Official 2014 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix Thread ***Spoilers***

Just done the calculation. Williams scored 4980% more points this season than last. 4980%.

gav schrieb:
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> Just done the calculation. Williams scored 4980%
> more points this season than last. 4980%.


The Maldonado factor, Lotus probably has a similar percentage less xD

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I really hope they can keep it up next year.

how much development did Merc do on the car in 2014 as a mate of mine thinks none since Canada.

J i m Wrote:
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> Lots of stuff

I cut the text, but I couldn't agree more with you. We owe a huge thanks to Rosberg for keeping Hamilton under pressure for the duration of the season. God, what an awful season it would have been with Ferrari style team orders. Hamilton was generally regarded as the best qualifier on the grid before the start of the season, but IMHO Rosberg has smashed that image beyond repair now. He has shown a determination that very few drivers, even champions, have. And he has definitively shown that he is the real deal when it comes to becoming a future champion. As a small illustration, I haven't seen any one here call him Britney for a long time now, even though it has been in use here for years. I felt sorry for him during the GP, because that was such an unworthy end to his campaign. As it turned out, it would not had made a difference if his equipment hadn't failed, but I certainly felt he was more than justified to have a clean ability determined run at it. And I was bloody annoyed that we kept getting camera feed of his face, like we need to go hunting for tears in the moment of hurt. WTF is up with that, this is not a theatrical and gimmicky reality show.

> It seems to be a shame to think that Button has
> probably raced in his last Grand Prix, there were
> no heroics from today but it's been a strong end
> to the year from him. He's done his talking on the
> track and recently it's been saying "I'm beating
> Magussen and Alonso". There's no doubt that
> Alonso's deal is done, and although he's
> doubtlessly the best overall driver in F1, I can't
> help but feel that McLaren would be better off
> keeping Button as lead driver, Magussen as
> understudy and Vandoorne as waiting in the wings
> for when Button finally retired. I sense Alonso
> will run McLaren into the ground.

Button seems very sure that it is the end, with all the gratitude and nostalgia he has been wrapped in of late. The other day Ron Dennis called Magnussen "a potential sporting legend". Boullier gave an after the race verdict of Magnussen's season, and called it very good. They are both very coy though, when it comes to revealing what he will be doing next season. All they are willing to say is that he will be in F1. Button has been an excellent team mate and has delivered well regularly. Ironically, the more he seemed to think he was out, the better he has been driving. The late season push has been splendid. But as far as I can see, Ron Dennis and Eric Boullier are sold on Magnusson. From what I can piece together, the current power structure does not allow them to make the choice though. It is up to the board of directors, and they probably have a tendency to sway towards pure stats and economic considerations. Plus, I cannot image that Honda are not putting their weight behind Button. But it seems he is being sacrificed for Alonso instead. I don't think the way they have treated their drivers reflects well on McLaren at all, Button is better than that and has more than earned a due measure of respect, and it sure as hell has not done anything good for Magnusson's development either.

I think that McLaren are making a massive mistake with Alonso here. Sure there are few that are better at extracting the utmost from crap machinery, but that isn't really their grand plan is it now? What else does he have, that Button cannot match, if not in ability, then in bang for the buck for the salary difference? Alonso is a team mate destroyer, that insists on preferential treatment, and he is very good at making the entire organisation revolve around him. Why on earth would you put, what you consider to be, your up and coming driver in that position? Plus, Alonso has more than demonstrated, that if things don't go his way, he is willing to inflict a 100 million USD worth of vengeance.

I am almost hoping they will farm out Magnusson to another team for next season. We'd get to keep Button, and Magnusson would be shielded from Alonso. Praying for Alonso to not come to Macca is fool-hardy at best. The Spanish king blabbered about Alonso telling him, that he is going to McLaren, so it is a done deal.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2014 09:51PM by Morbid.

