Oh @#$%& (new points system and more)

well, at leats we won't have those stupid conservative drives for points now, the "damage limitation" drives

A better solution IMO would've been to change the number of points for a 2nd place to 7, giving a 10-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 system. That would've maintained the traditional system while giving the winner a bigger advantage, without garbage like this.

---

I screamed in agony when I read this in Maths.

Why oh Why would you have to change the goddamn rule on points and who wins the WDC. It was working fine as it was. You didn't win fine, you get over it and give the same damn dedication next year. Even the 12... points system would've worked well and would've atleast given us more over taking opportunities. This just doesn't feel like F1 anymore where they had rules which were actually taken into consideration for a season and THEN implemented to see how they would work. RIP F1 is all I can say sadly .

I think the change can only be positive.

We're always saying how we hate it when a driver does a 'safe' drive to 3rd. We've always said that wins need more glory. This is exactly what the new points system will bring. Better racing - the whole reason we watch the sport.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]

Almost seems like we're having a sudden rush of rules passed on to this 2009 season so if this year pans out great the FIA/FOM will have leverage on more proposals for the future and link the overall success to a rule that by itself would have probably hurt the sport (points system), but its effect getting overshadowed by the overall result of the technical-side changes.

I think the whole system is useless. The WMSC is run by the FIA. The FIA/WMSC come up with a plan and then the WMSC votes on it. The whole process is going through the FIA. How can that be objective? It's all one-sided. It'd be like Di Montezemolo gives Kimi the driver of the year award and the Ferrari team would vote on it. Not very objective, is it?

Hologide schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm going to reseve judgement on this actually. I
> reckon that there are 8 cars on the grid capable
> of challenging for wins. If there's one thing
> that's been missing from F1 the last few years,
> its been killer tense last lap battle. Pales very
> badly in comparison to MotoGP and especially World
> Superbikes, where almost every other race rides on
> the last lap.
>
> If we see half of F1 races come down to a last lap
> battle then I'll be a happy person.
>
> If the championship is over by August, however, I
> won't be.
>
> What I fear is, once the field is strung out after
> 10 laps or so, that infield battles become
> incredibly diluted. The days of seeing a great
> drive from the back of the field to snatch a
> championship saving podium may well be dead.


Good point there, though I'd prefer exciting racing and a boring championship then a 2007-style season: dull racing and yes, a thrilling season finale, but I prefer good racing in every race, not just the final race.

However, seriously hoping now no one dominates in Ferrari 2002 style.

_____________________________________________________________________

Bring back the racing

An excellent point by some bloke called "Damon" on the F1Fanatic blog...


If you’re in, say, 10th position with 15 laps to go - all you can do is fight for the best possible position which usually is far from winning, but at least gives you some points.

Just look realistically. You don’t win races only because you want to. In most races, the standings after the second leg of pitstops look more or less like this:

1. Hamilton 40 laps completed
2. Massa + 16 sec
3. Kubica + 27 sec
4. Trulli + 43 sec
5. Raikonnen + 49 sec
6. Vettel + 1:05
7. Button + 1 lap

Will Vettel suddenly make miracles and race for the win?? Nope.
Will Kubica suddenly be 2 seconds/lap faster to catch Massa AND Hamilton and win the race?? Nope.
He would love to - but that’s not possible. And the mere knowledge that he needs to win the race to have a chance to win the WDC won’t help him much on the track, or will it?
Needing every single point he can score, he will still drive as fast as he can, so if Massa makes a mistake, he could get the 2nd place = 2 points more in the championship. But knowing that 2nd or 3rd place is not much of a difference, since neither is a win, he will not try hard.

And now look at Raikonnen. He’s 6 secs behind Trulli.
Would he push and try to catch Trulli and overtake him, knowing that he needs every single point in the WDC?
Yes, he would.
Will he push knowing that scoring one point more won’t give him anything? Not really.
Perhaps he will, perhaps he won’t. The motivation will be a lot less.
And if that’s one of the last races in the season, he might as well just quit the race.

---

Circuit Thermalito

Liverpool Waterfront Circuit (WIP)

Again as many have said initially i do not like this, it depends how it pans over the season but i don't see it being successful.

Moving to 12,9..... etc would be much more successful, although the 10,7 would have also done the job to keep the tradition of 10 points.

I could however see Brawn being strong for the first 5 race, Button winning all 5 (yeah right) and then winning the championship as everyone else fights over the remaining races.

