50 races Button vs Hamilton

well, after 50 races at mclaren, Button finally got a pole position, while hamilton has had so many more. the interesting think but, i have calculated that the amount of points the 2 drivers have scored is lewis 584 to jenson 583 in the 50 races. just 1 point difference. Make what you want of it, just an interesting stat, to me it shows hamilton is fast in qualifying, but button is better in race speed, 50 races into their partnership. no one expected button to keep up with hamilton from the start. anotherway you can look at at, and how i do, is hamilton came out firing as such a talent in 2007, but has not fullfilled his 'superstar' potential he developed at the start of his career. lewis has ballsed-up 2 chapionships 2007 and 2010, and did so in 2008 aswell until he got lucky in the last 10 seconds. this year he hasnt shined like a superstar either. Button on the otherhand is never considered a superstar, but he is considered a a top level driver, he is fullfilling his expected potential.

That is a very interesting stat - I'm much more a fan of Jenson than Lewis, but I would've still suspected Lewis to be well ahead on total points.

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I think u need to watch the races and not just look at stats.

This year Lewis has out paced Button and made him look stupid at times. Button gets the best setup and wins one race and people slag off Lewis again. In Hungry where was Lewis and where was Button?

Lewis we all know last season was bad, very bad but this year I do not agree at all. He has been ahead in all but 3 or 4 races if I recall?

Mclaren have ruined more races this year for Lewis than button due to the pit stops.

And going by whats been said Lewis was forced to run high down force at Spa as why else would he have tweeted like he did?

We all know who Martin likes at Mclaren and its not Lewis.

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think u need to watch the races and not just
> look at stats.
>
> This year Lewis has out paced Button and made him
> look stupid at times. Button gets the best setup
> and wins one race and people slag off Lewis again.
> In Hungry where was Lewis and where was Button?
>
> Lewis we all know last season was bad, very bad
> but this year I do not agree at all. He has been
> ahead in all but 3 or 4 races if I recall?
>
> Mclaren have ruined more races this year for Lewis
> than button due to the pit stops.
>
> And going by whats been said Lewis was forced to
> run high down force at Spa as why else would he
> have tweeted like he did?
>
> We all know who Martin likes at Mclaren and its
> not Lewis.


Probably because Button fits McLaren's corporate image and is much less hassle-free. It's not Button that's delaying on signing a new contract, and it's not Button that posts his telemetry on Twitter when he's outqualified.

I don't believe Hamilton was forced to run with more downforce, the ball was firmly in his and his engineers' court. They made that decision as far as I know.

I think Hamilton's problems don't necessarily lie with himself. They lie with the people he surrounds himself with. Be with positive people, and you become positive yourself. He needs to ditch Nicole, and let Didier Coton help him out more. He's managed Hakkinen's and Olivier Panis' affairs, so he knows the ropes.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

Marcl, yes button has had a form slump. and i know hamilton has been faster, but that point statistic just shows that speed is not everything, you have to be consistent too (for istance, hamilton cosistenly has a run of incidents in each season at races he should be winning), and also in this modern f1, unlike say 10 years ago, tyre care is more vital. So i pointed out, 2 completely different drivers, same result for the team.

Hamiltons tweets were just stupid, like many of the other stupid things he does like saying he gets penalties because he is black. when things dont go his way, he becomes a big sook, and does not show respect for his team. from his own words it was a joint decision with him and his team, so why do something so immature? it was innapropriate, and things like that do turn members of your team against you. he is not above the team.

its funny people get angry at his team for a few pit stop mistakes, but he has cost the team many more times, then they have him. their great pitstops also helped him win in hungary.

If hamilton lived up to his promise, i think the tally would be about 800-500 in favour of lewis.

also, i notice every year, hamilton says he has matured, in a better frame of mind, learnt from his mistakes etc, is stronger and hungrier etc etc. but nothing changes. i dont think change of management will help him, maybe change of personality.

Button's view on the twitter debacle: [en.espnf1.com]

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

Incident 2k9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't believe Hamilton was forced to run with
> more downforce, the ball was firmly in his and his
> engineers' court. They made that decision as far
> as I know.

First you believe. Then you know. Sounds like you are pulling things out of your arse.

What do you actually know about internal strategy and setup discussions at Macca?

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Morbid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Incident 2k9 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't believe Hamilton was forced to run with
> > more downforce, the ball was firmly in his and
> his
> > engineers' court. They made that decision as
> far
> > as I know.
>
> First you believe. Then you know. Sounds like you
> are pulling things out of your arse.
>
> What do you actually know about internal strategy
> and setup discussions at Macca?