Jenson Button smashed, like literally wiped the floor, with Kevin Magnussen in the last 1/3 or 1/4 of the season. Magnussen's best finish was 5th in Russia, and still, Button was 4th that day with over 20 second ahead on the road.

Moreover, what exactly did Magnussen did in his first year that was worthy to keep him? If anyone points out the podium in Austtralia, it is just an own goal, because ever since he had gone worse and worse. We have seen throughout the years what the likes of Villeneuve, Schumacher, Kubica, Alonso, Montoya etc. can make in their first season, and that is not something magnussen has shown so far. I like Kevin, I just do not see any value in him as a driver, compared to the likes of Button. The performance difference between him and JB is at least as massive as Schumacher's over Barrichelo in their Ferrari years. And that, even without preferential treatment.

Even if McLaren let JB go, I am confident they will not keep Magnussen instead. Maybe there is a new star rising on the horizon.

Finally, Ron told to M.Brudnle something along those lines: @you are considering three drivers but why dont you assume that there are four". Hmm.... any ideas who those could be?

The four that McLaren are considering are likely to be Nando, JB, Mag and Vandoorne

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GPGSL-3 - Pizza Party Racing manager and driver
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Van...who? This cannot be a serious consideration can it?

I mean you have this new complicated power unit by honda, and you have to make it work perfectly with the car. Vandorne would need months to learn how to race properly, let alone set up new power unit the car. Or in the spirit of Alonso's team radio today... "who is this guy" :D:D:D

mitadumapaga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jenson Button smashed, like literally wiped the
> floor, with Kevin Magnussen in the last 1/3 or 1/4
> of the season. Magnussen's best finish was 5th in
> Russia, and still, Button was 4th that day with
> over 20 second ahead on the road.
>
> Moreover, what exactly did Magnussen did in his
> first year that was worthy to keep him? If anyone
> points out the podium in Austtralia, it is just an
> own goal, because ever since he had gone worse and
> worse. We have seen throughout the years what the
> likes of Villeneuve, Schumacher, Kubica, Alonso,
> Montoya etc. can make in their first season, and
> that is not something magnussen has shown so far.
> I like Kevin, I just do not see any value in him
> as a driver, compared to the likes of Button. The
> performance difference between him and JB is at
> least as massive as Schumacher's over Barrichelo
> in their Ferrari years. And that, even without
> preferential treatment.
>
> Even if McLaren let JB go, I am confident they
> will not keep Magnussen instead. Maybe there is a
> new star rising on the horizon.
>
> Finally, Ron told to M.Brudnle something along
> those lines: @you are considering three drivers
> but why dont you assume that there are four".
> Hmm.... any ideas who those could be?

You said it yourself; it's his FIRST season. It's Jenson Button's fifteenth. If you expect to just plug in a driver and expect him to perform, you have a very naive view of how people work.

Let's look at it from an objective perspective; Button has been handy, as you expect from him. If you want immediate success, then keep him. But Kevin was on his pace all year. Fine, he scored half the points, but it's a learning year! You can't expect him to be matching someone as good as Button from the off! That takes time.

You've offered examples, but none of them really stand out. Villeneuve had the best car in the field. Schumacher was alright in his debut season, but he wasn't obviously magnificent. Kubica was behind Heidfeld until 2008, Alonso was in a Minardi, and Montoya again had one of the best cars. Magnussen had a midfield car at best.

Let's look at Hakkinen, because I think Magnussen's punchy style is reminiscent of Hakkinen's in the early days. Hakkinen was on a par with Johnny Herbert at the start of his career at Lotus. He slowly grew, and by the end of the 20th century was the only man who could hold a candle to Michael Schumacher. Magnussen needs time, because he's a super-quick driver and to lose a talent like his would be a travesty.

So, despite your assertion that there is "no value to him", here's some reasons why he may prove a better prospect than Button going into the future.