Fincent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> An excellent point by some bloke called "Damon" on
> the F1Fanatic blog...
>
>
> If you’re in, say, 10th position with 15 laps to
> go - all you can do is fight for the best possible
> position which usually is far from winning, but at
> least gives you some points.
>
> Just look realistically. You don’t win races
> only because you want to. In most races, the
> standings after the second leg of pitstops look
> more or less like this:
>
> 1. Hamilton 40 laps completed
> 2. Massa + 16 sec
> 3. Kubica + 27 sec
> 4. Trulli + 43 sec
> 5. Raikonnen + 49 sec
> 6. Vettel + 1:05
> 7. Button + 1 lap
>
> Will Vettel suddenly make miracles and race for
> the win?? Nope.
> Will Kubica suddenly be 2 seconds/lap faster to
> catch Massa AND Hamilton and win the race?? Nope.
> He would love to - but that’s not possible. And
> the mere knowledge that he needs to win the race
> to have a chance to win the WDC won’t help him
> much on the track, or will it?
> Needing every single point he can score, he will
> still drive as fast as he can, so if Massa makes a
> mistake, he could get the 2nd place = 2 points
> more in the championship. But knowing that 2nd or
> 3rd place is not much of a difference, since
> neither is a win, he will not try hard.
>
> And now look at Raikonnen. He’s 6 secs behind
> Trulli.
> Would he push and try to catch Trulli and overtake
> him, knowing that he needs every single point in
> the WDC?
> Yes, he would.
> Will he push knowing that scoring one point more
> won’t give him anything? Not really.
> Perhaps he will, perhaps he won’t. The
> motivation will be a lot less.
> And if that’s one of the last races in the
> season, he might as well just quit the race.
>

Brilliant post - my thoughts exactly

This seems an extremely rushed rule which is unecessary and just seems to take the shine off of last year's brilliant championship finale.

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here and say contrary to Damon on F1blog-thingy, that I imagine that all drivers who believe they have the potential to win a race will push considerably harder over the opening laps, be more ambitious with overtaking moves in the opening stint (could this end the Trulli-train effect?) and overall we could see much tighter opening stages to a grand prix. A result of this would be much closer finishes.

I think we should reserve judgement, at least for the time being.

The key to this points system working is to not have a dominant team.

F1 had 7 different winners last season. Now that team performance has been put in a blender and scrambled who knows what might happen. Maybe this change should have waited a season.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2009 08:44PM by Hologide.

matt3454 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DaveEllis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why do F1 do this? Why are they determined to
> f**k
> > everything up? 2009 was looking like it was
> going
> > to be an awesome year, and they pulled this out?
>
> >
> > The 2008 championship was decided on the last
> > corner of the last lap of the last race. So who
> > looked at that situation and thought "hmmm,
> that's
> > not good enough, lets change how the points
> work"
>
>
> Ferrari?
well maybe, Di-Montezemlo has been the only person calling for change, this year when Massa lost, and in 2003 when MS took the WC (6 wins) by 2 points from KR (1 win)

i have got to say that that I'm very disappointed with this rule change, the points were changed in 2003 after MS kept stomping away with the championship. They just should of gone back to the old system (pre2002) it would have provided the same results, and would have been easier for the public to understand.

The only issue is limiting to 6th place on the points was making it very tough for smaller teams, back in the day there were more chances of reliability issues and the odd result to regularly come by to some mid-table squad. Technology has been taking away the added value of "chance" so you can't go back to a points system that doesn't award anyone past 6th spot. 11,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 seems acceptable to me, it really emphasizes the winner and there's the smallest of gaps between each of the remaining points finishers.

Guimengo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only issue is limiting to 6th place on the
> points was making it very tough for smaller teams,
> back in the day there were more chances of
> reliability issues and the odd result to regularly
> come by to some mid-table squad. Technology has
> been taking away the added value of "chance" so
> you can't go back to a points system that doesn't
> award anyone past 6th spot. 11,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 seems
> acceptable to me, it really emphasizes the winner
> and there's the smallest of gaps between each of
> the remaining points finishers.


For me it would be better 12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1, 4 points between 1st and 2nd, and 2 points between 2nd and 3rd.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2009 09:30PM by requenov.

i think you can say what you like now, all of you. you'll only know after the season is finished if it was a good change or not. for now, let's just see what happens.

you may be surprised.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: "If it ain't broke, F1, don't fix it." Look at last years championship. What was the worst thing about it? The points situation? My arse, in the last two years especially, we have been provided with fantastic finales. It's been the actual racing that has been the problem, and even recently this has started to pick up. The started @#$%& with F1 properly in 1998 and they haven't fixed it since. This year, finally they have learned their lesson that if you want to limit technology in F1 to make racing better, you have to properly limit it; As a consequence we have great predictions for the forthcoming season. Now, they've gone and needlessly messed with the championship system. F1 constantly feels the need to evolve every year, but what's the @#$%& point if you won't leave the basic elements, the cars, evolve properly? There really is no need for this!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2009 03:41AM by The Lopper.

