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AUS_Doug Wrote:
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> Any complaints along the lines of 'He only won
> because the competition favours keyboarders' are,
> frankly, a case of sour grapes from someone who
> won every race but one last season.

I proved why 3 events a keyboard driver won and the only event a keyboard drier didnt win
he was close enought even thought he had the maximum fuel penalty.

AUS_Doug Wrote:
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> Last season, every race except Brazil was won by a
> wheel driver; As the 2013 mod didn't radically
> change the physics - or so I believe - from
> Vanilla, this provides a good example of how
> naturally dominant wheel users are over
> keyboarders.

Yes i won all those races. It was original Gp4 physics with a slight alteration on the bhp.
I did not choose the physics. Their was no debate about the physics. Their was no handicap.
Keyboard drivers didnt complaint(at least in the forum) not my problem, they could have exercised their rights.

AUS_Doug Wrote:
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> At Singapore, Stefano won again......but by less
> than .02 of a second from the closest wheel user;
> Here again, Stefano was nearly a second quicker
> than the next keyboard driver.

Maybe supermonty could not do better.

Their is a second alternative, its something that Javi and me are debating currently
about Stefano86k hotlaps. Maybe we have a cheater here.
As Hotlaps.de Gp4 web admin for 5 years i saw all kind of cheats and weired things.

AUS_Doug Wrote:
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> If, as is alleged, the physics favour keyboard
> drivers, why is it that only ONE keyboard driver
> out of the EIGHT that have competed this year has
> won so far?

Look at the second part of my previous comment.


AUS_Doug Wrote:
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> And when Tom says that the rules favour the
> keyboard drivers, think of it more as 'they don't
> smash the kneecaps of the keyboard drivers'; If
> you limited the amount of steering help available
> to them, and take away their traction & launch
> control, you are taking them out of contention
> entirely."

Normally i would agree on this without any doubt.

But i think we have an exception for this in season 2 competition for 2 reasons:
The physics and we are looking a driver that possibly is doing something ilegal.

AUS_Doug Wrote:
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> As it is now, the people with the superior control
> mechanism have to work just that little bit harder
> to beat those less fortunate; How exactly, is that
> a bad thing?

I did my maximum performance in Monza and in Singapore and to be within the rules.

Their is no way to catch or performe similar than a keyboard driver with current physics.
So explain to me how to go faster?

Hey nothing in this world is fair....is it?

Sometimes it will suit you, sometimes it would not.

So stop this bickering and play



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2014 05:25PM by brasspanels.

jcaranti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Their is a second alternative, its something that
> Javi and me are debating currently
> about Stefano86k hotlaps. Maybe we have a cheater
> here.
> As Hotlaps.de Gp4 web admin for 5 years i saw all
> kind of cheats and weired things.

Interesting; Is there any chance of you telling me how one might cheat?
I promise not do it myself!
(Although, if I were to try and cheat, I'd probably find a way to mess it up!)

Frankly though, I doubt that this is the case - and will continue to do so until evidence is presented to the contrary - and instead refer back to my comment about this being a case of sour grapes.

In fact, before vilifying Stefano without evidence, I'd like to remind you of something a great man said 47 days ago:

Quote

Im wondering when others will improve instead of penalizing a driver that does what he does well and legal.

jcaranti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> So explain to me how to go faster?

Easy: Practice and experiment my friend.

With twelve hours to go at Singapore, I was wondering how I was going to find one-tenth............After a tweak of the front wing and a change to the gear ratios - Doing so consumed no more than 1 minute of my time - I found over a second!

---

F1 Graphics Swapper --- Lensdump - Renders and Screenshots --- GP4 Performance Generator

AUS_Doug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting; Is there any chance of you telling me
> how one might cheat?
> I promise not do it myself!
> (Although, if I were to try and cheat, I'd
> probably find a way to mess it up!)

That will not happend.

AUS_Doug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd like to remind you of something a
> great man said 47 days ago:
>
> Im wondering when others will improve instead of
> penalizing a driver that does what he does well
> and legal.

Yes, i said that.
I still think the same. But its obvious the conditions changed.
We were using original Gp4 physics.
Wheel drivers with those physics have an advantage. I was super ok
with the fuel penalty system with those physics.
Now its the other way around: current physics favor keyboard drivers.
yes im not ok with penalties when wheel drivers now have a clear disadvantage.
The rules of season 2 were designed to hurt wheel drivers.