- Time. Button has a maximum of two-three years left, and he's not getting any better. Magnussen is.
- Money. Right now, especially with Alonso's contract, Magnussen would present a cheaper option.
- Talent. Magnussen has it by the bucket load. Give him a few seasons and he'll be fantastic. People wrote off Bottas last season, but after a second season people are seeing what a talent he is.

But seriously, you cannot judge Magnussen from just one season. He started the season on his team-mate's pace, and if he can build up his racecraft and improve on his speed, then he's going places.

mitadumapaga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Van...who? This cannot be a serious consideration
> can it?
>
> I mean you have this new complicated power unit by
> honda, and you have to make it work perfectly with
> the car. Vandorne would need months to learn how
> to race properly, let alone set up new power unit
> the car. Or in the spirit of Alonso's team radio
> today... "who is this guy" :D:D:D

I take it you don't watch GP2. Vandoorne is electric.

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mitadumapaga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jenson Button smashed, like literally wiped the
> floor, with Kevin Magnussen in the last 1/3 or 1/4
> of the season. Magnussen's best finish was 5th in
> Russia, and still, Button was 4th that day with
> over 20 second ahead on the road.

And Magnusson drove with damage, and the team gave him inaccurate instructions on how hard to push the car, hence there was plenty left in the tyres when he pitted. Boullier has confirmed this.

> Moreover, what exactly did Magnussen did in his
> first year that was worthy to keep him?

Leading Button in qualifying score 9-6, that eventually was toppled to a 9-10. He has the pace, but does not understand the tyres, which frankly none of the current drivers did, when they were introduced to them. Qualifying for Q3 for 11 races in a row (12 if you count the Abu Dhabi penalties), which I believe Ricciardo and Rosberg are the only drivers who have managed to do that too this season. 15 Q3s, which only Hamilton, Rosberg, Ricciardo, Bottas and Alonso could do equally or better, and all but one of those certainly had superior equipment. And that's in a car that belongs in the 9th and 10th spot on the grid, WC standings considered. When was the last time you saw a rookie do that?

> If anyone
> points out the podium in Austtralia, it is just an
> own goal, because ever since he had gone worse and
> worse.

Discarding the Australian podium is ludicrous. He earned it fair and square. Ricciardo wouldn't have held on to the 2-3 seconds advantage over the line, if he hadn't been able to fudge the fuel consumption. So 2nd was deserved. If anything this shows, that on an equal playing field, where nobody really knows how the equipment works, he has what it takes. Once the season took off, experience from the other drivers proved invaluable, and they had an easier time getting to grips with how things worked.

> We have seen throughout the years what the
> likes of Villeneuve, Schumacher, Kubica, Alonso,
> Montoya etc. can make in their first season, and
> that is not something magnussen has shown so far.

So if you are not the next Villeneuve, Schumacher, Kubica, Alonso or Montoya, you are not good enough for F1? That's ridiculous. Most of the rookies we have had over the last two decades should have been tossed on the same grounds. We should even have discarded Button and Kimi (see earlier posts). Both got beat by their team mates, Button by x2 points by Ralf of all people (and David Tremayne called Button's debut "the stuff of any team owner's wildest dreams", even though he made such obvious rookie mistakes as crashing behind the SC), and Kimi got beat by 9-12 by Heidfeld (where Magnusson would have scored 8 points under that scoring system) in a car that was arguably better than this years Macca, and the grid was much weaker than it was this year. Kubica was equally beat by Heidfeld in his first full season with almost x2 the points, despite having 6 races of F1 experience and a full year as tester, where he probably covered some 25-30 GPs of milage, something that rookies don't and cannot have today, due to testing restrictions. JV came to F1 with the knowledge of how to setup a car asymmetrically, which he had learned in the states, where it was common knowledge due to oval racing (once that disseminated to the rest of the grid, he was good, but nothing super special). He was given the best car on the grid, that could do nothing but dominate, and he was beaten by arguably the weakest World Champion in ages. How could he not look good in his debut season?