incent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> An excellent point by some bloke called "Damon" on
> the F1Fanatic blog...
>
>
> If you’re in, say, 10th position with 15 laps to
> go - all you can do is fight for the best possible
> position which usually is far from winning, but at
> least gives you some points.
>
> Just look realistically. You don’t win races
> only because you want to. In most races, the
> standings after the second leg of pitstops look
> more or less like this:
>
> 1. Hamilton 40 laps completed
> 2. Massa + 16 sec
> 3. Kubica + 27 sec
> 4. Trulli + 43 sec
> 5. Raikonnen + 49 sec
> 6. Vettel + 1:05
> 7. Button + 1 lap
>
> Will Vettel suddenly make miracles and race for
> the win?? Nope.
> Will Kubica suddenly be 2 seconds/lap faster to
> catch Massa AND Hamilton and win the race?? Nope.
> He would love to - but that’s not possible. And
> the mere knowledge that he needs to win the race
> to have a chance to win the WDC won’t help him
> much on the track, or will it?
> Needing every single point he can score, he will
> still drive as fast as he can, so if Massa makes a
> mistake, he could get the 2nd place = 2 points
> more in the championship. But knowing that 2nd or
> 3rd place is not much of a difference, since
> neither is a win, he will not try hard.
>
> And now look at Raikonnen. He’s 6 secs behind
> Trulli.
> Would he push and try to catch Trulli and overtake
> him, knowing that he needs every single point in
> the WDC?
> Yes, he would.
> Will he push knowing that scoring one point more
> won’t give him anything? Not really.
> Perhaps he will, perhaps he won’t. The
> motivation will be a lot less.
> And if that’s one of the last races in the
> season, he might as well just quit the race.
>

You have to remember that they are racing for the team too. And as I understand the team that has most points will still win the team championship. I doubt team would be very happy with any driver that doesn't do his best to get maximum points for the team.

I think too that this should be only a positive change. Winner gets more reward, so there will be more racing for the win. Let's see how it works before we mock the new system.


My photo gallery: [viltzu86.deviantart.com]

oh well everyone pick a team, looks like the drivers title is dead/boring. When was the last time we saw a battle for a gp win on the last lap? Let alone a battle for the win on the last lap of the final race to decide a title? I seem to remember a little battle for the world title on the last lap, but the second place driver was barely even mentioned on this particular final lap... I dont even remember who finished 2nd. i do remember who finished 1st and 5th tho.....

.........and 6th, but thats beside the point, not a fan of this new rule. although i wouldn't mind being surprised and/or wrong on this occasion, for the good of the sport. we can all hope...

This is a stupid and unnecessary rule change - why not give the winner 12 points instead?

Had this been last year, Massa would have won - but don't forget, only because Hamilton was penalised at Belgium! Whatever the wrongs or rights of that penalty, it would have decided the championship - what an awful way for the year to finish!

It could happen again...



RedSam
Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
Due to the voting system in Germany, Governments are always made up of coalitions of different parties. At the last election, an almost unprecidented result saw the CDU/CSU (rough equivilant of the Conservatives) go into Government with the SPD (rough equivilant of Labour)

I am pleased to see the overwhelming disgust at this ridiculous rule. Didn't they conduct a survey over the medals system - the result being that people didn't want it? So what do they do? Just bring in a slight variation anyway, and stuff the fans.

Most of my thoughts about how this will impact NEGATIVELY on races (no matter what senile Bernie says!) have already been covered, but here's one more scenario.


Driver A and B are fighting for the championship and are 1st/2nd on a track where it is difficult to pass.

In the past we may have seen many laps of close racing while the driver in 2nd looks for any opportunity to get through.

Now, the driver in 2nd has nothing to lose, and would rather just stop the other guy getting a win. So at the first opportunity, he takes a lunge. The other guy definitely can't afford to lose 1st place, so he turns in. The cars come together, slide off into the gravel and both retire.

End of race, end of excitement.

Add to that the possibility that driver C in 3rd place has a reliable car that isn't so fast (hence he's many seconds behind in third). He hasn't got any wins, but has been consistent all season and has quite a lot of points.

Old rules: Drivers A and B would have more to lose by crashing out and giving C the extra points, so are more likely to battle for longer to avoid crashing out.

New rules: gifting driver C one win is irrelevant, so the early crash scenario above is even more likely.