As much as you do about respecting people's opinions...

I read the news. I then draw my own conclusions, and thus I have concluded that Hamilton elected to run with that wing, most likely with the intent to gain some time in the corners. Sorry for 'pulling things out of my arse', but at least I'm trying to offer a point of view on the situation (backed up with a news article).

No need to be rude, pal.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2012 02:50PM by Incident 2k9.

Incident 2k9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Morbid Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> As much as you do about respecting people's
> opinions...

What are you talking about?!?

If you know nothing, then I am disrespectful? If you know a lot, then I am respectful? This doesn't even make sense...

As I thought, you know nothing. It is the journalist that writes, that it was Hamiltons choice to run with more wing, and he has no reference, statement or quote to back it up.

Facts > Opinion.

Opinion is not sacred. If you don't have facts, then don't conclude, based on what you "know". That way, you won't be called out on your (lack of) knowledge.

And am not your pal, buddy...

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

I could so easily say that Alonso was not forced to run with certain setups when he was at mclaren then even though he said he was .

I really hope Lewis leaves Mclaren tbh, never thought I would say this. They are my fav team but I don't like it when they force a setup on a driver, Martin even said on Saturday they split their bets and he said that live on sky. Then after quali he said Lewis was ok with it and chose it. Sorry but if he had made that choice why be so angry and post the stats on twitter?

Yes Lewis was wrong to tweet but its not the 1st time this has happened.

Quote
marcl
Sorry but if he had made that choice why be so angry and post the stats on twitter?

Sorry, but I can actually believe that Lewis can be so desperate to save face that he was desperate to show the only reason Button was fastest was due to the set up. I'm not saying he is that vain, but I can believe it.

Let's face it, he isn't the most stable character, is he?

Morbid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Incident 2k9 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Morbid Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > As much as you do about respecting people's
> > opinions...
>
> What are you talking about?!?
>
> If you know nothing, then I am disrespectful? If
> you know a lot, then I am respectful? This doesn't
> even make sense...
>
> As I thought, you know nothing. It is the
> journalist that writes, that it was Hamiltons
> choice to run with more wing, and he has no
> reference, statement or quote to back it up.
>
> Facts > Opinion.
>
> Opinion is not sacred. If you don't have facts,
> then don't conclude, based on what you "know".
> That way, you won't be called out on your (lack
> of) knowledge.
>
> And am not your pal, buddy...


Not really sure what's going on here now...I think a small throwaway comment I made has been misinterpreted.

And I apologise for being an arse...

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2012 11:02PM by Incident 2k9.

If I may make a small comment, not leaning one way or the other into the argument....

Morbid, Incident2k9 wrote "as far as I know." This is an expression, I don't know if you're familiar with it or not. It does not mean the preceding statement is fact. It is actually the opposite, it's usually added on to say "I'm not really sure about that".

Having said all that, if you were aware it's an expression and your argument still stands, then I've nothing further to add!

Mika you arse.

1) English is my first written language. In conversation no english speaking person will have trouble understanding me. You know better than this. You know as well as me, that several users here have been genuinely surprised, that I am not from a country where english is the main language.

2) Use your education man. I know it's good. It's an idiom.

[idioms.thefreedictionary.com]

Meaning:

- so far as anyone knows
- to the best of one's knowledge

So it does mean that the preceding statement is based on knowledge. It states a caveat to the limitation of said knowledge, by the individual or group making the statement. Knowledge is derived from fact.

Hence, it invovles facts.

And what was it in your post, that was so pertinent to this thread, that you could not have said the same in a pm?

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2012 04:05PM by Morbid.

Righto mate. 

Probably no need to call me an arse. Not really surprising because you've been intolerable around these parts lately. 

This wasn't PM'd because it's a discussion forum. A public one. It's why we're all all here. 

Yes, here we go... the good old Mika trolling!

Yeah, I thought you were up to your good old mind games again

Don't ever change man! The world needs laughter!

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Well this thread has gone to pot...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]

Sounds like lewis is off to Merc next year with Paul going to Mclaren

These Lewis stories seem a little far fetched. One comment from Eddie Jordan and now they are all over the web.

Can't see why Lewis would even want to leave Mclaren.

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Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

Nevvvver going to happen.

If there's any truth at all, then it'll just be a bargaining tool for extracting more money from McLaren in his negotiations, or keeping the trophies for himself rather than in McLaren's rather large sideboard.