Bottas has already been mentioned, so I wont do that here, but look at Ricciardo. He had over half a season of F1 experience and testing experience to boot when he came to Toro Rosso, and he was beaten by Vergne by 10-16. It was only in his second season he managed to defeat Vergne with 20-13, and look what he has done this season, and how has taken down Vettel. You would have tossed him!

> I like Kevin, I just do not see any value in him
> as a driver, compared to the likes of Button. The
> performance difference between him and JB is at
> least as massive as Schumacher's over Barrichelo
> in their Ferrari years. And that, even without
> preferential treatment.

Apples and oranges. Let me see that comparison again, when Magnusson has 7 seasons of F1 experience. And the driver, that has the record for the most GPs ever, had no value? You must be daft. And who would not have been beaten in that Ferrari team. Even if they had the skills to match MS, they would not have been allowed to race him, nor would they have had close to the same equipment.

> Even if McLaren let JB go, I am confident they
> will not keep Magnussen instead. Maybe there is a
> new star rising on the horizon.

We'll see. As far as I know, his seat revolves around lack of Danish will to supply sponsorship, not potential.

> Finally, Ron told to M.Brudnle something along
> those lines: @you are considering three drivers
> but why dont you assume that there are four".
> Hmm.... any ideas who those could be?

I don't know. But it doesn't really prove anything anyway. It's probably not Stoffel Vandoorne, as Magnusson beat him by a comfortable margin in the 2013 Formula Renault 3.5 Series season, so why would he do any better?

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2014 01:07AM by Morbid.

Hey Incident 2k9,

I see your points, so i Guess there really is not a single right answer to who deserves the 2nd mclaren seat more. That said, I would like to make a few remarks to your points:

Time: True. Magnussen has more years ahed than does Button, but I guess McLaren do need immediate results (even if you do not necessarily measure them in race positions). Working with Japanese is a challenge, and giving perfect car-engine input is also crucial. Magnussen is no better in those aspects than JB. Again, he does have more years, but why not arrange him a contract at, say, Torro Rosso and then get him back if he's worth the money in a McLaren-Honda that would already have a great basis to build upon. Kind of what Merc. did with Schumacher.

Money: Button saved McLaren mio. of dollars with his 5th place today, as pointed out by Ted. This beats anything magnussen can offer. Moreover, I assume Button's sponsors bring more money than Kevin's (just my assumption).

Talent: Here is a quote by Martin Brundle from Sky F1's website: "the new kid who has more upside potential but you don’t know how much that potential is." So with button you get a driver who is currently faster. With Magnussen you get a driver who may be faster. It is clearly more risky choice.


@ Morbid

I guess that what you want to say is: Button is not a bad choice, but Magnussen COULD be better. True, I must give you that, Kevin MAY get faster in the future - but this is speculation. So far he was simply not up to the speed that mclaren would really want from their line up next year. Qualifying counts for nothing in the championship and beating arguably the slowest qualifier by a mere 10:9 is not something to be very proud of. However, the majority of your arguments are either excuses (team gave him wrong input; other drivers had more experience); or pure speculations (e.g. see where Magnussen is in 7 years).

Again, dont get me wrong, I also think that Kevin MAY grow into a great driver. Thus, it is safer to let him drive for a middle level team - toro rosso or the likes, and then get him onboard for 2016 or 2017 if he shows good progress.

Tbh, the team has the raw data of the drivers and they also want the best for McLaren - otherwise they loose their jobs ))). So my opinion does not really count for anything, and we must respect what the team decides. However, from my job as a consultant, I learned one thing: People dont do their job well in reality". This is proven by numerous example in formula 1 both this season and in previous ones.

On another note: ted's remarks were spot on at the end of his notebook: "I havent asked matiacci yet, how he feels that his both drivers for the next season got beaten by their teammates". Indeed, not only beaten but smashed. Vettel and Raikkonen were probably the weakest teammates this season.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2014 01:13AM by mitadumapaga.

