Official 2014 Belgian Grand Prix thread ***SPOILERS with monkey seats***

Tbh I think Lewis and loads of people put him under so much pressure this year.

He moved to Merc for 2014, everyone said it would be his year in the best car etc. Nico we all knew was not a slow driver but not many expected him to keep up as in the past he has not managed to go flat out a whole race. The year started well with a pole than bang 0 points, Lewis then destoyed Nico at Sepang but then it was close again.

After Monaco I think Lewis has been on the back foot and Nico has taken the march on him.

Mistake in quali by lewis I feel have been caused by himself (apart from germany and Hungry), again too much pressure.

Before Spa I put money on Lewis but now I think it will be Nico. yes one win for Lewis and DNF for Nico brings it back round but lets be honest the car most likly to fail is car 44.

However it all depends what Merc now do, I actually do not think they will do anything at all.

For me I though MS should retire as I thought he was past it and crashes like in Sepang were due to old age and no longer being able to judge speeds anymore. Seeing how Nico has gone against Lewis shows MS was doing a good job, but was Nico really pushing like he is now? We will never know tbh.

marcl schrieb:
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> What I meant was if Lewis and Nico keep on messing
> up races than Dan could get in there.
>
> Yes Nico closed in on new tyres, but could he pass
> Vettel in the race? nope. Nico should have won in
> Spa but blew it by locking up trying to pass
> vettel.
>
> Lewis bad luck was at Australia, Canada (the only
> reason Nico kept going was learning from Lewis
> not), Germany, Hungry, Spa.
>
> Lewis had been fastest all weekend in Hungry and
> you cannot say the safty car put it back to zero
> as that is not the case at all. Lewis could have
> been miles ahead and passed the STR unlike Nico
> who could not. The race could have been totally
> different.
>
> We are only talking a few points in Germany and
> Hungry but he still could have scored better in
> these races.
>
> He has also made a few errors, Austria the biggest
> tbh where he cost himself pole and probably the
> win.
>
> He has also had peoblems in practice sessions,
> Nico has not.

Those are some valid points you make. indeed missing practice sessions could prove very costly nowadays. Especially FP2.

However, I guess we will have to agree on different opinions on this one:


> Yes Nico closed in on new tyres, but could he pass
> Vettel in the race? nope.

I do not know why people keep pounding on how much weaker a racer nico is compared to LH. Those people boost their arguments with NR vs. JEV in Hungary and NR vs. SV in Spa. I am not trying to defend Nico, but my personal view is that in Hungary he was on older tyres than JEV and on the supposedly much slower harder tyre. To add to his misery, his brakes were not in optimal shape - I remember very well how NR could have had a go at JEV into T1 in Hungary, but backed off surprisingly. And to add to all those facts, let's be honest - hungary is a god damn difficult track to overtake. Lewis started from the pit - I bet his setup was optimized for overtaking and Rosberg'S was not. Why should it be - he started from pole. Finally, no one pointed out that Lewis failed to pass alonso, although alonso's tyres were in pathetic shape.

Based on all those facts I refuse to accept an argument that lewis is a better racer, because nico failed to overtake JEV in Hungary (although it was indeed painful watching him drive behind for 15 or so laps).

The same can be applied to NR vs. SV in Spa. First, Vettel had fresher tyres (not quite sure. Second, he had the tyre compound that was 1,8-2,0 sec. / lap faster than the prime on Rosberg's car. Finally, this red bull was a WOW on those straights. I mean, both RBRs passed other cars as if the other cars were stopped. Even the mighty williams (remember how easily bottas overtook people) struggled to get past the RBR of vettel

Again your missing what I mean. Nico could not pass Vettel due to the straight line speed of the RBR car. Then he got to close and messed it up under braking for the bus stop meaning he had to stop early and that is where I feel he lost the race. rather than just go straight on Nico tried to slow down to make the corner, he should have given up the move and protect his tyres.

