Formula One 2015 (and beyond)

Slash schrieb:
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> i watched the first race, and i've always
> questioned how were they going to do in the future
> to solve that problem.. and then found this news
> not long ago
>
> Titanium - Dioxide Batteries Will Last 20 Years
> and Recharge in 5 mins
>
> Apparently they are being developped and release
> in 2 years from now.. though i'm sure the final
> product won't be as promised, it at least seems
> that won't be a "problem" in the near future.

OT but that stuff is not going to happen anytime soon.
Only a webcomic, but pretty accurate imo. That battery is somewhere in the 5/10 year phase

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used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld

Call me naive, but I get the feeling F1 will survive this situation and things will ultimately get sorted out. Just a gut feeling I've got, nothing more. But we had crises in 2004 and 2009 which were arguably even more tense(In fact the atmosphere at the 2004 Brazilian GP was extreme), and they were forgotten pretty quickly. The FISA/FOCA dispute in the early 80s was much worse than this, and F1 survived that. F1 has had crises throughout its history, and it has survived all the rest, so for now I struggle to get overly worried about this threatening the sport itself.

It might seem ominous, but I feel that when push comes to shove, people will come to an agreement that at least guarantees the sport has a future. CVC will want the sport to stay alive - there's too much riding on it for them if F1 implodes. If we get to this time next year and no progress has been made anywhere and the situation has gotten much worse, then I'll accept that this time might be worse than others and F1 is actually in deep @#$%&. But for now there's still plenty of scope for common sense to ultimately prevail.

For now, if we need to have 3-car teams to keep numbers up for a couple of seasons or so while rules can be changed to reduce costs and new teams can be attracted, I don't see it being all that bad.

Meh, we'll have a better idea soon enough I guess.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2014 02:38AM by EC83.

EC83 Wrote:
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> CVC will want the sport to stay alive - there's
> too much riding on it for them if F1 implodes.

Correction. They want the sport to stay alive until they cash out. Once they have done that, they don't care what happens. So if they have put the sport on a death clock, through their actions, they don't care as long as they get to profit from it, before the clock runs out.

Slash Wrote:
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> And those facts you got from Kiesa seem quite
> frightening... everybody's been fooled for a few
> years now

To put it in perspective, Williams spent £70 million to win the 1996 WDC. You can't even run a team on that kind of money any more.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2014 04:23AM by Morbid.

Shocking news from Ferrari: Alonso is officially leaving.

Edit: oh and Vettel has been confirmed on a 3-year deal too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2014 11:38AM by gav.

ZOMG. The thing that surprised me was how long they took to announce it.

Now I just hope Fernando will be in a McLaren Honda next year, that would be awesome.


Morbid Wrote:
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> Correction. They want the sport to stay alive
> until they cash out.

Correction. There's no sign of them "cashing out" in the foreseeable future. Thus, they'll want the sport to stay alive - there's too much riding on it for them if F1 implodes...


All the best to Seb, he's really throwing himself in at the deep end. He's taking on an even tougher challenge than Schumacher did. MS went to Ferrari on the crest of a wave as the dominant driver of the last couple of seasons and the reigning Champ, and he joined a Ferrari team that was already in the process of a resurgence. Seb is joining a Ferrari team which has been in decline for the last decade and which is now a clusterf*ck. He's also coming off the back of a disappointing season in which he's been pwned by his teammate, and that must have a psychological effect somewhere.
If he can drag Ferrari back to the front and start winning titles for them, it'll be an even greater achievement than what MS managed IMO.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2015 04:18AM by EC83.

There was a cracking interview with Ron Dennis towards the end of FP3 on the BBC.

It all sounded very good news for McLaren fans.

In summary:

[*]The update package they were considering using in the GP will be used in the test instead (they've only evaluated the new front wing so far I think).

[*]McLaren desperately wanted a works engine so as to have control over the software and modes.

[*]That it was clear they had to change from the moment Mercedes bought out Brawn GP.

[*]That if "any team saw the R&D facilities that had been built for this project I'm quite sure that they'd feel nervous, and they should, because we're going to be very strong".

[*]That the test next week is mainly to evaluate software on the engine side, as well as confirming that the (aero) technical direction that they're moving is is correct (what Peter Prodromou has been working on).

