Formula One 2015 (and beyond)

Rumour has it that Williams spent heavily and made financial losses in their investments for restructuring the team, reasoning that it's better to spend and hope the performance gain pays off, instead of saving money and slowly falling into the clutches of Caterham.

They made loses of around 20 million pounds over the first six months of 2014, it's all in their accounts.

As you say the money has been spent to drive Williams up the grid an has so far worked out splendidly.

Some of those losses can be written off as they are a result of the PDVSA payoff, and won't be an annual issue.

Remember that power units are now three times as expensive and it doesn't look so bad.

Williams are also pretty sure of attracting some new sponsors ahead of 2015 so they'll be fine.

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Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

Williams stand to recoup 17 million from their position in the championship alone.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Hi Morbid,

I have always been curious about the pay off position in the final standings of a F1 season. Could you post how the pay offs are distributed from the 1st to the 11th team ?


Thank you

It's pretty complicated.

I have tried to find the actual percentage scales for some of the money, but I failed.

However, I think these picture explains it better in pure numbers, than I can do in plain text.

Do remember, that the rights owners take about half the money, and then the teams get to share.



In 2011, this is how the 700 million USD pot was divided.



Following the same pattern, you get this for 2013:



Do note, that the "special money" for Ferrari is not factored in for the 2013 calculations. This because it is unknown if it was the same size as 2011. It is believed to be more now.

So that year, Ferrari was the team that got the most money, and before any team got anything, they already had a larger slice of money than Marussia.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 03:30PM by Morbid.

that is a fascinating piece of info.

thanks a lot

That's part of the problem really. The greed of certain parties. Bernie via the FOM with race fees and Broadcasting rights, and then some of the teams putting themselves above F1, namely Ferrari but also Red Bull since they started winning consistently.

The mid grid teams actually do a pretty good job when you consider how comparatively little resource they have, force India and Sauber have been particularly impressive.

McLaren have been embarrassing the past two seasons.

Jim, I cannot agree more with you.

Indeed, when I saw Force India until mid season and how they were getting result after result, whereas mclaren were nowhere, I asked myself -what is McLaren doing with all the money, experience, resources and human power that they have?? Same when I watched Sauber back in 2012.

The only explanation that I have is that the bigger an organization, and the more established one, the more difficult it is to change things quickly and effectively - there are always internal perssures, employee's insatisfaction, struggles for power etc. Then there is the pressure from outside, such as fans expectation, media etc.So to some extent, I believe, this explains why teams such as BMW, Ferrari, McLaren and even Williams struggled with the changes over the years. Once an organization becomes successful for a longer period of time, then inertia build up, and once things change, you realize you were not developing new skills (or in more economic terms core competencies and thus competitive advantages).

Indeed, if you listen to analysis of specialists everyone points the organizational structure as the main weakness of Ferrari.

J i m Wrote:
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> So.. Recent announcements and rumours call for a recap

Mercedes

#44 - Lewis Hamilton
#6 - Nico Rosberg

> It's looking more likely that Britney and Lewis will tolerate each other into next year and they're both under contract. Lauda has ruled out taking on Alonso.

Red Bull - Renault

#3 - Daniel Ricciardo
#26 - Danill Kvyat

> Vettel has jumped ship, Vergne has be been given the mother of all snubs as has Alonso for that matter and Young Kyvat has won the promotion.

Ferrari

#5 - Sebastian Vettel
#7 - Kimi Raikkonen

> Alonso has effectively cried "@#$%& this @#$%&" and is basically out of there. Red Bull have very considerately taken it upon themselves to effectively confirm what everyone would be naturally assuming anyway. Seb wants to be mini Schumi.

Williams - Mercedes

#77 - Valtteri Bottas
#19 - Felipe Massa

> Got the announcement out of the way at Monza, keeping status quo.

McLaren - Honda

#14 Fernando Alonso?
Magussen / Button??

