What racing should be like

Alan Gows' a bellend. Managed to kill BTCC with stupid cars and encouraging crap driving standards.

I like whats happening in WTCC, but for the wrong reasons. SEAT complained the standing starts gave the RWD BMWs an advantage, so now one of the races is rolling starts. They complained the BMWs have a weight advantage, so they added weight. The BMWs also run an H-pattern box whilst the SEATs have the standard sequential. And despite this, BMW are still tanking them. Its hilarious.

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i find that hilarious as well:P havent the seats been allowed to use a higher compression engine as well now?


i found teh rolling start thing laughable tbh. teh BMWs given a weight break in exchange for agreeing to rolling starts, and after the first race the rules are changed so BMW have to carry more weight than if they hadnt agreed to rolling starts.

and its clear (to me) its not the cae of BMW being to good, coz the Chevy's seem to eb doing okay, they're just getting on with it, developing teh car and slowly, but definatly, catching up

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

Rather than moaning every year, SEAT could try building a decent car?



RedSam
Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
Due to the voting system in Germany, Governments are always made up of coalitions of different parties. At the last election, an almost unprecidented result saw the CDU/CSU (rough equivilant of the Conservatives) go into Government with the SPD (rough equivilant of Labour)

Alan Gow has far from killed the BTCC! He actually resurrected it! In 2001 we hadless than 10 cars for some rounds and only the Vauxhalls had any hope of winning we know have a field of over 20 where several cars can win on pace. Some of the driving further down the grid is a little questionable but I've seen a lot worse in many so-called "professional" series!

He's not resurrected it. He's created a new series which happens to share the same name but is nothing like the original series and shouldn't be talked about in the same sentence. I cant be arsed getting into another BTCC discussion, but considering that's our top series, BTCC is an embarrassment to British motorsports and only a handful of the drivers would survive at the very back of a grid in any other top national series.

BTCC has went through many evolutions and rule changes in his long and impressive history, and its current state is by far the worst of them all.

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The BTCC has changed regs many times in its history, so of course it is still the same championship. What we have now is a top line, professional championship with many top drivers and teams (Plato, Giovanardi, Neal, Turner, Turkington / VXR, Seat, Dynamics, WSR) fighting it out at the front but nevertheless smaller teams and drivers are able to afford and compete at a high level. Thats is precisely what most championships right around the globe are striving to achieve. Keeping the top teams and drivers happy and at the same time keeping the smaller gyus happy is not easy but from the guys I know in the BTCC, 90% of them are very happy with the current situation.

What we have now is a top line, professional championship with many top drivers and teams

And thats where we agree to disagree. As I said, I wont get into another BTCC discussion, but to me it isnt racing, it certainly isnt professional standards of racing and its an embaressment that THAT is our natonal series.

Although I did "lol" at the names Plato, Beal, Turner, Turkington, and SEAT being mentioned as top drivers and teams

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I fail to see whats so funny about Plato (more or less a match for Menu towards the end of their tie together at Renault), Neal (race winner in a private Nissan during the BTCC "glory days" and Turner (Le Mans winner) being named as top drivers. And have you handily forgotten about some of the amateur teams and drivers that managed to get into the BTCC during the Super Touring years?

lol you are really determined to drag this out arent you? Plato, professional? Top driver? Plato is a smary little runt who cant win races without dive bombing into anyone else. He proved that again this weekend causing no less than 3 accidents through driving standards which in any other series would have him banned. However BTCCs current rules and regulations are based on the show rather than professional racing, and accidents is how you bring in the general public, so he gets away with it. Matt Neal has been going down the same road in recent years.

At no point did I say that amatuer teams were bad. However I have alot of reviews from the 1980s and 1990s and with a few obvious excepts, to suggest that standards were this bad back then is nothing but complete rubbish. Even the standards in the independant series in the 90s or the Class D, Class C races in the 80s were greater than you see at the very front of todays grid, which has people like Onsole-Cole who are running on Daddys money.

