Official 2014 Italian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS with minimal downforce***
Posted by EC83
gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Well that was weird...
>
> Classic wheel-to-wheel action = penalty
> Slicing opponent's tyre = OK
>
>
> We don't know what was said in the drivers
> briefing, but my view on this was Bottas gave
> Magnussen plenty of space earlier in the race when
> Magnussen overtook him, but Magnussen just drove
> him off when the opposite was true.
>
> It's not a boy's sport, but certainly the respect
> wasn't mutual today. Perhaps a penalty was a
> touch harsh, but he chose to ignore the sporting
> option.
It's a lot easier to be generous when you have a 20-30 kph advantage in overtaking. One of them is an established driver with a secure contract, the other is not. So some of that is a result of the performance and other conditions that the two racers had to deal with. But if you want to press the issue, that there was an unequality in sporting graciousness, I don't mind allowing you that. But that is for the drivers to discuss after the race. I'd still hold it is not up to the FIA to police sporting generousitity, but actual incidents. After all, they didn't even review the incident between Grosjean and Bianchi, and that was a regular dive-bomb that resulted in contact.
IMHO, this is not crowding, and if it is, we are going to have a lot more boring races in the future:
> It was odd with Button/Perez as it could be viewed
> the same way, but I guess as Perez came out ahead
> anyway it was less of an issue (it could be argued
> Perez gained an advantage cutting the chicane
> though - I don't think he'd have been able to make
> the chicane with the speed he was carrying with
> Button on the inside). Maybe they viewed it that
> neither gained an advantage and they cancelled
> themselves out somewhat.
One could add the Ricciardo/Alonso battle too. The only difference was the overtaking car decided to use the brake instead of going off track, which was an option that was equally open to Bottas.
It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Well that was weird...
>
> Classic wheel-to-wheel action = penalty
> Slicing opponent's tyre = OK
>
>
> We don't know what was said in the drivers
> briefing, but my view on this was Bottas gave
> Magnussen plenty of space earlier in the race when
> Magnussen overtook him, but Magnussen just drove
> him off when the opposite was true.
>
> It's not a boy's sport, but certainly the respect
> wasn't mutual today. Perhaps a penalty was a
> touch harsh, but he chose to ignore the sporting
> option.
It's a lot easier to be generous when you have a 20-30 kph advantage in overtaking. One of them is an established driver with a secure contract, the other is not. So some of that is a result of the performance and other conditions that the two racers had to deal with. But if you want to press the issue, that there was an unequality in sporting graciousness, I don't mind allowing you that. But that is for the drivers to discuss after the race. I'd still hold it is not up to the FIA to police sporting generousitity, but actual incidents. After all, they didn't even review the incident between Grosjean and Bianchi, and that was a regular dive-bomb that resulted in contact.
IMHO, this is not crowding, and if it is, we are going to have a lot more boring races in the future:
> It was odd with Button/Perez as it could be viewed
> the same way, but I guess as Perez came out ahead
> anyway it was less of an issue (it could be argued
> Perez gained an advantage cutting the chicane
> though - I don't think he'd have been able to make
> the chicane with the speed he was carrying with
> Button on the inside). Maybe they viewed it that
> neither gained an advantage and they cancelled
> themselves out somewhat.
One could add the Ricciardo/Alonso battle too. The only difference was the overtaking car decided to use the brake instead of going off track, which was an option that was equally open to Bottas.
It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.
Delighted for Massa, dissapointed for Ferrari and mind-blowed by Bottas.
Massa finally did what he should've done ages ago: take advantage of his machinery. He could have had plenty of podiums but either his mistakes, strategy or sheer bad luck have kept him from being higher up in the WDC. He might still be behind his teammate, but it's absolutely nothing like Ferrari. He's far closer here.
Sad for Ferrari, I really don't like Alonso but I was gutted to see him let down by the car for the first time in 4 years. At least Kimi managed to score two points, but that's an unacceptable performance in Monza. The F14T is a true heir to the F92A.
And oh my f*****g god, what was that white thing? It's Bottas! His pace was unbelievable mid-race, shame the harder tyres didn't suit the car. And mainly, shame he had such a terrible start. He could take advice from Massa, an already acknowledged awesome starter, even after his crash. But Valtteri is serious stuff. Will Williams end its 17-year drought?
As for Mags, it was just good ol' hard racing. Had this happened in IndyCar, they would've said "Deal with it"
Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps
Massa finally did what he should've done ages ago: take advantage of his machinery. He could have had plenty of podiums but either his mistakes, strategy or sheer bad luck have kept him from being higher up in the WDC. He might still be behind his teammate, but it's absolutely nothing like Ferrari. He's far closer here.
Sad for Ferrari, I really don't like Alonso but I was gutted to see him let down by the car for the first time in 4 years. At least Kimi managed to score two points, but that's an unacceptable performance in Monza. The F14T is a true heir to the F92A.
And oh my f*****g god, what was that white thing? It's Bottas! His pace was unbelievable mid-race, shame the harder tyres didn't suit the car. And mainly, shame he had such a terrible start. He could take advice from Massa, an already acknowledged awesome starter, even after his crash. But Valtteri is serious stuff. Will Williams end its 17-year drought?
