Bring back 'the c*ck'

how the heck do you get crofty these days? when i press red button, all i get is the option for onboard cameras - no audio options whatsoever... maybe my PC (i watch using a TV card on a PC) is broken...

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Dave, I'm surprised that you of all people are trying to push your own opinion as fact. When someone else offers their opinion, it's not like you to dismiss it offhand. I prefer Allen to Legard... that's not a statement for you to try and disprove, that's a point of view that is (can you believe it?) different to yours.

Are you even reading my posts? I said many of us disagree? I didn't say you are wrong, I simply posted what many in this thread are saying?

I don't have the red button. I'm stuck with Legard.

You are on the internet. Unless you are on a 56k AOL connection, you have a choice. Utilise it.

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i can't believe some of you are suggesting bringing back Allen, he was truly awful with his whole style and presentation (fake is the word that springs to mind), even though he did know his stuff.

while Legard can be a bit slow and boring, you don't get the urge to commit mass-murder everytime he opens his mouth, the way you got when Allen spoke.

Allen is ok in the press conference as he doesn't have to raise (fake) excitement for the viewers as he tried to during the races, he can talk in a calm and normal manner and so i have no problem with him in that context.

as others have suggested, just switch the commentary track to the Radio 5 feed. you will miss Brundle, but you will avoid Legard if he annoys you so much.

but IMO, Legard doesn't even register on my annoyance radar, i can easily block out his mumblings while still taking notice of Martin. Allen just sent that radar into overdrive and made me want to murder his children.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

harjinator Wrote:
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> how the heck do you get crofty these days? when i
> press red button, all i get is the option for
> onboard cameras - no audio options whatsoever...
> maybe my PC (i watch using a TV card on a PC) is
> broken...

the onboard cameras are in small windows at the side (option 2 or 3 usually), but if you press 1, you will get the main big-screen feed full-screen, and then you will have the option of pressing the left and right arrows to choose the TV comms, Radio5 comms, or no commentary. last season they even did a children's commentary for younger viewers, but i think they've removed that now.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

Do they still have the CBBC commentary? Would you like to be exposed to that? No.

I agree with Dave on this one.

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Muks_C
while Legard can be a bit slow and boring, you don't get the urge to commit mass-murder everytime he opens his mouth, the way you got when Allen spoke.

See, this is where that whole opinion thing comes in. Every time he utters phrases like "up the hill", "across the line", "he's pushing on", "he's on a charge"... it drives me absolutely mad. That's not commentary, it's just making noises. If that's all you're going to say, don't say it. Let the cars do the talking instead. It's not just occasional either, it's every lap.

My main problem with James Allen was his fake excitement, but that's also true of Legard. The dumbing down was a problem, but that was ITV's stance more than James Allen's.

Incident 2k9 Wrote:
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> Do they still have the CBBC commentary? Would you
> like to be exposed to that? No.
>
> I agree with Dave on this one.


if this is a reply to my post, where have i said i don't agree with Dave? and CBBC commentary was fine if it helped kids get into F1. it's obviously not aimed at me, so i didn't listen to it. what harm is there if under 10's want to listen to it?

for everything good (fantastic) the BBC have given us, surely you guys can put up with Legard? the problem was ITV's whole presentation was poor, absolutely dumbed down, with muppets like Blundell suposedly giving their insight, plus a host who deemed disinterested in F1, plus adverts and rubbish features about drivers cooking. Brundle was the only good thing about the ITV coverage.

the BBC have improved 100% on all of these, and although Legard might be the weak link, the rest of the improvements surely make up for it? plus you even get David Croft if you don't like Legard, so how much do you guys want? for ages people have been calling for him to be available on the tv coverage, and now he is through the red button (or iplayer). you might lose Brundle, but we've come so far from where ITV were, it's only a small sacrifice if you dislike Legard that much.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

My main problem with James Allen was his fake excitement, but that's also true of Legard. The dumbing down was a problem, but that was ITV's stance more than James Allen's.