[*]That they'll be evaluating two engines in the test, but it wasn't clear if that means Mercedes and Honda, or two different Honda specifications.

[*]That the engine they're using in the test is an intermediate spec designed for this car, not what they'll be using next year.

[*]That "Fernando is without a drive... as far as any announcements".

[*]He (Dennis) "has a heart, and it doesn't give me any pleasure at all to stress out any driver... and certainly not our current drivers... but the music hasn't stopped, and I mean that there are a range of things that can happen tomorrow that certainly influence the decisions that have to be taken". I think he meant that regarding the second seat, as opposed to anticipating some fallout at Mercedes and perhaps snatching Hamilton back, but it wasn't clear.

[*]That it's down to current race drivers as they're analysing their drivers race performances, "and everyone else's race performances as well" - Vandoorne isn't being considered at this time.

I've uploaded the audio here for those who can't watch the BBC: https://www.dropbox.com/s/33mbmw6ahf7lwf4/Dennis%20FP3%20BBC%20interview.mp3?dl=0. It's a good listen.

So... McLaren had their meeting, and there is still no decision on driver line up. Geez, they sure are taking their sweet time. Can't help but think that it is really starting to smart on both drivers.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Hi Morbid,

I agree with you, and one does not have to be a genius to know that there is a split of opinions within McLaren Honda, and probably the split is among RonDennis/Eric Boullier and Honda.

People must give one thing to Ron though; when he returned to McLaren he said that he wants to have the best drivers in the car. He has Alonso (supposedly). Moreover, McLaren definitely strengthened up in the later part of the season and were the third fastest team very often. Thus, I have a feeling of trust that RD will make sure the correct decision is taken.

Any ideas when the next board meeting is, or when the next discussion on driver line up at McLaren will occur?

It's starting to sound like Dennis wants Button but the board (who are surely more interested in money?) want the cheaper option.

Either way, this could take forever to decide. Someone is going to have to back down.

gav Wrote:
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> It's starting to sound like Dennis wants Button
> but the board (who are surely more interested in
> money?) want the cheaper option.

I can resoundly deny that. Dennis is firmly behind Magnusson. He even toured Denmark a few days ago to drum up sponsors for him. If anything, it is the other way around, and Ron Dennis just doesn't have the weight to push his will through.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

mitadumapaga Wrote:
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> Hi Morbid,
>
> I agree with you, and one does not have to be a
> genius to know that there is a split of opinions
> within McLaren Honda, and probably the split is
> among RonDennis/Eric Boullier and Honda.

That seems very likely. And that the other members of the board are looking at profitability, which is why sponsorship (KM)/ pay cut (JB) has played such an important role for weeks now.

> People must give one thing to Ron though; when he
> returned to McLaren he said that he wants to have
> the best drivers in the car. He has Alonso
> (supposedly).

I am still very unsure of the wisdom of taking Alonso in. I would have preferred the existing line-up for a host of different reasons.

> Moreover, McLaren definitely
> strengthened up in the later part of the season
> and were the third fastest team very often. Thus,
> I have a feeling of trust that RD will make sure
> the correct decision is taken.

I dunno. In the earlier years he had control of the company through ownership. If he had the clout to get his way, we would have a decision by now. I don't know if he was close, or if he was on the minority side, and he managed to kick the ball to corner to stall for time. I have no details of the flow of the meeting.

> Any ideas when the next board meeting is, or when
> the next discussion on driver line up at McLaren
> will occur?

In about 1,5 weeks as far as I understand.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2014 08:25PM by Morbid.

I'd seen the reports he was scouting Denmark, but will investors want a young gun for probably less than £1,000,000 or a WDC at probably £10,000,000+? They've already paid for the widely regarded best driver around, so do they feel they need another WDC at 10x the price of a youngster who might do just as well as a rear gunner in their eyes?

The general consensus is that Dennis wants Magnussen as he likes to bring through a young hotshot. But Magnussen isn't his hotshot, he's Whitmarsh's. Perhaps Dennis is happy to go with Magnussen, but only if he brings a decent cheque with him? In my head, the Dennis & Magnussen theory just isn't working right now.