> McLaren are making no secret that they are trying to woo Alonso with open arms and possibly an open Honda wallet as well. It does seem evermore likely that he's on his way back to Woking. Who to partner him? Could even Vettel confound the expectations and turn up at winter testing wearing grey instead of rosa corsa? Will either Magussen or Button earn a reprieve? Might Alonso take a sabactical and let Button do all the legwork?

Force India - Mercedes

#27 - Nico Hulkenberg
#11 - Sergio Perez

> * Note, Hulkenberg has multi year deal, team are happy with current line up, although according to Eddie Jordan apparently the Hulk has an offer to go to sportscars with Porsche.

Toro Rosso - Renault

#?? - Max Verstappen
#?? - Carlos Sainz Jr?

> They had the lineup all done and dusted, but Vettel has untimely created a vacancy at RBR which has been granted to Kyvat. Vergne won't be amused but logic suggests that Sainz ought to get the resultant STR vacancy although this is yet to be confirmed.

Lotus - Mercedes?

#8 - Romain Grosjean
#13 - Pastor Maldonaldo

> PDVSA obviously don't mind paying the Maldonaldo repair bills as he's confirmed for next year despite a dud season. I get the impression that Grosjean is yearning for a better car but there doesn't appear to be any likely options for him except to stay at "Lotus".

Marussia - Ferrari

#17 Jules Bianchi
#4 - Max Chilton?

> Ferrari support (or politics) should probably keep Bianchi in that seat. Chilton could yet be outbid by the likes of Alex Rossi, Will Stevens or anyone who cares to spend more than Daddy.

Sauber - Ferrari

> There are some serious doubts about Sauber even being in F1 next year, as they're still lacking the investment. De Silvera's backers have legged it and the so called Russian deal from last year still doesn't seem likely to be happening. Whatever happens it's going to be a very lean team next year.

Caterham - Renault

> Serious clusterfuck of an team right now even having a spot of trouble with bailiffs who care little for which company named 'Caterham' they seize property from. They've been trying to auction off Kobayashi's seat race by race for half a season now, only they can't even manage to do that properly.

> ---

> Hass not ready until 2016
> Other new team not yet confirmed and probably won't be.

The Lotus-Mercedes deal is now official.

As pointed out by someone on Twitter, the ex-works Honda team is now supplying the ex-works Renault team with Mercedes engines.

By the way, I think Carlos Sainz Jr. would not be candidate for Toro Rosso 2015 in running for Kvyat's seat, Marko said that the best decision of the driver would take Toro Rosso, maybe Lynn or Gasly?

It will be interesting to see how far Lotus can recover towards the front again. I'm not convinced that this year's poor form is entirely down to the engine so wouldn't assume an automatic return to 2012/13 form and they did loose a lot of good people last year. But at least Grosjean has reason to be hopeful. I'd like to see him have a proper crack at a win.

Toro Rosso have admitted that Sainz is the favourite to partner Verstappen but they haven't ruled out Gasly or Lynn.

Also, as depressing as it seems to think of it, assuming they survive.. I can't help but wonder who Maurussia will field. Even if Jules recovers it's not going to be soon and it's highly unlikely that he'd be able to continue his racing career. So there's current testers Rossi and Stevens... but what of the relationship with Ferrari? Could they view this as an opportunity to place Marciello in an F1 race seat?

J i m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It will be interesting to see how far Lotus can
> recover towards the front again. I'm not convinced
> that this year's poor form is entirely down to the
> engine so wouldn't assume an automatic return to
> 2012/13 form and they did loose a lot of good
> people last year. But at least Grosjean has reason
> to be hopeful. I'd like to see him have a proper
> crack at a win.
>
> Toro Rosso have admitted that Sainz is the
> favourite to partner Verstappen but they haven't
> ruled out Gasly or Lynn.
>

The problem with the Lotus is that the diffuser has a tendency to stall and this unsettles the car under breaking. This was remedied somewhat with the FRIC suspension, but after the hasty removal of the system the E22 has suffered a re-occurrence of this. This partially explains why Grosjean was unable to get the car through the first chicane at Monza; he was pushing the brake pedal at what should have been the braking zone but the loss of downforce and grip due to the diffuser issues resulted in a handful of lock-ups. The team have stated that they know how to fix this for next season, but it's too ingrained in the current design to fully fix. Mercedes would be a huge boon to the team though; Williams have stated that Merc offer a lot more technical support and guidance compared to Renault, so Lotus should be in a good place with regards to the powertrain.