As for Mags, it was just good ol' hard racing. Had this happened in IndyCar, they would've said "Deal with it"
Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps
Before his hero save, Kvyat drove a hell of a race from last to a likely points finish. That lad keeps reminding me how wrong I was about him. Proof that not all pay drivers are bad, maybe in some years he'll be able to switch from pay to paid.
Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps
Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps
Pretty good race again, it's been an excellent season for the actual racing so far.
So, it seems that the Mercs held back the bickering long enough to capitalise on the natural car advantage and claim the corporate 1-2. Hamilton was simply plainly quicker than Rosberg this weekend, but I disagree that Rosberg hasn't made mistakes this year, he's actually made quite a few pressure mistakes, only that so far they haven't cost him.
It's nice that Massa finally got a clean race and result in the bag if only for his confidence, having both Williams up at the sharp end will be useful in the race with Ferrari for 3rd in the constructors. It was a good recovery drive by Bottas, slightly helped by the straight line speed advantage of the Williams but he still had to make it count. Only really Magussen put up a defence. (The others moved early and he simply waltzed through on the over speed).
Magussen ought to have a little chat with Grosjean and Perez, for he seems to be getting the brunt of the peer criticism/penalties at the moment. I think his chicane incident with Bottas was naughty but not really worthy of the penalty in the context of the more lenient race control of late, but as DC & McNish pointed out it's the late and sudden moves deep into the braking zones which are more worrisome. I'm sure he'll come good soon though, the potential is there for all to see and he seems to have the measure of Button for the last few weekends.
Superb save by Kyvat, and an excellent performance in general, his reflexes saved what could have been a horrific accident, whilst Gutierrez was simply and stupidly clumsy for minimal reason.
Yet another exemplary drive by Riccardo... Those overtaking moves in a car which was supposed to be off the pace of all the Merc cars, just emense. Driver of the day, infact he along with Bottas have been the drivers of the season so far for me.
So, it seems that the Mercs held back the bickering long enough to capitalise on the natural car advantage and claim the corporate 1-2. Hamilton was simply plainly quicker than Rosberg this weekend, but I disagree that Rosberg hasn't made mistakes this year, he's actually made quite a few pressure mistakes, only that so far they haven't cost him.
It's nice that Massa finally got a clean race and result in the bag if only for his confidence, having both Williams up at the sharp end will be useful in the race with Ferrari for 3rd in the constructors. It was a good recovery drive by Bottas, slightly helped by the straight line speed advantage of the Williams but he still had to make it count. Only really Magussen put up a defence. (The others moved early and he simply waltzed through on the over speed).
Magussen ought to have a little chat with Grosjean and Perez, for he seems to be getting the brunt of the peer criticism/penalties at the moment. I think his chicane incident with Bottas was naughty but not really worthy of the penalty in the context of the more lenient race control of late, but as DC & McNish pointed out it's the late and sudden moves deep into the braking zones which are more worrisome. I'm sure he'll come good soon though, the potential is there for all to see and he seems to have the measure of Button for the last few weekends.
Superb save by Kyvat, and an excellent performance in general, his reflexes saved what could have been a horrific accident, whilst Gutierrez was simply and stupidly clumsy for minimal reason.
Yet another exemplary drive by Riccardo... Those overtaking moves in a car which was supposed to be off the pace of all the Merc cars, just emense. Driver of the day, infact he along with Bottas have been the drivers of the season so far for me.
Cracking race. This season just keeps churning out thrillers. Has Formula 1 ever prod cues better racing? Not in my time.
Morbid, your mentioned Seb earlier, he actually lost out badly late on as he was the first of the front runners to stop for tyres. Lap 19 I think it was. Ricciardo stopped around seven laps later and took it easy early in the stint so he could blitz late on, as he did so successfully. By that stage Vettel's tyres were stuffed and he actually did well to keep Button at bay. Ricciardo though was very accomplished. Took a tricky strategy and pulled it off to distinction,
Jim, agree with your points almost universally across the board. Valtteri and Dan have been the revelations of the season. This time last year Bottas was still yet to score points in F1. It's quite incredible really. Consider K-Mag's evident promise and Vandoorne and Lello in GP2 and Formula 1's future looks bright.
It's late and I've got a long haul drive back from Milan to face in a few hours so I'm not sure if it has been mentioned but did anyone else watch Kvyat?
Started plum last but best Vergne and only just missed out on points after that big moment down at the Rettifilio. That car control was quite something. The lads quiet, but very, very good. Russian motorsport finally has it poster boy.
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
Morbid, your mentioned Seb earlier, he actually lost out badly late on as he was the first of the front runners to stop for tyres. Lap 19 I think it was. Ricciardo stopped around seven laps later and took it easy early in the stint so he could blitz late on, as he did so successfully. By that stage Vettel's tyres were stuffed and he actually did well to keep Button at bay. Ricciardo though was very accomplished. Took a tricky strategy and pulled it off to distinction,
Jim, agree with your points almost universally across the board. Valtteri and Dan have been the revelations of the season. This time last year Bottas was still yet to score points in F1. It's quite incredible really. Consider K-Mag's evident promise and Vandoorne and Lello in GP2 and Formula 1's future looks bright.
It's late and I've got a long haul drive back from Milan to face in a few hours so I'm not sure if it has been mentioned but did anyone else watch Kvyat?
Started plum last but best Vergne and only just missed out on points after that big moment down at the Rettifilio. That car control was quite something. The lads quiet, but very, very good. Russian motorsport finally has it poster boy.
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
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