The Official 2016 Formula One Season

I thought the Coanda effect was more to do with skin friction, no? So, as the skin friction slows the air down sufficiently to allow it to move with the curved surface, the air from the S-duct then trims the boundary layer to ensure it remains relatively laminar...that was my interpretation.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

It's the other way round actually. You need enough speed in the airflow to have it attached to the curving surface. Detachment of an airflow is typically caused by a loss of speed in the airflow (e.g. stalling of a wing at low speed). This in turn is due to both friction at the surface and the fact, that the curved surface frees up space for the air, creates a pressure change and effectively slows down the air. To counteract this a faster gas jet can be injected into the boundary layer. If this jet has a higher speed than the surrounding normal airflow two effects are important. First the friction at the surface is compensated for, or, to be more exact, the slowing of the air due to friction is delayed. Second an additional boundary layer is created at the interface of the jet and the normal airflow. The friction at the second boundary layer decelerates the jet but accelerates the outer normal flow compensating for the aforementioned slowing effect due to the pressure change. In effect this causes the airflow to stick to the surface a bit longer than it would usually do. The only downside is that one needs an additional turbine or exhaust gases to get the jet up to speed.

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used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld

n00binio Wrote:
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> It's the other way round actually. You need enough
> speed in the airflow to have it attached to the
> curving surface. Detachment of an airflow is
> typically caused by a loss of speed in the airflow
> (e.g. stalling of a wing at low speed). This in
> turn is due to both friction at the surface and
> the fact, that the curved surface frees up space
> for the air, creates a pressure change and
> effectively slows down the air. To counteract this
> a faster gas jet can be injected into the boundary
> layer. If this jet has a higher speed than the
> surrounding normal airflow two effects are
> important. First the friction at the surface is
> compensated for, or, to be more exact, the slowing
> of the air due to friction is delayed. Second an
> additional boundary layer is created at the
> interface of the jet and the normal airflow. The
> friction at the second boundary layer decelerates
> the jet but accelerates the outer normal flow
> compensating for the aforementioned slowing effect
> due to the pressure change. In effect this causes
> the airflow to stick to the surface a bit longer
> than it would usually do. The only downside is
> that one needs an additional turbine or exhaust
> gases to get the jet up to speed.

oh man, seems like I've still got a bit to learn...seriously though, thanks for taking the time to explain it all

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2016 01:22AM by Incident 2k9.

Your're welcome
To be fair I had to dig into the literature a bit to get it correct, it really is quite an obscure effect. Physics lectures at uni level don't cover it typically, not sure about aerospace engineering and the likes.

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used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld

yeah thanks

I love this forum after so many years the knowledge and passion of the users still makes me feel all warm and fuzzy

n00binio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your're welcome
> To be fair I had to dig into the literature a bit
> to get it correct, it really is quite an obscure
> effect. Physics lectures at uni level don't cover
> it typically, not sure about aerospace engineering
> and the likes.


I did motorsport engineering, so although we covered aero at uni it was largely based on CFD simulations, fluid mechanics, etc.

I'll be studying for my MSc beginning in September, so hopefully everything that I've pieced together through discussions like this and through reading will come in handy

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

Laton schrieb:
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> I love this forum after so many years the
> knowledge and passion of the users still makes me
> feel all warm and fuzzy

+1, well said

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used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld

2016 Sauber



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2016 05:02PM by madotter.

Laton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love this forum after so many years the
> knowledge and passion of the users still makes me
> feel all warm and fuzzy

Knowledge maybe, but I find there's a distinct lack of passion going on these days, as this forum is a sorry shadow of its former self. Evidence of this would be the fact I wasn't about here for the last 3 Grands Prix of last year(I'd lost interest for exactly this reason), I had been making the race threads, and no thread got made for any of said 3 races...

Plus a concerningly small number of posts in general.

I started posting regularly back in 2008, and I'd say that was the heyday of the forum(Certainly since I've been here anyway, those who were here earlier might disagree) and things have been on the slide ever since early 2009, when Bruninho and Retard 5 got banned for good. (Actually that happened 7 years ago this week.) The forums have gotten steadily quieter ever since. As much as those guys annoyed everyone, I'd rather have them back - and the storm of chaos they created - than the spiral of silence that's been slowly swallowing this place for the last few years.

