2013 Malaysian GP ***HERE BE SPOILERS***

DJSKYLINE Wrote:
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> Disgusting behavior by Vettel.

he's just a spoiled little kid.. we've all knew...... triple champ and still behaves like a little baby.

Webber should know better by now not to take a "team win" for granted thou... i hope he doesn't loose his form

gav Wrote:
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> Loving Mark speaking his mind though. And the
> middle finger. :D


Did he salute Vettel? When? I need to see this

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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]

[youtu.be]



Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2013 07:43PM by IWE.

Yup, all the way down to the hairpin in sector 2. :D

flat tyre Wrote:
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> That was like watching an episode of Eastenders!
> Handbags at dawn all round!
>
> Thoroughly enjoyed it, but at the same time felt
> thoroughly miserable. "I'm enjoying it because I
> hate it so much", like a pantomime villain.
>
> Maybe I have double standards, but I felt that the
> finishing order should have been:
>
> 1. Mark
> 2. Seb
> 3. Nico
> 4. Lewis
>
> I normally like it when I see a driver ignore team
> orders and just RACE, but today I couldn't help
> but not like the result. It was almost like Vettel
> expected the team to let him past, but when he
> wasn't allowed to he got stroppy. But, he was very
> gracious in the post-race interviews and it was
> nice to see him hold his hands up and say "I
> messed up, sorry." It was also refreshing to see
> the Red Bull team having a moan at Vettel on the
> team radio, even Christian Horner.
>
> BUT, I do think Ross Brawn should have let Nico
> through. Maybe I'm biased, because I'm a massive
> fan of Rosberg (also like Hamilton, too, though).
> But in my eyes the team should have ordered Lewis
> to let Nico past. No wonder Lewis was ahead if
> they under-fuelled him. Rosberg had the better
> overall pace and more fuel, so common sense should
> mean that he gets the podium instead.
>
> At the end of the day, I like to see drivers stay
> respectful (sorry Red Bull), but I also like to
> see team orders make sense (sorry Mercedes).


+1 Could not put it better .... totally agree.


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group

I would love it if Seb got all the way to the season finale needing Webbers help.

Being Webbers (likely) last year with Red Bull, preventing in whatever way he can as his token goodbye.

Imagine gifting it to Alonso and all three ending on the podium!? Bahaha!


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

Loving the team orders situations with RedBull and Mercedes, added juicy bits to an otherwise relatively dull race. The Seb/Mark situation was crazy, and great viewing! Shame Mark lost out though - for the umpteenth time, as pointed out already. I think it has the potential to blow up big time this season - Mark will increasingly feel he's got nothing to lose.
The Lewis/Nico situation seemed a bit more restrained.

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i really wonder what the opinions on the vettel/webber incident would have been if the roles were reversed (vettel doing what webber did and vice versa). not to mention something similar between barrichello (in vettels place) and schumacher (instead of webber).

(just playing devil's advocate here, vettel should have stayed behind webber. it's worth a thought nontheless)

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used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld

Wasn't the rule for team orders introduced purely in the event of deciding a championship? ie, later in the season?

In which case, Red Bull should NOT have been deploying orders (which they weren't strictly, just toning down their pace).

Vettel only actually broke a 'gentlemans agreement' with the team and Webber. But as small as it is, that's massive respect lost and trust down the pan.

Vettel didn't do anything wrong by the rulebook, infact he was the only one really playing by it if you see it.

But he shat on his team. Big time.

It's interest to note that Webber would be joint leading the championship had this not happened.

Drivers' Championship

Pos. Driver Points
1. Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull 40
2. Kimi Räikkönen - Lotus 31
3. Mark Webber - Red Bull 26
4. Lewis Hamilton - Mercedes 25
5. Felipe Massa - Ferrari 22
6. Fernando Alonso - Ferrari 18


Pos. Driver Points
1. Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull 33
2. Mark Webber - Red Bull 33
3. Kimi Räikkönen - Lotus 31
4. Lewis Hamilton - Mercedes 25
5. Felipe Massa - Ferrari 22
6. Fernando Alonso - Ferrari 18


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

danm Wrote:
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> I would love it if Seb got all the way to the
> season finale needing Webbers help.
>
> Being Webbers (likely) last year with Red Bull,
> preventing in whatever way he can as his token
> goodbye.
>
> Imagine gifting it to Alonso and all three ending
> on the podium!? Bahaha!

Webber tried his best last year to gift it to Alonso

Webber also went for a rather silly swoop past Vettel just past the finishing line.




gav Wrote:
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> The only thing that riled me was that Mark always
> comes off worse in these Red Bull shenanigans.
>
> Defends against Vettel in Turkey - Red Bull say he
> should have given more space.
> Vettel's front wing breaks in Silverstone, so
> Webber has his taken from him.
> Ordered to stay behind at Silverstone the
> following year (which he does, when he could have
> forced the issue).
> Then today.
>
> I did find it interesting in the BBC interview
> with Horner that this "goes back to Brazil and
> before"... was Seb unhappy that Mark squeezed him
> at the start?

It might be more the culture that if Mark can ignore team considerations, such as his behaviour at Brazil 2012 and Silverstone 2011 for example, why should Seb thinks he has to obey them all.

I think your view of Mark at Silverstone 2011 is a bit lenient. Webber tried his best to get past, he just couldn't I think! The exact quote was; "Of course I ignored the team as I want to try and get another place."