That was Allen too. Every race without fail he'd ask the utterly moronic question, "Martin, explain to us how important the tyres are". @#$%& you James, @#$%& you. Legard may be dull and may over use some terms, but he treats the fans with respect. James was an idiot who treated the fans even worse.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2010 01:13PM by DaveEllis.

Sorry Dave, but we're going to have to disagree on this one. Allen has been fine every time I've seen him or his work... except when he was in the ITV commentary box. He's got his faults, I just happen to think they're far less annoying than those of Legard, and regardless of what you say, I feel that ITV made him into the muppet we heard. He was a whore to the establishment.

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Muks_C
for everything good (fantastic) the BBC have given us, surely you guys can put up with Legard?

Put up with him certainly, but it's frustrating when we feel there are better options available - the best one being within their own stable.

Legard completely annoys me, he sounds like he should be commentating on those crappy family gameshows, a bit like Stuart Hall..

Someone mentioned Brundle won't work with David Croft, why is that?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2010 01:48PM by salvasirignano.

Dave, how did Allen treat the fans worse? More so how does Legard disrespect/mistreat the fans, and what does Allen do to make it worse? Has he come to your house shat on your carpet and left even without a goodbye? If you feel disrepected or mistreated why bother listening?

its easy to forget that kids and other fans not quite as into F1 as us also watch. There is a need to sound dumb and ask 'those questions' sometimes.

Also, if it were Brundle and our ideal candidate whoever that may be, we would still find fault somewhere because thats just people in general. If its not legard, then im sure Eddie would get the flak, if not him, then DC, if not him, then the camera man or something.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Sorry Dave, but we're going to have to disagree on this one. Allen has been fine every time I've seen him or his work... except when he was in the ITV commentary box.

But ITVs briefing wasn't going to be "Sit in the box, talk about cars, act like a twat". It is just how he is. In text he is fine, but it'd take an extra special idea to @#$%& that up. ITV was just the boat this muppet happened to be on. Sitting writing in the office and being able to think about how you communicate is completely different than being forced to communicate on the fly.

Put up with him certainly, but it's frustrating when we feel there are better options available - the best one being within their own stable.

But Croft isn't an option. He is as much an option as Murray currently is. It cannot currently happen. The next option is finding Ben Edwards, but he isn't as good as his mini-cult following seems to think.

Dave, how did Allen treat the fans worse?

"Martin, explain to us how important tyres are".

More so how does Legard disrespect/mistreat the fans, and what does Allen do to make it worse?

Wait, wat? That isn't what I said.

If you feel disrepected or mistreated why bother listening?

Listen to Legard? Are you reading anything anyone says? I'm defending Legard. I done my best not to listen to Allen by watching Speed TV coverage and/or BBC Radio 5 Live at times. In the ITV days your options were extremely limited. Very low quality internet streams or trying to sync Radio 5 Live with the TV pictures. Now we have multiple choices. Don't like Legard, utilises the options.

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my mistake. i miss-read.

"Martin, explain to us how important tyres are".

Like I said, how many people are there that watch an F1 race but still do not understand the importance of the 4 black things at each corner? Well the answer will be far higher than the people who do know imo ! The commentators have to find a way to look at both sets of fans, and Allen-Brundle was a good combo for that. One expert and one dumb guy. Despite in truth both being two experts.

edit - what would be good to know is how many people switch on the forum, which is more so for us then the rest of the fans. For Malaysia I watched the race with a friend, he's not quite the fan I am but does like to keep up... As soon as the race finished I went to switch the forum, and he said "its boring, let's watch something else".

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2010 03:05PM by chet.

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DaveEllis
But ITVs briefing wasn't going to be "Sit in the box, talk about cars, act like a twat". It is just how he is.

Yet he was perfectly fine while in the pit lane. Talked about time and strategy too much, but then that was his job and it complimented Murray and Brundle well. ITV didn't get the pit reporters to do any pre-race pieces back then... just got Louise to interview Johnny in her bra and Beverley Turner going to the Monaco ball...

You clearly don't like him and you're not alone in that. I'm hardly his biggest fan either, but it's hardly likely that he was perfectly suited to ITV when he jumped into the commentary box - that was how ITV wanted to present the show.