There's certainly an interesting power struggle going on at McLaren and it's quickly turning into an embarrassment which benefits neither driver. McLaren need to be showing strength and solidarity in what is meant to be the start of an upswing for them... they're showing neither at the moment.

gav Wrote:
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> I'd seen the reports he was scouting Denmark, but
> will investors want a young gun for probably less
> than £1,000,000 or a WDC at probably
> £10,000,000+? They've already paid for the
> widely regarded best driver around, so do they
> feel they need another WDC at 10x the price of a
> youngster who might do just as well as a rear
> gunner in their eyes?

We can be damn sure, that those figures have been discussed, even though I don't think those you present here are entirely accurate. The factor is more like x15-20, than x10. On the other hand, you could also argue, and I am sure it was done at that meeting, that Button was instrumental in defeating Force India, thus netting a substantial windfall of chunk change for the team.

> The general consensus is that Dennis wants
> Magnussen as he likes to bring through a young
> hotshot. But Magnussen isn't his hotshot, he's
> Whitmarsh's. Perhaps Dennis is happy to go with
> Magnussen, but only if he brings a decent cheque
> with him? In my head, the Dennis & Magnussen
> theory just isn't working right now.

Why would Ron Dennis take time out from his busy schedule to personally drum up sponsorship for KM if he isn't his choice? That doesn't make any sense at all. I can tell you this: there was an article about Lego declining to be a sponsor, which coincided with RD's visit. This is odd indeed. I have NEVER seen Lego publically decline something like that. I have actually met their bosses during a time of crisis, and they know the value of discretion, and they are brand conscious like crazy. So why would they do that? If you look at the reasons given, they said "not the right match", and as I read it, it was in terms of being affiliated with McLaren. So... what does that mean? Who are they talking to?

IMHO, they are talking to Shell, with whom they have a big partnership, who also happen to sponsor Ferrari. There have been very vocal protests against Lego partnering with Shell, due to what Shell are doing elsewhere in the world. At a time where they stuck with Shell, even though they are doing the most crazy things to avoid gender brand damage due to stereotypical placements of product types in stores and small design features on their tiniest of pieces, it is safe to say, that they took RD's visit very seriously and couldn't hide it from Shell, but at the same time want to protect their partnership now that they couldn't strike a deal with McLaren.

So why would RD walk into a heavy situation like that, if it was just another generic attempt to drum up sponsors... it doesn't make any sense. The only way the Lego reaction fits, is if it is paddock knowledge, that RD wants KM.

> There's certainly an interesting power struggle
> going on at McLaren and it's quickly turning into
> an embarrassment which benefits neither driver.

It is not only an embarrassment, it is spilling over into power struggles outside of the corporate structure. It seems very likely that Alonso has put his weight behind Button. Allegedly, there was a Santander banner commercial on some Santander ATMs this morning featuring Button, wearing the McLaren Mercedes driver suit. Now, McLaren has done everything they can to dismantle EVERYTHING related to Mercedes just a few minutes after the Abu Dhabi GP was over. So how does Button suddenly appear in the Mercedes-sponsored driver suit for Santander? It's not like McLaren couldn't photoshop a Honda logo onto the suit. I can only see that as a move generated by Alonso, which is something I have honestly never seen before.

> McLaren need to be showing strength and solidarity
> in what is meant to be the start of an upswing for
> them... they're showing neither at the moment.

More to the point, if the power structure in the team is such, that they cannot make decisions about such important matters as driver line up, and they end up in management gridlock, how are they going to generate the necessary swiftness and decisiveness of leadership up to and during the 2015 campaign, that is required to be a front runner? This looks very much like a big problem in the making. During a campaign, it is often better to make a quick but wrong decision, than it is NOT to make a decision. I am beginning to think, that McLaren management structure is the true weak spot of the new team.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2014 09:06PM by Morbid.

Quote
Morbid
We can be damn sure, that those figures have been discussed, even though I don't think those you present here are entirely accurate. The factor is more like x15-20, than x10. On the other hand, you could also argue, and I am sure it was done at that meeting, that Button was instrumental in defeating Force India, thus netting a substantial windfall of chunk change for the team.

I've no idea, I plucked the number out of thin air. Complete guess work. I've not seen any numbers, and frankly, how would anyone know anyway?

Quote
Morbid
Why would Ron Dennis take time out from his busy schedule to personally drum up sponsorship for KM if he isn't his choice?