Hungry I thought Nico was poor, I think the whole race he was poor and sat behind cars way to long. Yes he had a huge lead when the safety car came out but thats racing it happens, he just then failed to make much progress.

Lewis was still behind Nico after the safety car but jumped him when Nico pitted as Lewis was able to get past the STR and Vettel spun and lewis was faster. Merc then totally messed up and should have put Lewis on the same strategy as Nico and not kept him out. Lewis was ahead of Nico when they were level on pit stops but they then put nico on softs and lewis on the harder tyres pitted Nico again but not Lewis. Merc actually blew the race themselves, and they caused the situation with team orders.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2014 06:06PM by marcl.

Hi marcl,

i believe that I was able to get your message. And I fully agree that Nico made a mistake when trying to overtake vettel - big mistake, which could have ended as vettel vs button - esque in 2010. I also agree that some people will see nicos race in Hugnary as poor especially for his inability to overtake JEV.

What I mean is that to me neither of those should be a firm ground to buld an argument that Rosberg is a worse racer than Lewis - when it comes to overtaking. I pointed out above why. But I also fully udnerstand the opposite opinion - the whole thing just allows for interpretation (neither argument is as straightforward as to be 100% proveable).

Mercedes asks twitter if team orders should be employed or should drivers be allowed to continue to race .......

[edition.cnn.com]


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group

Saw that Tweet from them earlier on myself.

Really, their first priority for now must be to squash the developing challenge from Ricciardo. He's come out of effectively nowhere and started a potentially dangerous charge.
Mercedes have one more track where they should definitely be dominant, before we go to tracks where RedBull will be pushing them harder anyway.
One dominant result(Like a 1-2 finish) would probably be enough to put the title out of Ricciardo's reach.
With double points available at the final race, a few more further behind for Lewis at this stage wouldn't overly hurt his chances.

If I was Mercedes, I'd be keen to ensure one of my drivers wins it. Purely with that in mind, for Monza at least, I'd be wanting a 1-2 finish with Rosberg winning and Lewis second. After that? Let them race again.


Morbid Wrote:
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> What's the point of letting them race, if you have
> already stacked the deck in such a fashion?

For someone who seems to label people illiterate whenever they don't share your opinion on something, this is a pretty stupid question to ask. If you'd actually bothered to read my post properly you'd already know the answer. Try learning to read, eh?

(Posted as an edit because this matter wasn't worthy of a post in its own right.)


And by the way, Nico didn't punt MS into a spin in 2010. Clearly your hatred of the guy is affecting your common sense.

---

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2015 10:55PM by EC83.

Isaint Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mercedes asks twitter if team orders should be
> employed or should drivers be allowed to continue
> to race .......
>
> [edition.cnn.com]
> /formula-one-mercedes-twitter/index.html?hpt=hp_c4

Just as I thought, they have no idea what to do. I can't imagine this would ever have happened under Ross Brawn.

EC83 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I was Mercedes, I'd be keen to ensure one of my
> drivers wins it. Purely with that in mind, for
> Monza at least, I'd be wanting a 1-2 finish with
> Rosberg winning and Lewis second. After that? Let
> them race again.

What's the point of letting them race, if you have already stacked the deck in such a fashion? I don't think that would do anything to alleviate the harsh exchanges between LH and NR fans. You'd just swap the topic from LH/NR being good/bad, to being disingenuous on the part of Merc. The brand damage would still be there. Moreover, it would be targeted directly at the team, and not at the drivers themselves as it is now. IMHO, that is worse for Merc, not better, if you are thinking of their F1 engagement as a vehicle for sales, which it arguably is. So, once you have imposed team orders, and they have been recognized by the drivers, you might as well employ team orders throughout the rest of the season. Then you get certainty, and you don't get an inevitable backlash of having a race free policy, that rested on favouritism and is open to the critique, that it always was.

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2014 11:34AM by Morbid.