We're not getting anywhere though. You're just going to keep on saying the same old as will I. As you said yourself, it's opinion.

Quote
DaveEllis
The next option is finding Ben Edwards, but he isn't as good as his mini-cult following seems to think.

Ben Edwards is a damn sight better than this dial-a-phrase we currently have. Better than Allen too. But presumably he wants to be more diverse than solely commentating on F1 and equally he'll be unavailable.

I'm sure there are other commentators around too. It's not like they plucked Jake Humphrey from the F1 paddock. They promoted Legard from within, and presumably thought he'd eventually dial out his radioims... that hasn't happened - it still sounds like a horse race.

Ah, I see where you mis-read. No worries.

However no other sport dumbs it down for the fans. Boxing commentators never ask each other "so just how important is it not to get punched in the face?" and football commentators never ask "so just how important is it to actually have possession?" No other sport treats the fans like that, so why did we have to put up with it?

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Gav, to be fair, Allen was fine in the pit lane because it was reporting. They spoke to him for 30 seconds at a time, he told them the info he had found out and that was it. The problem was when he tried to inject his opinion into things (as commentators are meant to do), and tried to do observational commentary, it went extremely badly wrong. The man is a good reporter and good writer, but that is a completely different set of skills to commentating, and Allen has as much of those skills as I do. Hell, Jenson was far better at Monaco than Allen has ever been.

We're not getting anywhere though. You're just going to keep on saying the same old as will I. As you said yourself, it's opinion.

Yeah, but as I keep saying the problem I have now is we have a choice and people are still complaining. When it was James, whether you liked him or not you were stuck with him. Now we have 2 commentary teams to chose from. So why don't people simply switch? I keep reading about how awesome the team of Croft/Ant is (although I think Ants a pillock who really thinks far too much of himself), so I don't get why some people hate Legard so much but don't use this supposedly better option.

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superchargednut Wrote:
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> I want James Allen back, and I never thought i'd
> say that. I've heard 'he knows the time to beat...
> is this gonna be good enough?!' too many times.


My personal favourite is "through the Fish Market!" (Valencia)

Quote
DaveEllis
Now we have 2 commentary teams to chose from. So why don't people simply switch? I keep reading about how awesome the team of Croft/Ant is (although I think Ants a pillock who really thinks far too much of himself), so I don't get why some people hate Legard so much but don't use this supposedly better option.

I can't speak for others, but for me it's because a pain to record with a PVR. In fact since the BBC cut the interactive channels last Autumn I don't think it's actually possible to record it with FreeView. Channel 301 didn't give me the 5Live feed the last time I checked, it gave me the onboard feed, 302 doesn't exist any more and 303 had nothing at the time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2010 04:14PM by gav.

at our house, we have a DVD recorder with built in freeview, a virgin box on the basic package, and a sky box on the free package (just receiving freeview).

so i record the race through the recorder's freeview from BBC1, record the forum from 301 (and all the practice sessions), and watch the race either through the virgin or sky boxes, both have the red button on BBC1, allowing me to choose the commentaries.

so i can record the race with the "proper" tv feed and comms, but experience it live with the choice of comms through the red button.

you can't unfortunately change the comms on the red button race coverage through the red button on the recorder's freeview (on my recorder anyway, don't know about others). and 301 only gives onboard without commentary or options.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

yeah, problem i had for malaysia (once i'd finally found channel 301) is that - i was recording race on Beeb 1, and tried to press red button. WMC won't let me, so i tried it off beeb 2, which worked, but then all i had was onboard shots with no options. bit weird cos it worked fine in quallyfying (tho i couldn't record it with crofty and co...).

And i think Brundle's not been as good since he went to BBC... his knowledge is becoming increasingly outdated - let us not forget that he last drove a f1 car in anger 14 years ago, wheras ant, cocky little so & so that he is, last drove a few years ago - i find his insights slightly more, err, insightful most of the time... i mean "he looks like he's fighting an octopus" (Brundle on Petrov)... what was THAT about?!

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