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X (@ed24f1)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2013 12:09AM by SchueyFan.

n00binio Wrote:
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> i really wonder what the opinions on the
> vettel/webber incident would have been if the
> roles were reversed (vettel doing what webber did
> and vice versa). not to mention something similar
> between barrichello (in vettels place) and
> schumacher (instead of webber).
>
> (just playing devil's advocate here, vettel should
> have stayed behind webber. it's worth a thought
> nontheless)

I think you make a very good point. I myself got reminded of Hungary 2010 when I saw the footage from onboard Vettel's car.
The other incident it made me think of was Portugal 1988.

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Unlike Barrichello-Schumacher though, the gap didn't really close after the other driver committed to it - it was relatively constant, and Vettel chose to drive into it.

Here it is.

I never respected Rubens for giving in to Ferrari at points, so with regards to Vettel overtaking Webber (and ONLY that part!) then fair play Vettel. IMO he was never given a real chance at victory anyway. I felt RBR were so caught up in tyre scares that whoever lead from even the first stop would win. Webber got the jump thanks to Vettels 1 lap too early stop and from then on Vettel was driving to a delta IIRC???

As for saying on TV that Vettel knew of no plan... I don't believe and 100% think he lied. In that respect the guy is a douche. But as a racer?? Well, he is one and for racing I respect him, but for lying, no.

If he came out and said, "this is a motor race, I wanted to race so I disregarded the team's view" then he would instantly be a hero IMO. Instead, I feel he lied.


Let's not forget, Webber tried the same in Silverstone did he not? But failed? I might need correcting on that one though.

As for Mercedes, huge, HUGE disrespect for Brawn. Nico looked quicker ALL weekend, he was sent out there to finish 4th. You only need to look at Lewis racing Button (as team mates) to know Lewis respects his team mates. Nico too, is IMO one of the most considerate side by side racers on the grid.

Brawn and Horner both spewed out the same bullsh1t. "Uncomfortable position"

F1 IS AN UNCOMFORTABLE SPORT! If you don't like it, GET OUT. The moment Horner spewed that out was the moment I started to plan his assassination in my head. F1 is a risky business. If he is so scared about the racing, about the tyres then GTFO or build a better car.

Still, big up to Webber for speaking his mind, big up for Vettel for racing, and big up to Lewis and Nico for handling it so much better.

for Horner, Vettel lying (IMO) and Brawn.

Also, lets not be silly here. I 100% believe Alonso, AND Lewis would have done the same. You don't win championships by finishing 2nd.

Also, it might seem a contradictory post so sorry, it makes sense in my head :p

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Oh, and Button was awesome :D!!!

Surely he would have challenged the mercs. Whether he beat them or not is another matter but that is progress!

And Jules Bianchi? What an awesome driver!!

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

I've got a lot of time for Nico in all that, though. He didn't disobey team orders, but he didn't just come off the gas and leave Lewis to it.

I'm not gonna go on about the whole team order situation. I've got my own opinion on it, but I don't feel I need to share it. What I will say is that I was very impressed with the trio of Button, Grosjean and Bianchi. Button was looking good until his pitstop, Grosjean raced very well and Bianchi is just continuing to punch above his weight. I've said it before, and I'll say it again here; Razia not paying up was the best thing that's happened to Marussia.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

while i'm not a vettel fan, i have respect for him deliberately disobeying team orders to take the win. but i lose respect for him for him lying about it though. i don't like this false sadness that both he and Lewis IMO displayed. you're racing drivers who are supposed to be ruthless and want to win every point or position. it looks very pussy-like of them to both say their teammate should be in their position. grow some balls, men!

Lewis, if you wanted Nico to have 3rd, you should have pulled over and let him safely by. and then been man enough to say to Ross et al that Nico was faster so he deserved it.

Seb, you wanted to win, you ignored the orders to drop the pace, so just admit it, Red Bull are not going to sack you for god's sake! don't cry about it and say "I made a mistake and i wish Mark had won blah blah blah", you're still going home with 25 points so your apology means sh!t!

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

Muks_C Wrote:
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> while i'm not a vettel fan, i have respect for him
> deliberately disobeying team orders to take the
> win. but i lose respect for him for him lying
> about it though. i don't like this false sadness
> that both he and Lewis IMO displayed. you're
> racing drivers who are supposed to be ruthless and
> want to win every point or position. it looks very
> pussy-like of them to both say their teammate
> should be in their position. grow some balls,
> men!
>
> Lewis, if you wanted Nico to have 3rd, you should
> have pulled over and let him safely by. and then
> been man enough to say to Ross et al that Nico was
> faster so he deserved it.
>
> Seb, you wanted to win, you ignored the orders to
> drop the pace, so just admit it, Red Bull are not
> going to sack you for god's sake! don't cry about
> it and say "I made a mistake and i wish Mark had
> won blah blah blah", you're still going home with
> 25 points so your apology means sh!t!

Thats what I wanted to say, you just said it much better :D!

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Yes, what a fine racer Vettel is, mugging a teammate who'd turned the engine down! I can't deal with all this 'true champion' lark. Anyone who buys into it is likely to be saying soon that a 'true champion' would have had a bit of foresight when it comes to the consequences of putting one over on your teammate in such a brutal way.

why didnt mark try to catch vettel ????

if he hadnt been able to keep up with him and lost 10 sec. for 10 laps, then he shouldnt play it as if he is the victim.

Quote
mitadumapaga
why didnt mark try to catch vettel ????

He was probably so furious that driving well was probably not at the top of his list. He was probably spitting unpleasantries into the radio. Oh to have the Red Bull pit feed for the 2nd half of the race.

He had Vettel well under control up until the engines were turned down.