2012 Chinese Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

A very rare case of a great Tilke track, some rain would make it pretty interesting. If that happens my vote for winner would go to Jenson, but if the track remains dry keep an eye for Hamilton. I also expect some kind of response from RBR, so keep an eye on them too.

I don't think Ferrari will get lucky again, they'd need another crazy race like Sepang. But I do expect a good performance from the Sauber boys. I reckon it's gonna be interesting.



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps

Great Tilke track? It's OK. Promotes some decent racing, but then often due to the climate.

I doubt many would class any Tilke tracks as great, Istanbul and Sepang probably being OK at best.

It's a @#$%& track. Weather not withstanding, it's boring and uneventful.


There is no such thing as a great Tilke track.

Yeah, I kind of exaggerated with "great", but it's way better than others like Valencia, Bahrain, India and his criminal Hockenheim modification.



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps

Hockenheim is still a good track, but it's woeful compared to what was there previously.

Granted, many complained that Hockenheim was boring, being mainly straights, but to me it was anything but - the cars were dancing down the straights, nevermind through the corners, the lack of downforce testing the drivers in the corners. It presented something else to the teams, something only Monza can get close to approaching in recent F1, and even then the cars are more planted.

Perhaps I'm biased with the whole Ferrari V12 thing, Berger's comeback win in '97, and Barrichello's win in 2000 was something to behold. And despite it not playing a major role in historic F1, in the way that Monza has, it did claim the life of Jim Clark, and that was a track like no other - think the F1 equivalent of Michigan or Daytona, but lined with trees rather than walls.

I was never as nervous at the start of a race than at the start of the German GP. Only a 90's Michigan 500 comes close.

I found this on a German Website Today

F1 Argentina 2013?
The premier guest appeared in 2013 not only in Brazil but also in Argentina and back to two times per season in South America. Such as "Sprint Car" reports, currently a corresponding three-year contract is placed. The agreement between the Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone and the Argentine representatives will probably already signed in May.

The track is in Argentina in Mar del Plata, a seaside resort in the east of Argentina, created under the guidance of architect Hermann Tilke. The course is the "Sprint Car" report to follow about five kilometers long and will get 18 curves.


Why not Buenos Aires? I love this Track

The Real Story of the Race was that the Renault's fell apart and the Ferrari's didn't.
Rosberg headed for the sliproad and retired, probably because of Nicotin starvation they have still not given him a helmet with a little hole in it.

gav Wrote:
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> Great Tilke track? It's OK. Promotes some decent
> racing, but then often due to the climate.
>
> I doubt many would class any Tilke tracks as
> great, Istanbul and Sepang probably being OK at
> best.


I know of several former F1 drivers and drivers from the feeder series, that consider Istanbul to be great if not outright fantastic.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Toki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I found this on a German Website Today
>
> F1 Argentina 2013?
> The premier guest appeared in 2013 not only in
> Brazil but also in Argentina and back to two times
> per season in South America. Such as "Sprint Car"
> reports, currently a corresponding three-year
> contract is placed. The agreement between the
> Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone and the Argentine
> representatives will probably already signed in
> May.
>
> The track is in Argentina in Mar del Plata, a
> seaside resort in the east of Argentina, created
> under the guidance of architect Hermann Tilke. The
> course is the "Sprint Car" report to follow about
> five kilometers long and will get 18 curves.
>
>
> Why not Buenos Aires? I love this Track

Heres one of the potential layouts:


Personally i do quite like china, the layout is good and it has a good mix of corners. Should be quite an interesting race to see whether Red Bull can pull closer or McLaren stay at the top. And to see what sauber do of course.

_________________________________________________

For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here: [docs.google.com]

Quote
Morbid
I know of several former F1 drivers and drivers from the feeder series, that consider Istanbul to be great if not outright fantastic.

It's a fantastic GP2 track, and in F1 has undoubtedly one of the best corners in recent times, but it's still a bit too 'sanitised', for want of a better word. I was too negative in calling it "OK at best", but personally, as either a spectator or a sim-racer, I couldn't call it great. Perhaps if I was feeling the g-forces around some of the corners I'd change my mind, but otherwise it's not quite up there for me.

If it were still around in 10 years time (which sadly appears not to be), then yeah, I might hold it in higher regard, but for now I couldn't put it up with Silverstone (still undecided on the new layout though), Suzuka or Spa, or perhaps even Monza (though it isn't the track it was 10 years ago, and doesn't seem quite the challenge either).

That Argetina proposal looks to be as about as much FIA patterned generic Tilkedrome as you can get.

I agree with Gav about Hockenheim, as a racing track it's now much improved but it came at the cost of the best layout to show the cars really moving about at speed. It had a sense of extreme diversity from the norm of F1 tracks and I loved it for it.

That's what is missing from modern F1, circuit diversity. There's too many circuits built to a single formula. That's not really Tilke's fault as it's the standard imposed on him by F1. But the only recent addition to F1 to break the mould and carry an identity and atmosphere of it's own is Singapore.

The only, and I mean ONLY, reason everyone hates the new Hockenheim track is because, for some reason, the old part of the track was wiped away. I'm taking it's one of those hippy
eco-environment people said "WAH WAH WAH! The Classic version is ruining the planet! WAH WAH WAH! It's poluting the forest! WAH WAH WAH! We want to place tree's there even though the new track would cut MORE down! WAH WAH WAH WAAAAAAH!"

Seriously, why did they take away the old track? If I ever have the chance to go to Hockenheim, and I want to pay my respects to Jim Clark, instead of just asking someone "Excuse me, can I please go pay my respects to Jimmy Clark?" and getting a drive over there, by the time I get to Germany, I'll need a tour guide to hike to the place.

