2011 British GP **SPOILERS**

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So now its legal he is all for it.

Vettel might have dominated Webber but the race doesnt stop when Horner wants it to stop. It doesnt matter whether RBR gave preference to whoever where and when previously. Horner ordering his driver(s) to hold station before the race is up is simply wrong at this stage. There is no question about it. I dont care if Webber was given pit preference 20/10/5 laps before. That means nothing.

But as I said, the guys in power are more fickle than us.

I should add im still amazed at Horners response and not trusting his drivers.

If MW came on camera and serveral times stated he told Lewis and JB to stop racing because it would end in the wall, the media would go crazy! And the fans!

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

he could've told Vettel to let Mark trhough as he was coming faster and he wwanted to avoid an accident...

jk.. :-p

He also could have butted out of the fight letting Vettel and Webber handle it, as both Horner and Mateschitz so often said they would do. Then talk and action would be congruent.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

interesting that BILD today released article that says Red Bull is planning to bring Kimi Räikkönen back next year to drive alongside Vettel (apparently deal is almost done).this could be bye bye for Webber from RBR now. but well you never know about BILD...they were right about Schumi coming back to formula 1 but are they right this time?

it was also interesting to see after british gp that Webber had quite warm looking relationship with Stefano Domenicalli.

Yes Horner has shot himself in the foot with this one :L

vesuvius Wrote:
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> it was also interesting to see after british gp
> that Webber had quite warm looking relationship
> with Stefano Domenicalli.

Indeed! But then Stefano generally seems to be a nice guy anyway, deffo best team boss out of top teams!

Apparently Webber did back off on the final lap and did not make full use of the DRS zone on the final lap. Abit disappointed by that, if you disobey orders might aswell go the whole way and make it worth it!

Kimi to RBR seems to pop up every now again when Webber's future is under question.

Honestly, if Webber is not at RBR next season I can not see it being anyone but Button or Massa.

Button will not beat Lewis at Mclaren, and its probable he will not beat Vettel at RBR but I cant help but feel a car like the RBR will work to him more than the Mclaren. Difference is Vettel doesnt make as many mistakes as Lewis it seems and thats where Button really seems to capitalize.

Of course I would prefer Kimi back, and in the best car on the grid. The kimi fan inside me says he will wipe the floor with Vettel :p but my head says it will just be filled with disapointment much like his Ferrari reign .

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Webber will not go anywhere, who else could give him a winning car like that? Ferrari Alonso will destroy him, Mclaren Lewis will destroy him. Plus Webber seems to be the type of drivers that needs love and to keep being told he is loved. He needs to do his talking on the track not off it.

Webber has taken far too long to get upto speed and even at Silverstone was fighting for 3rd and 4th all race where Vettel was fighting for the win.

Webber had his chance last year and blew it.

With the car advantage they had Webber should have been finishing 2nd every race to Vettel's wins but he was not. yes he had KERS issues but his pace in some races has been so poor compaired to Vettel.

People keep saying what a bad job Massa is doing, I dont think Webber is doing any better tbh.

That's true, and why I reckon Mark will still try to hang onto an RBR contract. Otherwise, the best he can hope for next year is probably a Force India.

If MW came on camera and serveral times stated he told Lewis and JB to stop racing because it would end in the wall, the media would go crazy! And the fans!

Whitmarsh did do that in Turkey 2010. But as long as you continue to ignore this point whilst declaring Horner the devil, this conversation is over for me.

*bows out*

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Mclaren also done this to Lewis at Monaco in 2007 I think it was, to stay behind Alonso.

Webber also possibly has an offer from Renault, but I can't see him taking a step backwards like that. Obviously the fact that they've apparently offered him a drive isn't good news for Kubica's recovery either.

Kimi would definitely be great publicity, and that's what Red Bull wants. It would be fascinating to see, but I definitely can't see Vettel being beaten by Kimi.