Compare the names of now to the names of the 90s (Menu, Rydell, Biella, Cleland, Warwick, Thompson, Wikenlhock, Radisich, Ravalia, Hoy, Harvey) to todays grid and you'll see what I mean.

Like it if you want, I dont care (you seem to care alot more than me), however I know I'm not alone in having the opinion that BTCC is nothing but childs play in silly cars with poor driving encouraged to bring in the fans and money. Its certainly no match for WTCC or DTM and doesnt rate up there with any other major national series IMO. If you want to watch it, fine, but I want to watch a series which enforces driving rules and regulations and could organise a piss up in a brewery rather than the facre of this weekends events. Oh and before you ask the preidctable poor question of "If you hate it, why are you watching it?", I have Setanta and its better than having nothing on. The support series are quite enoyable, especailly the Porsche and Formula Renaults, which are not only more challenging cars to drive and race, but give a much higher standard of racing.

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Don't like the BTCC? Don't watch it, and don't flame others for watching it.

The BTCC is one of the best and most exciting racing series around. You seem to rate the WTCC quite highly (which I also enjoy), but in essence its exactly the same. And a lot of the WTCC drivers came from the BTCC. Thompson, Priaulx, Muller, Menu, Tarquini, Huff, Rydell and probably a few more.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2007 08:14PM by FRESCO.

Don't like the BTCC? Don't watch it, and don't flame others for watching it.

You really should try reading posts before making such comments.

And thats where we agree to disagree.

Like it if you want, I dont care (you seem to care alot more than me),

IMO

If you want to watch it, fine

As you can see I never flamed anyone for it, but hell, lets ignore basic facts eh? Seems to be the way forums are going these days.

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Oh and before you ask the preidctable poor question of "If you hate it, why are you watching it?", I have Setanta and its better than having nothing on.

Yes I read your post, but I certainly wouldn't watch something I don't enjoy just because theres nothing else on. So yes, if you don't like it, don't watch it.

Perhaps flaming is the wrong word, but it irritates me when someone goes on and slates something I personally enjoy, and someone else enjoys, just for the sake of prolonging your opinion.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2007 08:25PM by FRESCO.

Perhaps flaming is the wrong word

Yeah, its completely the wrong word. Infact its like calling a dog a car. Its not right at all.

but it irritates me when someone goes on and slates something I personally enjoy, and someone else enjoys, just for the sake of prolonging your opinion.

Oh look, another case of either not reading, or just plain ignoring what was said. Seemed to forget these comments:

And thats where we agree to disagree. As I said, I wont get into another BTCC discussion

and

lol you are really determined to drag this out arent you?

My opinion was over, and matthewjohnson asked questions and clarification on it, so I did. However your comment of "If you dont like it, dont watch it" can be applied to posts. Dont like my posts, stop putting in the effort to read them (Altho one could argue thats already happened judging by the replies). Secondly, someone doesnt like the same thing as you and you get upset? Diddums, tbh.

Yes I read your post, but I certainly wouldn't watch something I don't enjoy just because theres nothing else on

Oh woah, I dont mean to sound like a prick here, but reading really isnt your strong point. Not only did you quote me, but you edited the quote leaving out the important part to make yourself look correct. So i'll quote the whole thing for you, ok?

Oh and before you ask the preidctable poor question of "If you hate it, why are you watching it?", I have Setanta and its better than having nothing on. The support series are quite enoyable, especailly the Porsche and Formula Renaults, which are not only more challenging cars to drive and race, but give a much higher standard of racing.

FYI, the support series are on alot longer than the BTCC. However I'm not going to make the effort of going downstairs 6 times in a couple of hours just to change the channel after the support series have finished, just so I dont happen to see the BTCC.

I already said if you like it, watch it. I dont care and Im certainly not going to sit here and try and change your mind. However matthewjohnson asked about my opinion on certain things, and I replied. If you have a problem with that I suggest you stop reading forums.

Start reading my posts before replying, it'll help. Thanks.