It's like making a new Imola configuration, which cuts through the original track and goes to the corner two corners after Villeneuve, but instead of also having the one they have now, they scrap Tamburello, Villeneuve and Torsa (if that's what it's called) and have trees and plants there! Then I'd have to get ANOTHER idiot environment person to disrupt and guide me to pay my respects to Senna and Ratzenburger like I'm a damn idiot! I'm all for saving the planet, but don't screw us in the process!

It was a money thing for Hockenheim, they couldn't put enough grandstands in the foresty part to make enough money back on hosting the race. The new set-up was all that was possible. Massive loss, amazing circuit, but there was no other way.

loque Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was a money thing for Hockenheim, they couldn't
> put enough grandstands in the foresty part to make
> enough money back on hosting the race. The new
> set-up was all that was possible. Massive loss,
> amazing circuit, but there was no other way.


I don't think that is true. Had more to do with how long that old track was and how widely track was spread. F1 officials wants Spa to be modified because of same reasons.

"In the early 2000s, F1 officials demanded the 6.823 km (4.240 mi) track be shortened and threatened to discontinue racing there, due to competition from other tracks such as the EuroSpeedway Lausitz and sites in Asia. The state government of Baden-Württemberg secured the financing for the redesign by Hermann Tilke for the 2002 German Grand Prix."

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

Well at least they could've kept the old layout for future refrence

Why is a long track a bad thing for the FIA?

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hockenheim is still a good track, but it's woeful
> compared to what was there previously.
>
> Granted, many complained that Hockenheim was
> boring, being mainly straights, but to me it was
> anything but - the cars were dancing down the
> straights, nevermind through the corners, the lack
> of downforce testing the drivers in the corners.
> It presented something else to the teams,
> something only Monza can get close to approaching
> in recent F1, and even then the cars are more
> planted.
>
> Perhaps I'm biased with the whole Ferrari V12
> thing, Berger's comeback win in '97, and
> Barrichello's win in 2000 was something to behold.
> And despite it not playing a major role in
> historic F1, in the way that Monza has, it did
> claim the life of Jim Clark, and that was a track
> like no other - think the F1 equivalent of
> Michigan or Daytona, but lined with trees rather
> than walls.

This.

> I was never as nervous at the start of a race than
> at the start of the German GP.

I was more excited than anything else. Hockenheim was always so mesmerising to watch. The racing was always so close and tense, the car/tyre failures were so spectacular because of the speeds and loads involved, everything about the racing was bigger and better there somehow. I also loved it for the simple reason it was different - the very thing that made its replacement with a bland Tilke track blasphemous. There were lots of fun quirky aspects about the racing there - like the drivers getting bored and doing "housework" while going down the straights(In the early laps of the 1992 race there's a great shot of Schumacher diligently wiping his windscreen as he headed down the longest straight on the track towards Schikane 1, and in 1997 Ralf kept reaching across his cockpit to do up a screw that had come loose). And most of the races there ended up being classics in one way or another; one race which never seems to get mentioned is 1989, with the mindblowing battle for the lead between Senna and Prost. I think that should be right up there with '94 and 2000.

Even now I think it was an actual crime to destroy the original layout of that track. I don't have a problem with the Tilke "infield" track being created, but the original track should've been left intact and preserved, as a mark of respect if nothing else. What happened there was, as far as I'm concerned, just an act of vandalism. It made my blood boil 10 years ago when I first found out it was happening, and it makes me just as angry now.

Anybody who thinks the real Hockenheim shouldn't be missed just needs to watch this:





In an ideal world you'd want it restored to this layout. Mesmeric.

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That has to be the most sickning sight I have ever seen. The Ostkurve looks so depressed, so out of sort. How could the FIA do this? HOW? The old track is sooo much better. Why did they tear up the old track?! WHHHHHY!?!?! That is a disrespectful thing to do to all the people who died on that track. Jim Clark would be turning in his grave. The place he died, the place he had the chicane which he died at names after him, the place where he left us looks like a god damn nature resurve! Why the hell could they do this? Oh what? The hairpin was on the oringinal track (just before the Senna chicane) and from there to turn 5 it cuts through the chicane. Well, that argument in invalid. That's like me making Spa shorter and having to scrap is just because part of the new track bypasses the old track. I'm sure that's not the reason, but AT LEAST KEEP THE F@^(!*G OLD PART FOR ENDURO'S OR TRACK DAYS!!!! What about the history of the old track? The Piquet fight, Prost trying to outbrake Senna and chewing a traffic cone in the process, Barrichello's first win, the man walking on the track, those were the great moments in F1 history. Instead, now every 2 years I have to watch some boring race, thinking how much better it could be. I had to witness "Fernando is faster than you" and I had to witness all sorts of other stupid antics. Cut the childness, if the old Hockenheim had been used, Massa and Alonso could really duke it out. At least I can retire to my laptop, turn on GP4 or rFactor, and race around one of the greatest tracks in F1 history. I can drive around it, no team orders, no DRS, no KERS, no Herman Tilke, no FIA, nothing. And with that, I can drive around it and reminice. I can get rid of my anger and watch myself power through Clark, the Ostkurve and Senna, down the straghts, through the finishline.

That is pure racing.

Try and stay on topic gentlemen, and I've only just noticed that this thread is a week early!

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:OFF TOPIC: There are reports that Argetina is set to sign a 3 year deal and it will be on a street circuit.

:ON TOPIC: if you were Kimi, what would be the Chinese take-away of your choice to enjoy during the race stoppage?