The official three car F1 thread ***Approved by Bernie Ecclestone***

So there are serious doubts over Caterham or Maurssia surviving long enough to race at Austin and Sauber aren't exactly in rude health. These are probably not the only teams struggling with finances either.

The FIA have said that should the grid fall below twenty cars this season then they won't force any team to enter a third car, and some teams think that logistically three car teams would be difficult and impraticle to even implement for next year at this notice.

But it has to be said that there is a very real prospect of at least two teams disappearing in the off-season (if not before) and so three car teams have to be discussed since there is a condition that teams can be called upon to run a third call when the grid falls below twenty cars.

But this raises some questions;

Do all three cars score points?
With the risk of the mid grid being forced out of the points.. will the points be extended further down?
Do three cars share the same pit bay?

This would also make it possible for one team to lock out the podium and perhaps one good thing is at least more quality drivers could end up in competitive cars and hence more completion for the drivers championship.

But it would be a shame to loose those rare moments.. like Minardi finishing deep in the points once every few years :P

It would be kind of interesting to guess which drivers would end up in the third cars as well. Would some teams try a superstar line up and try combining the likes of Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton... or perhaps some teams could have the confidence to field their young development/reserve drivers.

Three car teams for 2015 could give Red Bull a reason to promote Vergne to RBR alongside Ricciardo and Kyvat and would mean that STR then has room for Verstappen, Sainz and Lynn.

I think if they have to run a third car they should have to run a young driver.

I wonder how impractical it would be to run the third as a year-old model (providing the regulations allow of course) or perhaps to supply another team with a year old car (Honda/Super Aguri). Or perhaps use a harder compound of rubber for a young driver.

It wouldn't feel right to me if a team locked out a podium (even if only 2 cars scored points). Granted we had that in the 50s and 60s (often manufacturer and private entries admittedly) but it's far, far removed from now, especially when you consider the reliability of cars made it an extremely rare occurrence then, whereas the likelihood of 1-2-3 finish of identical cars now would be far greater (especially if one team had a Mercedes/Red Bull/Brawn/Ferrari level of dominance).

Something must be done for next season though. A season with 16 car grids is unthinkable in a sport which generates so much money for the promoter (and let's face it, it's in their interests to have a bigger grid, so they ought to be the ones putting their hands in their pockets, not the teams).

marcl Wrote:
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> I think if they have to run a third car they
> should have to run a young driver.

Especially if they already run a young driver scheme. Many of the teams support talented drivers through the junior series but relatively few of them actually promote them into the F1 team. They just simply take their money or sponsor in exchange for being nominated 'reserve driver' and give them minimal testing.

I would definitely advocate stipulating that the third car of each team be specifically reserved for a 'development' driver. I mean if they've invested heavily in their career up to that point then why not give them a season racing in F1?

And if a team doesn't have driver development scheme, then isn't that an opportunity for GP2 to strike an arrangement with a F1 team to provide a guaranteed progression into F1 for the series champion (or the highest placed driver not supported by a F1 team). After all GP2 is supposed to be premier step up to F1. It's quite ridiculous that the champion often misses out because a rival he dominated is able to pay a team more money.

As much as I like to scoff at Helmet Marko, at least he does the most to promote drivers from the red bull scheme into F1. Other than Red Bull only McLaren and Williams occasionally take a punt on one of their own rookies. The other teams either take the highest bidder or in the case of Ferrari place a driver in a small team in exchange of overlooking the odd arrears in engine payments.

J i m Wrote:
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> Do all three cars score points?

That is the plan at the moment.

> With the risk of the mid grid being forced out of
> the points.. will the points be extended further
> down?

That is not on the table so far, which means that the midfield will be struggling for points, and thus also for a share of the money divided amongst teams. They would essentially be wholly dependant on the engine suppliers economical whims. Which leads us down the route of DTM.


> Do three cars share the same pit bay?

Most circuits have reconfigurable garages. It's shouldn't be a problem.

> Three car teams for 2015 could give Red Bull a
> reason to promote Vergne to RBR alongside
> Ricciardo and Kyvat and would mean that STR then
> has room for Verstappen, Sainz and Lynn.

