What racing should be like

i always root for the underdogs. and when it came to Le Mans 2007, no doubt i was waiting for Peugeot to kick some Audi butt. But as always, Audi took first. Wierd aint it. There's always some billionaire who creates super teams that are impossible to beat. This trend is becoming boring to me. The trend of 1 racing team pwning for waaaaayyyyy too long.

I believe in racing, it should be diverse in terms of who wins. If someone wins a race one year, it should be a completely different person the next time, not like Audi and their Le Mans picnic. Couldn't they just make racing like it was in the olden days, where it was more about the driver instead of the machine? Ban customization in terms of chassis design? Just have all the cars be the same? Does anyone care? (well certainly not The Man who make more coin out of the races than the drivers)

Back then the cars weren't the same, it's just that some allocated resources better or managed to hire better people, then with time it evolved to great results and increase in power. Nowadays everyone has skilled people so cars are very advanced and one little thing off will put you well behind. Of course some rule changes can help the sport but we'll always see something new

thank u for ur point there . but what im trying to say is that back then, is was more about the driver. It was the driver who had to make the most out of their car because they didnt have traction control or little winglets on the body back then. Now people worry more about the car like " oh crashed in the first corner. i blame the downforce" or " he missed the apex and slid off the track. we need more downforce" or whatever. In those situations, it was the drivers fault. If u want a better team, go train ur drivers, not ur car. I believe that a good driver makes the most out of the technology but a great driver, a superb driver can drive great without all the fancy bells and whistles.

'Training' your car is easier than training your drivers, hence why teams do it.

As for the Audi thing, it's up to the other teams to beat them by producing better cars. Not to the FIA to change rules.

Thing what amazed me about the R8 was that it hardly changed at all. There were of course small developments but that was it.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

As for the Audi thing, it's up to the other teams to beat them by producing better cars. Not to the FIA to change rules.

Especailly since the FIA have nothing to do with Le Mans, its regulated by the ACO.

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There, you see

to be fair with re: to Audi, most the teams that won with teh R8 were 'customers'/privateers, and in teh ALMS Penske are certainly giving them a run for there money.

Having said that, the 'richest' teams have always won whatever. Be it Ferrari, mcLaren, Williams, Lotus in F1, Porsche and Jaguar at Le Mans, Triple 8 Vauxhall in teh BTCC, its teh same in any sport.


Still, i'm more interested in the machines. Things like Audi changing a gearbox in less than 10mins excite me just as much as some side by side racing

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

to be fair with re: to Audi, most the teams that won with teh R8 were 'customers'/privateers, and in teh ALMS Penske are certainly giving them a run for there money.

Porsche is only giving them a run because Roger Penske is bumming IMSA up the arse. The rules are completly biast agaisnt Audi. Not even against LMP1, just Audi!

Penske also managed to convince Porsche to not give the Spyder to Alex Job racing and give them the first evolution of the cars over Dyson. The situation IMSA have created with the rules "balencing" meaning LMP2s are almost always always beating LMP1s is daft.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2007 04:26PM by DaveEllis.

Still, i'm more interested in the machines. Things like Audi changing a gearbox in less than 10mins excite me just as much as some side by side racing

Since about 2001 ive taken quite an interest in the lmp racers and for me i find them much much more interesting racing cars than Forumla one racers.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

DaveEllis Wrote:
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> to be fair with re: to Audi, most the teams that
> won with teh R8 were 'customers'/privateers, and
> in teh ALMS Penske are certainly giving them a run
> for there money.
>
> Porsche is only giving them a run because Roger
> Penske is bumming IMSA up the arse. The rules are
> completly biast agaisnt Audi. Not even against
> LMP1, just Audi!
>
> Penske also managed to convince Porsche to not
> give the Spyder to Alex Job racing and give them
> the first evolution of the cars over Dyson. The
> situation IMSA have created with the rules
> "balencing" meaning LMP2s are almost always always
> beating LMP1s is daft.

