there, they had the fastest car

what might worry him is loosing to Petrov... i really doubt Schumacher lost all of that just because he lost it, imho there are more mechanical reasons to it than that.

about the reasons of the comeback keeping Michael under performing........ at all, we, that have seen him drive before, and win before know this guy's willingness and his ego, if anything he will try again next year and the year after that to prove right, that i believe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2010 07:59PM by Slash.

chet Wrote:
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> One overtaking genius, verses another.

Ok, so one's Lewis. The other is?

Mild sarcasm aside, i never really had MS marked up as one of the best overtakers ever. Mansell springs to mind for a start. That said, his defence against Lewis was excellent, as has already been pointed out. I think most of the blame for his poor-ish showings can be blamed on the car being designed for pretty much the opposite style to his.

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Sure, Schummi is a great driver.

But he also drove for great teams.

Take away the HUGE significance of the car he was driving, and how many of those titles he simply waltzed over any opposition on merit, and not purely by the car being a lot more reliable and quicker. Look how often Rubens was behind him on those occasions.

As I said, sure, he is a great driver.

But I do rate the likes of Alonso FAR more superior. Fisi was never always behind him on those occasions as many as Rubens was. I think that says more about the car than it does the driver skill.


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

superchargednut Wrote:
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> Also, he finished one place behind Massa, who had
> to pass him before the end, so he was clearly on
> par with him this weekend in a car which was at a
> similar pace.

In this case, I don't think the end of race position was representative of speed over the weekend. Schumacher made most of his ground through strategy, for example changing back to slicks one lap before the rest at the start of the race. Because he was a long way behind Rosberg, he didn't have to worry about queuing at pitstops either, as Webber, Vettel, Massa and Alonso did in particular.

For example, Petrov finished one position behind Vettel, but that was due to his tyre strategy and conservation, not his speed.

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X (@ed24f1)

Schumacher is the great.. with the past teachings of ayrton senna to his oath. i dont ever underestimate him under any circumstances. And so for lewis.. although lewis does approach aggresivel.. he cannot match michael schumacher. Put schumacher on that same car lewis drove for next year and lewis will cry out loud... i know deep inside lewis he underestimate michael today as with his 2010 racing results..

i think michael now drover more cautiously.. maybe a sign of him to not do his "Driving styles back in the early 90's" and his trying to driver clean...so people would think he is not any makingdirty move anymore.. but i think michael has to unleashed his dirtness ability to unlish the power within his will. And montezemolo was right, its michael twin-brother. And i do think that mercedes car doesnt fit to his style. If his on ferrari car right now. Im 100% his getting the job done than he was doing right now with mercedes.






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2010 03:55AM by micky-cannonball.

senninho Wrote:
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> chet Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One overtaking genius, verses another.
>
> Ok, so one's Lewis. The other is?

I really wouldn't describe Lewis as an overtaking genius either TBH. He's not bad at overtaking, I'll give him that, but he's not a Mansell or a Montoya, and even Jenson is arguably a more talented overtaker than Lewis is. Lewis just has a tendency to push his luck and drive recklessly when in close proximity to other cars(Monza 2008 is a prime example), which isn't the same as being a good overtaker.

But regarding MS, I think that in China he had his first real chance this year to show something of his old self, and I think he put said chance to good use. As said already, his defences against Lewis and against Massa were excellent, and I think he did a pretty good job altogether considering he was in a car that was (1) 1-2 seconds a lap slower than the cars he spent most of the race battling with, and (2) virtually the polar opposite to the kind of car and setup he ideally likes.
I'm really looking forward to see how he goes from Spain onwards.

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Monaco could be a good chance as well, because that will mask the car's limitations more than most other tracks.

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X (@ed24f1)

[www.viddler.com] this is just direspecting senna...anyways his words is just listening to god's word. And i know it is lewis idol.... i think the video is just showing who inspire lewis.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2010 04:39AM by micky-cannonball.

Any comparison between Senna and Hamilton is disrespecting Senna TBH.

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Hamilton wasnt 'toying'' with Schumacher, he just stuffed up. he had a massive car advantage, and wasted 2 or 3 laps behing schumacher.
i think see Schumacher vs Vettel was more interesting. And Vettel got the job done better, no f-duct or mercedes engine and straight through on first attempt to pass Schumacher.

If Lewis didn't make his break in a McLaren, the Senna comparison would be absolutely minor in my opinion.

It is just the McLaren factor making it so easy to put them together.

Senna was McLaren's god. Lewis is the new McLaren god.

One god passes to the next, totally unrelated bar the circumstances they are in - the McLaren team itself. Oh, and a yellow helmet.

Take that away. Put Lewis in the 2005/2006 Renault as his debut team, doing just as well.

Senna I think not.

What next, a blue and red line stripe helmet in a Williams who is an aggressive overtaker, what's that, the next Mansell? Oh look, cop eating a donut...


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2010 09:49AM by danm.

LOL Dan, well said.

Actually, if there was any top driver from the 80s that Lewis reminded me of, it would be Nelson Piquet.

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Yeah, or even further back, more like Gilles Villeneuve than Senna. Lewis is not rounded and polished - he is still spiky, sharp and highly rough at the edges.

If Senna was a poo, he'd be one of those you take after a long hard day at work. Very complete, start to finish feel good factor, you know when the poo is done, you know where you stand, almost sophisticated, relaxing with an elegant truffle texture. but still spicy enough to remind you what you ate for dinner. High quality stuff.

Lewis, if he was a poo, would be the sort you take after eating doritos non stop for a week, and then have a massive party, a curry, followed by leftover kebab for breakfast. Very fast, liquid fast infact, can blow you away, but still riddled with hidden gems and awkward sharp spiky bits. That'll be the doritos then! Or, in F1 terms, the random tantrums and outrageous racing moments.


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2010 05:06PM by danm.