In the same way as it almost certainly wouldn't be Dennis against an blank wall in favour of Button. There's got to be some give and take. Perhaps this was a message - if Magnussesn can't bring in money with him, then he won't have any support. Possibly similar to any opposition to Magnussen, where if Button doesn't accept a pay cut, it weakens their case.


Regarding Button's Santander advert any deal with Santander will likely last until December 31.

gav Wrote:
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> I've no idea, I plucked the number out of thin
> air. Complete guess work. I've not seen any
> numbers, and frankly, how would anyone know
> anyway?

Nobody outside of the loop can know for certain, but there are some very good estimates out there, and several of them put those kind of figures on the table.

> In the same way as it almost certainly wouldn't be
> Dennis against an blank wall in favour of Button.

I am not sure what this means, or what you are trying to say. If something goes awry later in this post, it probably stems from my inability to decipher this properly.

> There's got to be some give and take.

I don't see why.

> Perhaps
> this was a message - if Magnussesn can't bring in
> money with him, then he won't have any support.

I think the correct phrase would be "enough support", because support he certainly has. He is not a pay driver, McLaren brought him up through the junior series and have invested heavily in him for years (and thus, he was not "Whitmarsh's choice". It started long before his public backing last year), and stands to get a decent pay raise as well, IF the contract is signed.

> Possibly similar to any opposition to Magnussen,
> where if Button doesn't accept a pay cut, it
> weakens their case.

As I think I have said repeatedly for weeks now?

> Regarding Button's Santander advert any deal with
> Santander will likely last until December 31.

I also don't think that it is a long term thing. But it seems to me, that you fail to grasp the content right in front of you. While Santander are no strangers to McLaren, they were partners with Ferrari for 2014. Arguably, they go where Alonso goes. So that they pop up for McLaren for 2015 would not be a surprise. That they would pop up for McLaren Honda is not a surprise either. That they would use Alonso in those adverts is no surprise either. But they popped up like this is a surprise. There has been no announcement that links either Santander nor Alonso to McLaren, and they certainly don't have affiliation with McLaren-Mercedes, which doesn't even exist any more. While Button probably has constraints as well as freedoms on what he can personally sponsor outside of the outfit, appearing in a drivers suit makes a link to McLaren, which entails two things: 1) it makes it official McLaren business because it is their brand, and it goes against their current branding strategy because it does not showcase Honda, and 2) Button gets linked to the next F1 sponsorship that Santander are currently planning, which we all know is Alonso at McLaren. This means, there is a push from Santander to have Button, which I doubt is of their own invention.

Which tells me, that there has been no announcement about Santander, because they are waiting on Alonso's contract to be signed. And it is there on the table, unsigned, with just 2 points of contention. 1) Duration of the contract, which has been reported as a problem area for a long time now, McLaren wanting long term strategic commitments, and Alonso wants to hedge his bets, so he doesn't spend a 3rd long stint with a team that doesn't bring enough yeast to the bake-off. 2) That he wants Button as his team mate, and that he is working the levers at his disposal, outside of the McLaren structure to add further pressure.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2014 07:21PM by Morbid.

Morbid what are you talking about, Santander have sponsored Button and Mclaren for years. Button and Magnusson have had a huge Santander logo across their chest all season. Your post seems to suggest this is a new partnership or something, or have I missed your point?

airefresco Wrote:
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> Morbid what are you talking about, Santander have
> sponsored Button and Mclaren for years. Button
> and Magnusson have had a huge Santander logo
> across their chest all season. Your post seems to
> suggest this is a new partnership or something, or
> have I missed your point?

Nah, it seems more likely that I have missed something. I checked McLaren's homepage for partnerships the other day, when Coulthard made the statement, that Button was threatened up to the Dec. 4th meeting, because McLaren already had so many Danish sponsors. I didn't find a single one, and while I was there I checked out the other partners listed, and noted the oddity that Santander was missing. Upon double-checking now, they ARE listed... I doubt they have changed anything, so I guess I missed it somehow.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

So.... McLaren have called for a press conference tomorrow. Fingers crossed for a JB/KM lineup for '15.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

All kind of rumours are about at the moment, even some suggesting the hold up is Alonso and his get-out clauses if the Honda turns out to be a dudd.

I'm hoping they've signed Alonso and Jenson personally. Certainly the protracted delay in the line-up announcement fits with an Alonso signing, it seems like too much of a coincidence to me anyway.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2014 08:10PM by EC83.