Hey Incident 2k9,

I see your points, so i Guess there really is not a single right answer to who deserves the 2nd mclaren seat more. That said, I would like to make a few remarks to your points:

Time: True. Magnussen has more years ahed than does Button, but I guess McLaren do need immediate results (even if you do not necessarily measure them in race positions). Working with Japanese is a challenge, and giving perfect car-engine input is also crucial. Magnussen is no better in those aspects than JB. Again, he does have more years, but why not arrange him a contract at, say, Torro Rosso and then get him back if he's worth the money in a McLaren-Honda that would already have a great basis to build upon. Kind of what Merc. did with Schumacher.

Money: Button saved McLaren mio. of dollars with his 5th place today, as pointed out by Ted. This beats anything magnussen can offer. Moreover, I assume Button's sponsors bring more money than Kevin's (just my assumption).

Talent: Here is a quote by Martin Brundle from Sky F1's website: "the new kid who has more upside potential but you don’t know how much that potential is." So with button you get a driver who is currently faster. With Magnussen you get a driver who may be faster. It is clearly more risky choice.


@ Morbid

I guess that what you want to say is: Button is not a bad choice, but Magnussen COULD be better. True, I must give you that, Kevin MAY get faster in the future - but this is speculation. So far he was simply not up to the speed that mclaren would really want from their line up next year. Qualifying counts for nothing in the championship and beating arguably the slowest qualifier by a mere 10:9 is not something to be very proud of. However, the majority of your arguments are either excuses (team gave him wrong input; other drivers had more experience); or pure speculations (e.g. see where Magnussen is in 7 years).

Again, dont get me wrong, I also think that Kevin MAY grow into a great driver. Thus, it is safer to let him drive for a middle level team - toro rosso or the likes, and then get him onboard for 2016 or 2017 if he shows good progress.

Tbh, the team has the raw data of the drivers and they also want the best for McLaren - otherwise they loose their jobs ))). So my opinion does not really count for anything, and we must respect what the team decides. However, from my job as a consultant, I learned one thing: People dont do their job well". This counts even at the highest level of motorsport as can be seen by many examples this year and in previous years too.

Finally, on another note, I just loved what Ted said at the end of his notebook: "I havent yet asked Matiacci how does he feel about having two drivers both of whom got beaten by their teammates this season". Not only beaten btw, but destroyed....totally owned by their teammates. Let's see how their choice pans out though.

mitadumapaga Wrote:
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> I guess that what you want to say is: Button is
> not a bad choice, but Magnussen COULD be better.

What rookie couldn't be better. That's the situation of being a rookie. You are going to get better, or you shouldn't be there.

> True, I must give you that, Kevin MAY get faster
> in the future - but this is speculation.

This is stupid. He is ridiculously fast. What he doesn't have, is the ability to read the tyres right. He tends to either cook them, or not exploit them enough.

> So far he
> was simply not up to the speed that mclaren would
> really want from their line up next year.

Says who at McLaren? Or you are now a Macca spokesperson?

> Qualifying counts for nothing in the championship
> and beating arguably the slowest qualifier by a
> mere 10:9 is not something to be very proud of.

Button the slowest qualifier? You must be joking. He is a fine qualifier, but not exceptional. I could mention MANY who are worse.

> However, the majority of your arguments are either
> excuses (team gave him wrong input; other drivers
> had more experience); or pure speculations (e.g.
> see where Magnussen is in 7 years).

Nope. The first is a verifiable fact from official statements, second is an obvious truth, the third is a refutation of an absurd argument.

> Again, dont get me wrong, I also think that Kevin
> MAY grow into a great driver.

Backtracking from the man that would have dropped people like Bottas, Ricciardo, Kimi and Button from the grid.

> Thus, it is safer to
> let him drive for a middle level team - toro rosso
> or the likes, and then get him onboard for 2016 or
> 2017 if he shows good progress.