> jcaranti Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > So explain to me how to go faster?
>
> Easy: Practice and experiment my friend.

Tell me if your retarded or practice to be retarded.
I said i did my maximum performance on both tracks.
I tried everything, i could not squeeze anything more out of it.


AUS_Doug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With twelve hours to go at Singapore, I was
> wondering how I was going to find
> one-tenth............After a tweak of the front
> wing and a change to the gear ratios - Doing so
> consumed no more than 1 minute of my time - I
> found over a second!

When you had 1m41.4 that was your setup.
Then you copied Javi`s setup you made 1m40.2. You did not find anything.
You are a LIAR.

What do you want to be changed so that it would be fair to wheel drivers jcaranti?

brasspanels Wrote:
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> What do you want to be changed so that it would be
> fair to wheel drivers jcaranti?

That keyboard drivers use Hard tyre compound in hotlaps and races instead of soft tyres.

With this i think it will be positive for the championship. Real results and fair to all.

jcaranti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When you had 1m41.4 that was your setup.
> Then you copied Javi`s setup you made 1m40.2. You
> did not find anything.
> You are a LIAR.

No sir; I made the tweaks mentioned, and was able to find the time I talked about.

But it was a rather unstable setup, and I couldn't find that time consistently.

I did not submit a lap that used that setup.

Then I used Javi's setup - I really like his setups - and was able to consistently put in times like that which I had done with my slightly tweaked ones.

Granted that I didn't make this clear in my last post, but I didn't really expect you to jump down my throat about it.

---

F1 Graphics Swapper --- Lensdump - Renders and Screenshots --- GP4 Performance Generator

AUS_Doug Wrote:
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> I did not submit a lap that used that setup.

GP4 1.02 Hotlap for track 10: Marina Bay
Level: Pro / Frame rate: 35.0 FPS
Race type: Practise Session: Unlimited practise
Weather type: Realistic
Car #66, driven by Douglas Spangenberg (Red Bull - Renault)
Power: 815 BHP, weight 692 kg, fuel laps: 1.1
Lap time: 1:41.446 (split1 0:26.987, split2 1:04.550)

Setup:
17,12 R41.625:58.375F 25,30,35,41,45,50,56 9/10,7/7
ARB: F 04000 R 0200 Tyre type: Soft Drys
29/5/5/10/07/0860/17.0 [1.03] 29/5/5/10/07/0860/17.0 [1.00]
41/1/3/02/01/0890/45.0 [0.83] 41/1/3/02/01/0890/45.0 [0.79]


How come i have your hotlap and setup if you didnt submit a hotlap with your setup.


JAVIs setup
Setup:
19,16 R41.875:58.125F 22,27,32,38,43,48,55 8/9,5/5
ARB: F 01500 R 0150 Tyre type: Soft Drys
29/2/2/12/09/0950/19.5 [0.98] 29/2/2/12/09/0950/19.5 [0.92]
44/5/5/05/04/0750/42.0 [1.03] 44/5/5/05/04/0750/42.0 [0.97]


Start telling the truth for once.

@Jorge - using other peoples setups is allowed and encouraged. There's nothing wrong with it so ease up on Doug.

Also, I want to understand exactly why you think the physics favours keyboarders. How exactly - under braking? In corners? Under acceleration? Can you explain why you feel it favours keys? (Same question to Javi).

=====================================================


Intel NUC 8i3, 8GB RAM, MS Sidewinder Wheel

jcaranti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Start telling the truth for once.

Sorry, but I think something isn't quite coming through in the translation; I'll try again.

With ~12 Hours to go, I was after one-tenth or so.

At that moment, I was using one of Javi's earlier setups on which I had previously added a bit of front wing (I think) and made (again, I think) some other minute changes.

I then added more wing, altered some of the gears and, with that, was able to gain one second.

However, this setup was terrifically unstable for me and one in three laps ended up with me losing the back end on the final corner.

I then used Javi's newer setup - I think I added a bit of front wing to it - and was able to consistently post times that I was happy with.

It just so happened that it was one of these laps that was my best one.