With regards to Toro Rosso, I don't quite know why they'd put Gasly in ahead of Sainz Jr especially since Carlos more or less has the FR3.5 championship sewn up and Gasly's a way behind. Verstappen's shown he can jump straight into an F1 car, but I think Gasly needs one more year of FR or GP2 to get prepared. Lynn's been awesome in GP3, but I think FR3.5 calls.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2014 10:49PM by Incident 2k9.

A couple of little hints that Force India will be going Honda if not next season then for 2016. McLaren and Force India were the only teams opposing a test of 2015 tyres after Abu Dhabi and now discussing a possible engine unfreeze for next season the only Mercedes teams not to vote against were McLaren and Force India. Surely it would be in Force India's interests to follow Mercedes, Williams and Lotus in supporting a freeze?

I've not seen any rumours of it yet, but putting two and two together, what number am I getting? Am I way off?

J i m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It will be interesting to see how far Lotus can
> recover towards the front again. I'm not convinced
> that this year's poor form is entirely down to the
> engine so wouldn't assume an automatic return to
> 2012/13 form and they did loose a lot of good
> people last year.

I think they'll still struggle. As McLaren have shown, the Mercedes engine doesn't guarantee a competitive package, and the Lotus is a bitch of a chassis and hasn't really developed this year.
If they think they're going to suddenly make major progress, they're in for a shock when they turn up in Melbourne.
It'll probably take them 2-3 seasons to get near their 2013 form level again.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2014 07:13PM by EC83.

I don't expect Lotus to make a big step over the winter, but neither can it be ruled out. It's not completely unusual for teams to have extremely uncompetitive cars one year and then really quite good ones the next.

A couple of examples;

In 2008, Honda had a car that struggled to score points at all. The very next year as Brawn they won the championships. Whilst it's true that Honda resources helped in the initial design of the car with the new era regulations.. After Honda withdrew the team hit the track very late whilst the rescue deal was completed, and they had less resources to then maintain the development through the season.

Similarly Williams had a terrible 2013 and only scored points on two occasions and yet this year they often have the second fastest overall package and so far they seem to have scored points in every single race.

So it can be done. And whilst Lotus will have their work cut out to catch up for next year, the Enstone team have historically had a good depth of engineering strength. They rarely stay in the lower half of the grid for long.

Given that their entire participation in 2014 was called into question over the winter, and with the number of staff they lost (and key staff too), they were always going to struggle.

Someone mentioned in Japan that they've apparently got an inherent flaw in the car were the diffuser stalls under braking, and it can't be fixed with the current car (or perhaps wasn't worth the effort?).

They'll be much stronger next year, and I expect they would have been even without the switch to Mercedes.

Erratic diffuser that can't be fixed and arguably the worst engine on the grid... what else was there to do, than to scrap the season?

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

So, apparently no more Peraltada when they return to Mexico next season. [www.formel1.de]
Sorry for the german article, too lazy to look for an english one

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Some mods
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They were never, ever going to use the peraltada. It would have been OK if they could extend the run off, but there's a bloody great big highway behind it. It was always going to use the old Indycar track. Without the peraltada it's just another track, only hot and dusty with stupidly big bumps (I seem to recall it was built on reclaimed swamp land) and a few flowing esses, which sadly I feel will be sanitised with a staggering amount of tarmac run offs (as you can see in the video), taking all of the challenge away. While I yearn for classic, traditional tracks, this has never been one of them.

As an aside, that's got to be the worst promotional video seen in a long, long time. I mean, at the end that Ferrari is floating in midair. On grid I count at least 4 Force Indias, 4 Ferrari's, no Mercedes and no 2014 cars. How hard can it be?

I know a lot of people don't think the Mexican GP will happen, and if this is the standard and effort that's going to be used throughout the process, they're right.