Basically we need more of the old crew back - DaveEllis, Covfan, Mika, Gui, Sim, mikef1, Glyn, Cai etc - and a whole bunch of new users, as well as everyone we currently have, and a few n00bs too. (And as much as we tend to hate idiots when they're about, they at least get everyone else posting and provide entertainment, so they're actually a good thing.) Then the forums would be a whole bunch better. Whether that can ever happen or whether this slippery slope is set to continue, I dunno.

(PS - Not aimed at you specifically Laton, just in case you think I'm bashing your ear! Just taking the opportunity of the subject being brought up to add my two centssssss.)

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It is a shame that the forum is as quiet as it is, but that's been the case for a number of years now. Preseason has been really quiet here for at least half a decade now, with little or no posts for a week at a time, and this one seems no different.

I'd say the lack of interest last year was as much down to the state of F1 as it was this forum. Many are losing interest with the soul of the sport and their interest in others' opinions goes with it. That the championship was decided so early last season, together with the tedious races and lack of action - the interest just wasn't there. And I only post here if I've got something to add to what others have said.

On the rare occasion that there is a post in this subforum, it's usually of a quality you simply don't get on other F1 forums, where everyone is a fanboy, but here there is much more experience and maturity. Just look at the last few posts discussing aerodynamic effects.

As for race posts, I've stopped doing them. In every single one I did something scary or life threatening always seemed to happen, and I'm not comfortable having that much power. I'm not superstitious as such, but I'm still not going to do them.

I have been a member since 06 but have been reading it for far longer. I was just going to make a post on the subject that i feel im loosing interest in f1. It has just lost its appeal on so many different levels. I still read about it and get the news but i am not such a fanatic as what i was say 10 years ago. But as previously said, but in saying that I still check this forum near daily and even though it is news and comments are sparse they are mostly all thought through and just overall are more intelligent than on other sites.


__________________________________________________________________________

Well, Formula One has become more and more boring year after year, maybe the reason of the lack of interest in it ?

Last season I barely watched five races on TV and I can hardly remember which ones it was. Last time it happened to me was during the Schumacher dominance, not that I disliked the guy but knowing the winner far before the start of the race wasn't very thrilling.

Nowadays I find the regulations so stupid that I can't enjoy a race even if there is some good action in it, which tend to be rare to be honest. So, where would be the point to come here and say "yeah, that was yet another boring race this week end" ?

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You want boring??? I see why STR had to take some extra time for the livery this year, after all, it's a completely new desi... Nevermind...







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2016 12:25PM by madotter.

Yep, very unusual. lol

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madotter Wrote:
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> You want boring??? I see why STR had to take some
> extra time for the livery this year, after all,
> it's a completely new desi... Nevermind...
>





Car itself was barely finished before first test..

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

Future of F1





Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

Looks plain stupid.

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it here. If it's got a chance of saving a life, do it. It clearly doesn't impede vision so there's no reason not to.

Pre-2008 cars with their hundreds of winglets looked stupid, post-2008 cars looked equally bad, but we got used to them, just like we will this.

It wouldn't have saved Bianchi and it probably wouldn't have helped Massa, but it almost certainly would have prevented the deaths of Henry Surtees and Ayrton Senna (and perhaps Justin Wilson).

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it here. If
> it's got a chance of saving a life, do it. It
> clearly doesn't impede vision so there's no reason
> not to.
>
> Pre-2008 cars with their hundreds of winglets
> looked stupid, post-2008 cars looked equally bad,
> but we got used to them, just like we will this.
>
> It wouldn't have saved Bianchi and it probably
> wouldn't have helped Massa, but it almost
> certainly would have prevented the deaths of Henry
> Surtees and Ayrton Senna (and perhaps Justin
> Wilson).

Yep, completely agree.

The bulk of complaints seem to be "boohoo it looks rubbish"...who cares? Aesthetics aren't important here, this is a matter of safety.

"Why don't we have fighter jet canopies with a quick release?" is another comment I see often; first off, the FIA have deduced that it presents an issue with debris deflection, and could redirect objects into the crowds or into other critical areas. Secondly, there's the small matter of what if the driver's stuck upside down and the quick-release fails?

The halo solution seems like the best option at the moment, and if you don't like it I'm sure the FIA will let you present your own solution.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

Not very new but that was the future of F1 seen by Jean Graton in the late 70's.

The year was suposed to be 2000.

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