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X (@ed24f1)

DaveEllis Wrote:
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> Whitmarsh did do that in Turkey 2010. But as long
> as you continue to ignore this point whilst
> declaring Horner the devil, this conversation is
> over for me.
>
> *bows out*


Not that I doubt you, but I can not remember him saying his drivers would end up in the wall if they raced. I would be grateful if you could refresh me on that one.

And given that we are talking about Turkey, I guess you can understand MW's opinion (there was alot more at stake at that time then there was for Webber v's Vettel on Sunday*). If JB and LH did collide, and MW told them to stop racing at every other opportunity they've met on track I would feel no different.

Button and Lewis have proved on numerous occasions how to race each other. Unfortunately Button has been on the receiving end for the most part :p but they prove its possible, and I have every belief Vettel and Webber can race fairly, and safely without the need of a failed racing drivers opinion. (granted, the failed racing driver has turned into a championship winning boss - but his opinion on racing must be taken with care).

* - At that point RBR were ahead of Mclaren, and the fact that RBR screwed up a 1-2 gave Mclaren a huuuuuge chance to catch up. Consider Silverstone. The only real loss would have been points for Webber, and a dent in the massive WDC, and WCC lead they have. Put it this way, its my belief that RBR have enough in hand at this stage to risk on track battles. Later on in the season they most probably will not have that addvantage.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

"Kimi would definitely be great publicity, and that's what Red Bull wants. It would be fascinating to see, but I definitely can't see Vettel being beaten by Kimi."

I think sadly you are right. Kimi has been out of f1 for too long (look at MS) and on top of that he was dozing off for half his time at Ferrari. Who remembers him enjoying his ice cream when the rest of the grid were contemplating going back in the rain in Malaysia? I'm sure though there would be the odd occasion when he'd show Vettel what being really quick is all about.

Just a query about Silverstone w/e - I may have got this wrong but Ted remarked in his Beeb video blog that Webber came in first because he was racing Alonso for second at the time - Vettel being a country mile up the road.

davidm Wrote:
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>
> Just a query about Silverstone w/e - I may have
> got this wrong but Ted remarked in his Beeb video
> blog that Webber came in first because he was
> racing Alonso for second at the time - Vettel
> being a country mile up the road.


Exactly. As I said earlier in the thread, why wouldn't you help Webber improve position whilst Vettel had such a brilliant lead.

People talk about Webber getting the favourable pit stop as if it were favouring Webber against Vettel...

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

yes, ice cream is forbidden, especially enjoying it

gp was alright i guess, alonso got ahead of both mclarens in points, horner gets paranoid - i guess the decision was somewhat rational but is he really THAT afraid of mclaren, they're miles behind ??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2011 07:31PM by LeeBeau.

Had Webber made the most of his speed after the pitstops he would have passed Vettel then like Alonso did.

What ever way you look at it Webber is not getting 100% out the car and Vettel is.

I think the point is that Red Bull have made an issue of the fact that they were benefitting Webber when they were in fact reacting to a different scenario. The argument is not about whether Webber is faster than Vettel, which you would have to conclude he is'nt. Thats as I understand it.

Also thinking about Williams team orders. I can't actually recall 1992 and any situation where Patrese was going to kick Mansells rear end. 93 I would imagine was a contractual situation with Damon being a promoted test driver. Prior to that 1980/81 had seen big issues between Jones and Reutemann, where Jones was favoured and the resulting strife probably convinced Frank and Patrick that life would be easier without orders. There always though certain advantages - ie Piquet had first call on the reserve car before Mansell for 86 and 87 and so on.

Quote
davidm
I can't actually recall 1992 and any situation where Patrese was going to kick Mansells rear end.

Though I remember Mansell letting Patrese through at Monza. He did the same in 1991 to have a go at Senna, only to have a gearbox failure the after passing Senna.

Wasn't it because it was Patrese's home race

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Probably, but looking back he did the same in Suzuka too.