Hope that clears up what I'm saying.

Cheers,
Doug.

---

F1 Graphics Swapper --- Lensdump - Renders and Screenshots --- GP4 Performance Generator

Japan Race #1 will be the first race event we have held under championship conditions. A few reminders in advance to all participants:

1) Submit an early banker result. Races take more time than hotlaps, so make sure your setting are all correct.

2) Set your replay length to the maximum 1hr 30 mins in the graphics menu.

3) Track limits (i.e. white lines) are relaxed during race events. It will be measured only by the HOFxLap output, which as we have already discussed, includes kerbs. So if HOFxLap says it is OK, then it is OK, no exceptions (except for blatent corner cutting in case HOFxLap misses it).

4) There are no fuel penalties for race events, so the top drivers only get driver aid and car choice restrictions.

5) Contact with other cars cannot be used to give the participant a clear advantage. So punting off the AI rather than overtaking them is not allowed.

Finally - you will notice that the performance restrictions this week fall on stefano, supermonty, javi and jorge. In other words, our top 2 keyboarders vs the top 2 wheel users. Guys - I have listened to your feedback, now let's see some great racing

=====================================================


Intel NUC 8i3, 8GB RAM, MS Sidewinder Wheel

Ooooo this is exciting!

TomMK Wrote:
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> 5) Contact with other cars cannot be used to give
> the participant a clear advantage. So punting off
> the AI rather than overtaking them is not
> allowed.


But...but... I am Nico Iceberg !

Punting is how I got 2nd @ Spa & I planned on using punting in Japan as well.

I just wished you had told me sooner so I could practice a none punting race style....DOH!!!

TomMK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Jorge - using other peoples setups is allowed and
> encouraged. There's nothing wrong with it so ease
> up on Doug.

Thats one of the things that Javi and me want to ask for changes for season 3.

TomMK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, I want to understand exactly why you think
> the physics favours keyboarders. How exactly -
> under braking? In corners? Under acceleration? Can
> you explain why you feel it favours keys? (Same
> question to Javi).

Look how keyboard drivers can breake easier than wheel drivers.
Look how they can accelerate better exiting the turns.
Look at Phoenix how keyboard drivers breaked so late into the hairpin in S1
and could accelerate easier and with a higher gear. Thats one example. Their plenty of others.

I showed the lap times performed by keyboard drivers in my previous comments.
Doesnt it tell you anything? Any spark or idea? Use common sense !!!.

TomMK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Finally - you will notice that the performance
> restrictions this week fall on stefano,
> supermonty, javi and jorge. In other words, our
> top 2 keyboarders vs the top 2 wheel users.
> Guys - I have listened to your feedback, now
> let's see some great racing

Not racing. I know it will be unfair, wheel drivers wont have a remote chance.

But you still insist on the restrictions on wheel drivers.
Sorry but i wont race without F7 and until i see keyboard drivers drive with hard tyres.
And if that doesnt happend i would like to ask to remove my results from season 2 because its unfair.

Tom, for points table, do you manually enter the values or is there a pre-programmed code which will automatically update the table?

Just went to the page for Japan and, when I click to download the track, it comes up as being "2013 11 Singapore v1.0 by jcaranti _ drt01.7z"

Is this a typo, or is it the wrong file?

Cheers,
Doug.

---

F1 Graphics Swapper --- Lensdump - Renders and Screenshots --- GP4 Performance Generator

@Jorge it would help me to evaluate the effect of the restrictions if you would participate. I am less likely to make changes if there are no results that indicate it is needed...

@brasspanels it is a fully automated system made from a combination of php, mysql and hofxlap.

=====================================================


Intel NUC 8i3, 8GB RAM, MS Sidewinder Wheel

Japan Race #1

The halfway point of the season is the first ever race event under championship conditions. It's not just about pure pace any more. Your overtaking ability is just as important now!

Race fairly, and good luck all

Edit: Doug it's fine for me. Anyone else having problems downloading the track?

Edit 2: I'm an idiot. I've fixed this now.

=====================================================


Intel NUC 8i3, 8GB RAM, MS Sidewinder Wheel



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2014 07:30AM by TomMK.

I think the wrong file is listed on the DL as Doug said seems to be Singapore & corrupted

Also no random seed number this time...yes?