TBH, I would have preferred him in a lesser team this season, instead of Macca, but it was not to be, and if you turn down Macca (they approached him) who else is going to pick you up? Too much pressure and too much exposure from the start. Some rookies can handle it, but they almost always get slated by ignorant pundits like yourself. It was the same for JPM, who was viciously attacked and put down for his entire career on these very boards. I know, because I was there and I remember the venom.

> Tbh, the team has the raw data of the drivers and
> they also want the best for McLaren - otherwise
> they loose their jobs ))).

Indeed.

> So my opinion does
> not really count for anything, and we must respect
> what the team decides.

That is true.

> However, from my job as a
> consultant, I learned one thing: People dont do
> their job well

Tell me about it... I have had far too many experiences with that.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2014 02:17AM by Morbid.

Finally got my little time to write here

Firstly, awesome season overall. Mercedes' domination doesn't matter, the racing was superb in most tracks and the engines, while still odd-sounding, have got better. Technically-wise, F1 has little tweaking to do. Either get rid of freaking DRS or allow it for defensive use. A system I'd love to see is the driver being able to activate it once per lap within the 1s margin, but for both cars in the fight.

Anyway, back to the point. I'm glad Alonso is leaving. Not gonna lie, I hate the guy because of the 2007 crap, and I hated Ferrari for hiring him after that, but no one can deny his skills and his already mentioned ability to extract every single bhp of any car. If he does go to McLaren, and learns to behave, he's gonna be invaluable.

However, I still think there's no problem with keeping Jenson. He knows the McLaren guys well, the Honda guys love him, hell, the japanese love him. Dropping him would be a mistake. He's the kind of driver I'd like to set the foundations for a winning McLaren in 2016 with K-Mag and Vandoorne. As Jake pointed out, it's useless to compare Kevin now. As we say around here, "he's done his homework", he proved to be fast and has the room for improvement. Vandoorne is awesome, but another GP2 year coupled with friday outings won't hurt.

As for Vettel, well, when Kimi's first retirement was rumored in 2009, I really hoped Ferrari would call Seb. He was already a potential champion with lots of time ahead. Now he's a friggin' four-times champion. But I'm not sure this is the right time. Ferrari is not producing awesome cars lately, you saw that run-in between Alonso and Mr. Stevens (who by the way, really impressed me).

I hope Caterham can stay, backmarkers have the kind of value you don't notice until they're not there. However if they do make it, they'll have to design a car with 50 euro or so. And that won't work very well.



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps

Quote
smoglessbutton4
The four that McLaren are considering are likely to be Nando, JB, Mag and Vandoorne

Going from Dennis's interview on Saturday, they aren't considering Vandoorne yet. They were evaluating their "current race drivers" and "and everyone else's race performances as well". From that, I take it it's down to the current F1 grid, but there aren't any drivers available that I'd consider an improvement.

It seems that they're keen to keep Magnussen in the McLaren fold and place him back in a race seat later if they do decide to go with Alonso and Button. If the possibility of 3-car teams were to be true, it's clear to me what the team would be, but 3-car teams seems unlikely to happen next year.

I've sensed a fair bit of critism of Magussen, especially from planetf1.com. But I don't think much of it is warranted. I don't think they've viewed him fairly or objectively. Expecting a Hamilton type debut season was sheer insanity, for one thing Hamilton had extensive testing and a competive car. Magussen had a young driver day and a handful of pre season test days in what proved to be a mediocre car.

He put it on the podium in tricky conditions on his debut, which should speak volumes about his talent and he's matched the pace of Button from the very beginning. Ok, he's scored less points but much of that was caused by his inexperience and poor race craft where he was over agressive in wheel to wheel combat earning himself plenty of penalties. But this will improve with experience. Going forward he has more potential than Button, he's at the bottom of his curve whilst Button is at his peak and ready to crest the decline. Between the two Magussen is the choice which makes more sense.

Unfortunately Mclaren have chosen Alonso who despite his undoubted ability to drag a result out any car he's lumbered with has not really shown that he has what it takes to galvanise a team and move it forward. I really do believe that in his desperation for a 3rd championship he will run McLaren into the ground, Ferrari isn't exactly a good advert for his team leadership skills at present.

This is why I think Alonso back to Mclaren is an odd choice. Button would be the perfect team leader still, he knows McLaren, he knows Honda, he's still got the ability to win races if the machinery is capable. He's a team player and the perfect mentor for Magussen to take over the lead driver role when he's a little more ready to step aside, at which time would be an ideal time to promote Vandoorne.

glad Lewis won, but i feel sorry for Nico's car problems which denied him the chance to go foir it fairly, and denied us of a more interesting race, until Massa came along at the end.

can you imagine the media's response had the car problems happened to Lewis, everyone would have been saying they nobbled his car to let the German driver win for the German team (we know the car and engine are built in England so the bias would be the other way naturally if there was going to be any bias, which i don't believe there is/was). no consipiracy theories have arisen saying the German driver was purposely hindered, but the British press would have been full of vitriol had it happened to Lewis.

Anyway i think it was a just result, 3 DNFs/non-scoring races each and Lewis won more races so deserved it. Nico impressed me with his quali pace though.

Brundle said something post-race to this effect: "let's face it, Mercedes wanted Lewis to win, he's the "superstar" and more marketable asset, compared to Nico."

We didn't see the full clip of Alonso trying to get past Stevens, but my impression of it was that Stevens had actually yielded as he was waaay to the right and deep in turn 7 implying Alonso could overtake into the hairpin, but instead Alonso followed him off into the other track configuration, before then successfully overtaking. I don't think he was trying to hold him up.

fantastic turn around for Williams this season, hope they can keep their progress going and fight for wins soon.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

J i m Wrote:
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[...]

What can I say J i m? If I could have written it like that, I would already have done so.

Muks_C Wrote:
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> We didn't see the full clip of Alonso trying to
> get past Stevens, but my impression of it was that
> Stevens had actually yielded as he was waaay to
> the right and deep in turn 7 implying Alonso could
> overtake into the hairpin, but instead Alonso
> followed him off into the other track
> configuration, before then successfully
> overtaking. I don't think he was trying to hold
> him up.

I saw most of the scene. It was pretty much as you relate. What's even more striking, is the fact that Stevens was ahead of Alonso, due to the pit stop. Thus they were racing for position, and Stevens had every right to make it difficult for Alonso, and even to defend hard had he chosen to do so. He didn't though. He yielded in a slightly clumsy way and thus just didn't make it p!ss easy for Alonso. Apparently that was enough to set him off.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Stevens was just all over the place. I think Alonso was more WTF? frustration than actual anger.

To me it was proper badass Eddie Irvine style, sans the clumsiness and the ego. He was fighting for position, even though he had a double WDC in a Ferrari behind, he held his ground until he ultimately lost out. The guy did what he wanted, he showed himself to the world, and now to wait for a GP2 drive and maybe a reserve driver role. I'd certainly keep an eye on him.



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps

gav Wrote:
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> Stevens was just all over the place. I think
> Alonso was more WTF? frustration than actual
> anger.


[video=

]


Alonso: "Who is this #$!&£@???" (I can't actually make out what he is saying, but obviously it wasn't nice)
Engineer: "It's the new boy, the new boy, a lot to learn for him"
Alonso: "A lot, a lot to learn!"

There is no WTF for me in that. Alonso knew the roster for the race. He had plenty of time to figure out who this guy is, and even if he didn't, he knows the guy comes with no F1 experience. It is a given. So how can he be surprised? That is simply not possible. It's anger all right, that he just didn't make himself invisible and let Alonso through uncontested. Total entitlement IMHO.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 01:08PM by Morbid.