It would also spell mayhem for the grid if they ever decided to pull out. That would be 6 cars lacking on the grid in one fell swoop. If just one more team pulled out in the same season, the sport is close to being wiped out.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2014 05:04PM by Morbid.

They need to do something to get new drivers on the grid as they keep missing out.

Kevin looks set to be replaced by Alonso, yet another young driver removed with no small team to go to.

I am actually in favour of three car teams or junior teams still run by the normal team but using year old cars or junior people.

Something has to be done to help younger drivers who win in GP2 and then do nothing, what is the point doing GP2 etc.

The three car rules are themselves currently secret, but from what limited information I have I understand that a third car would not score points, but would keep the place it finishes in, meaning if say a third Merc finished third then those points on offer would simply not be awarded at all, no fourth place finisher inheriting those points.

I also understand that a unanimous decision would be needed to implement third cars, with not all teams necessarily running them if the idea was given the go ahead, with what would effectively be a rotation system in use from year to year.

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Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

Caterham will miss the next 2 races as they look for a new buyer.

I don't think a third car is the answer, even for "rich" teams. It'd block new entrants, and I don't think we have any guarantees that a young driver will end up in the third car. I like the customer car idea more, but it's no good to me either. It's just... another part of F1 that teams design their own cars, and we would lose it. I really don't have a firm posture, because I don't like any idea



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps

Marussia have also pulled out of the American GP.

Ok, 18 cars, this is pretty boring, in 2005 BAR was banned with two race skips and this time, a financial crisis is here. Well I think we had to see what is going on.

EDIT: If we have 3-car team, it would be cool to see Red Bull going to fill the third car either Vergne or Kvyat, for Toro Rosso, I think it would be Sainz Jr.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2014 10:16PM by Bandon23.

Private teams running year-old ex-works cars would be a good idea, and that appeals to me more than three-car teams does. It would save on running costs compared to a team having its own new car and would probably open up a lot more seats to new drivers looking to land an F1 drive. Win win.

Not sure if Bernie would approve it though.

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EC83 Wrote:
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> Private teams running year-old ex-works cars would
> be a good idea, and that appeals to me more than
> three-car teams does. It would save on running
> costs compared to a team having its own new car
> and would probably open up a lot more seats to new
> drivers looking to land an F1 drive. Win win.
>
> Not sure if Bernie would approve it though.


Last year's cars are quite grippier than the current ones. So that would be a disadvantage for top teams. We're trying to even teams, not make them switch places heh



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps

Maybe. It wouldn't apply to future year-old cars though.

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There does seem to be a lot of confusion over how third cars are going to arranged. It already sounds like a complete mess as it's basically ramdom. I don't really like the sound of it at the moment.

I think it would be far more attractive if the regs were opened up to permit customer cars again. With with one condition though, that only cars of the previous season can be sold. Which would reduce the risk of one constructor having a exceptionally dominant 'four car team'.

The main problem is that a team like Force India spend money building their own car, now if a back end team buys a 2014 Merc for 2015 the chances are it will still be faster than a lot of the mid field next year so how is it fair on a team like Force India?

What about not requiring two cars per team? Maybe some current teams would revert to one car, but more teams would enter. It would still be a mess though, but it could produce a healthier grid.



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps

Marussia has gone into administration. Say your goodbyes.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

It's a shocking situation really. Two teams go into administration within days of each other, Sauber and Lotus both struggling too and possibly Force India on top of that. Really not good. What's struck me is the suddenness of it, even if there have been signs of it floating about for ages.

Two overriding feelings for me: What a sad ending for Marussia if they don't survive, and what a sad period for F1 itself, coming off the back of Jules' accident too.

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To be fair I've not seen anything else regarding that one Force India report - not even any rumours off the back of it. Looking at the Google translated article it doesn't indicate a dire situation to be fair, so hopefully it's just Mercedes being due payment as normal.

Edit: AMuS reported that Force India have paid Mercedes, so business as usual.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2014 10:01AM by gav.