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No series which determines grid position with teh wheel of fortune can ever be called "a premier racing series' imo


and ia gree with Ellis, having wtached most of teh Snetterton meeting, teh support races were far more enternaining.


I do think teh BTCC is entertaining, but look at the 'top level' motorpsort in other countries (DTM, ALMS, NASCAR, V8's) and teh BTCC is embarrasing quite frankly

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

If a big manufacter came to BTCC iam sure it would invite others too.

Just needs someone like Mercedes to make a proper effort, then you'll probably see Audi, BMW, Renault, and Honda making real efforts.

But I guess thats WTCC.

And lets face it, if i was BMW and had the choice of racing the BTCC or the WTCC, the choice is simple, id race the WTCC because its a worldwide sport, so more money.

Its too much hassle to run in both series...

DTM has dropped abit too. Though the drivers are still very much top class. But from what ive seen, the former DTM was better.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Genral Motors are the biggest motor vehicle producer in the world...are they not enough for you? :P

Old DTM was better but the FIA killed that off.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2007 02:43PM by DaveEllis.

couldn't be bothered to read all what is going on but to reply to the fist post

slicer ecrit:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i always root for the underdogs. and when it came
> to Le Mans 2007, no doubt i was waiting for
> Peugeot to kick some Audi butt. But as always,
> Audi took first. Wierd aint it. There's always
> some billionaire who creates super teams that are
> impossible to beat. This trend is becoming boring
> to me. The trend of 1 racing team pwning for
> waaaaayyyyy too long.
>
> I believe in racing, it should be diverse in terms
> of who wins. If someone wins a race one year, it
> should be a completely different person the next
> time, not like Audi and their Le Mans picnic.
> Couldn't they just make racing like it was in the
> olden days, where it was more about the driver
> instead of the machine? Ban customization in
> terms of chassis design? Just have all the cars
> be the same? Does anyone care? (well certainly
> not The Man who make more coin out of the races
> than the drivers)

I guess that's why there are series called ChampCar or GP2 and even more

- - - - -
Roberto - CTDP

www.rob38designs.co.nr

R0b3rt0_38 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> couldn't be bothered to read all what is going on
> but to reply to the fist post
>
> slicer ecrit:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > i always root for the underdogs. and when it
> came
> > to Le Mans 2007, no doubt i was waiting for
> > Peugeot to kick some Audi butt. But as always,
> > Audi took first. Wierd aint it. There's
> always
> > some billionaire who creates super teams that
> are
> > impossible to beat. This trend is becoming
> boring
> > to me. The trend of 1 racing team pwning for
> > waaaaayyyyy too long.
> >
> > I believe in racing, it should be diverse in
> terms
> > of who wins. If someone wins a race one year,
> it
> > should be a completely different person the
> next
> > time, not like Audi and their Le Mans picnic.
> > Couldn't they just make racing like it was in
> the
> > olden days, where it was more about the driver
> > instead of the machine? Ban customization in
> > terms of chassis design? Just have all the
> cars
> > be the same? Does anyone care? (well certainly
> > not The Man who make more coin out of the races
> > than the drivers)
>
> I guess that's why there are series called
> ChampCar or GP2 and even more


V8 Supercars have done that but they still play follow the leader sometimes. You will never get racing now how is was in the old days, unless you watch historic touring cars. Motor Racing has now become so technically advanced thats it won't go to how it was, back then it was, who ever was better organised won the race, thats why HDT and Peter Brock (not taking anything away from the legend) won so many Bathursts ATCC titles and Sandown 500s, im pretty sure PB said that in a Muscle Car Mag


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whoever is better organised still win's the races though. renault proved these passed two years you dont have to have a massive budget to win, just oranise yourself correctly with teh budget you do have

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

winning takes time and alot of pain.

look at ferrari in f1, renault... if you inc 2001. and audi took a few years to get where they wanted to be in lemans.

but with all three of those examples, once they got to the top it was and is (for audi) tought to knock them.

its up to the other teams now.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL