Official 2014 Japanese Grand Prix Thread #ForzaJules

I'm not even going to dignify that post with a meaningful response.

Why? I think it some rather fair points. Granted, the last one could be read as personal, but I was also really unsure on how you would want me to respond, so that you wouldn't rage at my reply. So those two things conflated into that remark.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 12:57PM by Morbid.

GPDA speaking to Autosport.com

Quote
Autosport, Alex Wurz, Chairman of the GPDA
Grand Prix Drivers' Association chairman Alex Wurz has warned against jumping to conclusions over Jules Bianchi's accident in Formula 1's Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka.

The Marussia driver remains in intensive care after suffering a severe head injury in Sunday's race.

But while Wurz and the GPDA want to learn the lessons of the accident as soon as possible, he stresses the need to follow the proper investigative process.

"Obviously, such a terrible accident throws up a lot of questions and opinions," said Wurz.

"By nature, we all like to have answers, conclusions and solutions as soon as possible.

"All of us drivers understand and also feel the need to investigate and discuss this matter.

"But we shall not jump to conclusions without having all evidence and information, and also having the chance to hear other parties' point of view."

Article in full:

[www.autosport.com]

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

I just wonder what will happen this week as many drivers already said the walls are too close to fast corners.

I just dont want to see a repeat of what happened in 1994 after Imola when so many changes were made.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 01:13PM by marcl.

Morbid Wrote:
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> An it was a freak accident. It was extremely
> unlikely and unusual. We haven't seen anything
> like this in years, if ever. When was the last
> time, we had a car seriously connect with a
> recovery vehicle?

20 years ago Martin Brundle crashed into the group of marshals who were removing Gianni Morbidelli's car at the same corner. He just missed the recovery vehicle but he broke marshal's leg:



So, remembering that rain is not very often at Suzuka, I can't say that this kind of accidents is extremely unusual. Moreover, it was predictable as far as we could see how F1 cars tends to go out or run off in the same place in wet conditions because of aquaplaning:
Interlagos 2003, 4 cars in 1 place:

Nurburgring 2007 with a huge mess at the 1st corner.

Malaysia 2001 and everyone fails to pass the last turn at 3:35




Bianchi was on worn intermediate tyres and you do not need to be Einstein to understand why he crashed at the same place where Sutil did. It was predictible as I said, and that's why SC was supposed to appear straight after Sutil's crash.

___________________________________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here:[docs.google.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 01:56PM by Soutsen.

So what you are saying is, that it hasn't happened, but you could find situations that you considered similar. Which means, it was extremely unlikely and unusual. Similar things, yes could happen. That thing, not happened since god knows when.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 02:06PM by Morbid.

This came to my mind, although this was just plain stupidity




As I expected, the Canopy Cockpit debate has arisen again. And I still think it would be difficult to come up with an efficient system. There's a good chance of a driver getting trapped. I know you can install a system similar to fighter planes, and have the canopy just shot away, but remember that in a fighter plane you do that before crashing, while in F1 you'd be doing it after crashing, and what if the mechanism broke and the car's on fire? It is possible. So what would be the next stage, seats that eject with a parachute?

On the upside, those FIA tests proved it is hard and safe, and in an aerodynamic point of view, it makes a lot of sense.



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps

I have found another example. Franz Engstler hit a recovery vehicle in Porto in 2013. Mind you, the safety car had already been deployed, and exactly as argued here, the entire grid ignored yellow flag conditions and rushed to catch up to the SC, which caused this situation.






As you can see, there is even another car that spins in that clip.

It seems to be a Franz Engstler thing, as he crashed into the SC whilst leading the race in Pau in 2009.





Edit: damn these stupid tags...

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 03:04PM by Morbid.

This could have been worse.





They was also an Indy Car races years and years ago where they crashed into a truck on the track, was probably over 10 years ago now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 03:06PM by marcl.

Yeah, that was Heidfeld crashing into the medical car in warm up even though the session had been red flagged. I saw the clip that you are thinking of marcl. It looks very similar to the Franz Engstler example I gave. I found it in this compilation of stupid moments with safety cars @ 6 minutes and 53 seconds. It seems SC are a much bigger hazard in racing than recovery vehicles.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Nah thats not the one.

It was on a street track and michael A drove into the back of it coming round a blind corner and Mario went into the back of him.

People have also pointed out that lifting under yellows on a corner can also cause a car to snap away as you lose downforce.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 04:05PM by marcl.

So Morbid's status as a troll terribly backfires :D
This time (and only this time :-P) I think it's unjustified. The points made from you are mostly valid, although I wouldn't go as far and compare F1 to Horse Riding or MotoGP or the like. Protection on two wheels without a cockpit isn't and is never going to be anywhere near the protection drivers have in F1.

I hate me for saying this but Yellow Flags, especially Double Waved Yellow, means "slow down!". Nobody wants to blame Jules Bianchi for obvious reasons, but he was driving around that corner fast. #ForzaJules

The second vid of Engstler at Pau is not valid for this discussion. It shows Engstler being crashed into by the Safety Car, not the other way round. The actions of the SC-driver weren't acceptable at all. First video, yes.

The similarities between Suzuka 1994 and 2014 are scary. However please don't ignore that Brundle got into trouble for ignoring the yellow flags afterwards.


Everyone is raging about Race Control should have brought the Safety Car. But what about some other situations?
[www.youtube.com]
One linked, search others for yourself. There are MANY situations where Marshalls and JCBs come out on the track without the SC being deployed. If it wasn't for Bianchi's big crash, no one would be crying for a Safety Car after Sutil crashed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 04:06PM by xSilvermanx.

The family have just said this is the injury he has

diffuse axonal injury

[en.wikipedia.org]

Chances are he will never wake up again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 04:17PM by marcl.

xSilvermanx Wrote:
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> So Morbid's status as a troll terribly backfires
> :D

I have the status of troll? I didn't know. I can assure you, I don't troll any boards. In fact, I don't even like conflict. I just speak my mind the way I see it.

> This time (and only this time :-P) I think it's
> unjustified. The points made from you are mostly
> valid, although I wouldn't go as far and compare
> F1 to Horse Riding or MotoGP or the like.
> Protection on two wheels without a cockpit isn't
> and is never going to be anywhere near the
> protection drivers have in F1.

I don't mind conceding that. The point was not to make a 1:1 comparison, because that is obviously impossible. The point was to jolt the perspective, by shedding light on it in new ways.

> I hate me for saying this but Yellow Flags,
> especially Double Waved Yellow, means "slow
> down!". Nobody wants to blame Jules Bianchi for
> obvious reasons, but he was driving around that
> corner fast. #ForzaJules

It does mean slow down. And there is little point in point the finger at Bianchi, as it seems almost every driver was doing the same thing as he was. And unfortunately have good reason to do so.

> The second vid of Engstler at Pau is not valid for
> this discussion. It shows Engstler being crashed
> into by the Safety Car, not the other way round.
> The actions of the SC-driver weren't acceptable at
> all. First video, yes.

I agree that the SC driver was appalling. But Engstler knew he was under full course yellow. As you can see the SC sign was out combined with yellow flags at the start line, and there where yellow flags at the previous posts as well, yet he went through the first corner at 184 kph! That is not what you do, when there is a full course yellow.

> The similarities between Suzuka 1994 and 2014 are
> scary. However please don't ignore that Brundle
> got into trouble for ignoring the yellow flags
> afterwards.
>
>
> Everyone is raging about Race Control should have
> brought the Safety Car. But what about some other
> situations?
> [www.youtube.com]
> One linked, search others for yourself. There are
> MANY situations where Marshalls and JCBs come out
> on the track without the SC being deployed. If it
> wasn't for Bianchi's big crash, no one would be
> crying for a Safety Car after Sutil crashed.

Agreed.

marcl Wrote:
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> The family have just said this is the injury he
> has
>
> diffuse axonal injury
>
> [en.wikipedia.org]
>
>
> Chances are he will never wake up again.

Damn... that is pretty god damn bad

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 04:36PM by Morbid.

We have lost a real talent and a driver that was getting better and better and I am sure a future Ferrari driver.

If he ever does wake up there is no way he will ever be able to drive again, he will be lucky to even talk again. Its such a shame He could be one of the 10% that do recover you never know. I mean look at MS everyone wrote him off and his family claim he is recovering.

Its the car stopping that caused this and not actually the JCB, from whats being said his head did not even hit the JCB. Looks like the high chassis saved his life as such.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 05:03PM by marcl.

Oh damn.

Crossing everything that it's not in the severe category.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 04:45PM by gav.

I can't find any reports on the degree of the diagnosis. Mild and moderate have good recovery rates, but I am pretty sure we can exclude mild. He has at least three things going for him: he is young, incredibly fit and top grade medical care was administered quickly, so all hope is not lost.

I found a better article on the topic than wiki, but it is still a somber read:

[www.brainandspinalcord.org]

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Yeah they are not saying the degree at the moment, its meant to be hard to work out from what is being said.

Its just a time thing now where they wait and see and keep treating him.

That's horrible news I imagine they'll keep him in an induced coma anyway for some time yet to give his brain the best chance to heal.
Hopefully he can still wake up and recover, fingers crossed.

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I know this is not really important but it sounds like they are going to keep his car empty this weekend, there was a story Rossi was going to drive but this no longer looks the case but he will take over the car for the rest of the year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2014 06:38PM by marcl.