I am not a fan of team orders and I dont think Nico should be dropped for a race.

Simple penalty is start him from the pit lane at Monza, there is every chance he will still get points.

Tbh its now got to the point where its being taken to far. The thing that bugs me is nico did not even say sorry, when lewis hit button in germany and did not even effect buttons race he said sorry. lewis also says sorry to his fans and the team when he makes an error, Nico nothing at all.

I think they also need to speak to Lewis and stop him running to the press with internal matters.

The drivers all wanted less penalites in the race so thats what they got, had it been race 1 etc then nico would have got a 5 sec penalty which would have changed nothing.

Lewis needs to clear his head go to Monza and win the race, tbh he needs to win all the rest of the races and in the past he has had the upper hand on the tracks.

Russia still might be cancelled anyway so dont count on that race taking place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2014 11:46AM by marcl.

Rosberg accepts responsibility for Spa clash

I wonder what Suitable disciplinary measures have been taken ....... any guesses?


[www.gpupdate.net]


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group

shame it took a telling off for him to finally say sorry

Morbid schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Just as I thought, they have no idea what to do. I
> can't imagine this would ever have happened under
> Ross Brawn.
>


Only because ROSS never really cared about the fans, or about how he wins. he only cared about winning.

i do not have any clear evidence for that, but I assume it based on what he has done over the years.


I personally find it nice that mercedes are trying to involve the public opinion. After all, they entereded F1 because of marketing reasons - thus their current policy is not a surprise. My opinion is that it is nice to have team management that actually cares about how they achieve their success. Even if they have no idea what to do, it is nothing to be ashamed of - ron dennis, jean todt, frank williams and many other legendary names in the sport have had headaches over the years because of having equally competitive drivers in their team. On the other hand no one can actually be sure that mercedes even give a damn what the public opinion is and have done all tweeter etc. actions just to look like carrying about how they win. Just my personal opinion of course

Latest development:

Rosberg admits to error of judgement at Spa and apologizes publically to the team and Lewis.

[www.autosport.com]

Lewis confirms that the two can still work together in the team, admits that he also has made mistakes, and that finger pointing will get them nowhere.

[www.autosport.com]

Both drivers are still free to race.

[www.autosport.com]

Quote

The team has also taken unspecified disciplinary action against the German.

I wonder what that could be?

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2014 04:55PM by Morbid.

Probably just a fine.

PR scripted tosh.

But it seems the team accept that both have played the game, and need to clean up their act a little bit.

J i m Wrote:
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> PR scripted tosh.

Well, how do you think it should have panned out? What would you have done?

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

I didn't say it was wrong. I didn't say they should have done something else.

I pointed out that it's "PR scripted tosh" which it is.

The Merc PR department have clearly sat down with both Rosberg and Hamilton and worked on those statements with them.

I'm not going to now write an essay, on what they should have done differently because I neither think nor inferred that they should have.

Well, I doubt if you live outside the UK, that you will have a good understanding of the proper ways to use "tosh". I certainly don't.

It can be read in two ways: either as rubbish or as quite tidy. So either you are saying that it is a PR scripted tidying up, or you are saying that it is PR scripted bullsh!t. I understood it as the latter.

Could you clear that up, please?

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Well, you've pretty much answered your own question there.

The PR releases obviously went lengths to 'tidy' the Rosberg v Hamilton controversy up, but was also 'bullshit'.

But please don't play the I'm outside of England card. You know very well that the majority in this forum which has a good spread of nationalities are fluent in English to the point of speaking and writing in English as well as (if not actually better than) any English man, and that's including the many little dialect nuances. It has to be said that I see better quality English in your posts than I find in England from actual English people.

I'd love to be as multi-lingual as many of you here are.

I am not playing any card. It was an honest inquiry. And if you look at your explanation, it contains something that I didn't ponder, namely that your intention was both, not either one or the other.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2014 12:44PM by Morbid.