your talking to an Audi fan here the problem there is coz theres only 3 ( ? ) LMP1 cars IMSA want a fight for overall wins to improve the show. And whilst i'm all for improving teh show, it has gone to far. LMP1 should be wiping the floor with LMP2, but until we get more LMP1 cars, which doesnt look likely with teh rules (in)stability it will stay as it is.


i agree with you on that as well chet, LMP1 is far more technologically 'advanced' than F1 these day's

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

IMSA want a fight for overall wins to improve the show.

theres more to it than that IMO. Yeah theres only 3 LMP1 cars (1 Lola) and I can see them saying they want a fight, but theres only 2 GT1 cars, and a whole host of GT2s. Why arent the rules bent to get a GT battle? Oh because Vette are American! Im a huge Corvette fan and cheer them over Aston Martin any day, but at the end of the day all IMSA Wants is Americans up there. Both Porsche spyder teams are run by Americans, with a bunch of American drivers.

Its really annoying to watch, because ALMS circuits, teams, and cars are far more interesting than the LMS ones, but I cant watch ALMS as I'm tired of watching IMSA rape Audi whilst allowing Corvette, and to an extent the Porsche Spyders, run off into the distance.

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Why does it seem Audi just lets it happen then? What have they done about it?

What can they do about it? They complain constantly and threaten to leave the series. They have no say in the situation.

Chances are they if they leave they will go LMS and directly compete with Peugeot there. But if they do then ALMS is down to 1 LMP1 car, which is crap and cant beat the LMP2s when the rules aren't biast.

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If I were Audi I'd leave and face some good, healthy competition elsewhere. Once there's only one car by itself the ALMS should realize the massive muck up.

It's seriously annoying hearing some terribly misinformed and biased reporters from Speed TV when they talk about that and Champ Car, completely leaving out the truly important stuff that goes on :\ (2 different people even!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2007 11:24AM by Guimengo.

the whole point of the R10 was for Audi to promote diesel engines in America, so i cant see them leaving for the LMS, although with the Pugs in it it might happen

of course if Pug do sell 908's to privateers i reckon that we'll see a few in teh ALMS (Pescarolo has already said he would consider it). But if things stay as they are, there will be 1 LMP1 car and no GT1's in teh series next season, as Corvette wont race themselves again.

btw Dave, are both LMP1 and LMP2 running to full ACO rules now, or are IMSA still restricting the R10's in some way?

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

IMSA are still restricting the R10s. there's no need to restrict LMP1 overall because the Lola that's running is a pile of wank, so its never going to be a problem. But Audi seem to have different air restrcitors and fuel tank sizes every week now. They manage to be biast directly against Audi by making separate rules for the diesel engines as well.

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I glad someone agrees with me on the LMP1/LMP2 situation. Since when did the second division cars have to be equal with the top division! Penske turn up and (not surprisingly) are slower than the LMP1 cars. So you complain to IMSA to re-arrange the order. Ridiculous! Its like turning up for a GP in a GP2 car and whinging that you're way off the pace! You don't see GT2 cars wanting to be on the pace of the GT1 cars!

Just finished listening to RLM podcast of Mid Ohio (missed it at the weekend) and i am amazed at how an E10 fuelled can run 4laps longer than a diesel fulled Audi :|

and matthewjohnson, i agree. its liek Seat in every championship they're in conmplaing that they're to slow and should be given a rules break to compete. develop your effing cars! and if porsche/penske want overall wins, they should of built an LMP1 racer, like Honda/Acura are (were) going to

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

Seats' attitude is really getting on my nerves! I love Alan Gows' attitude to it though. Recently Plato and Seat were complaining about how "uncompetitive" they were and how the WTCC always adjusts the rules and his reposnse was they can refer to the WTCC if they like, but they're actually doing a lot worse there than they are in the BTCC! Its just a joke. If your car isn't quick enough, built a faster one!