Pre-season Testing - Jerez
Posted by Ferrari2007
Diax F1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Morbid Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Red Bull in trouble hampers the development of
> the
> > Legend of Vettel. The legend of Vettel brings
> > forth $€£¥ in truckloads. That is all
> Bernie
> > cares about.
>
> To which he can kindly go **** himself. Think he
> may be finally losing the plot and going senile -
> either that he's spent so much time snuggling up
> to Red Bull and Vettel because of their dominance
> (if I recall, Christian Horner as the next CEO of
> F1 next? Supporting Vettel when @#$%& hit the fan
> at Malaysia? Plus the whole shenanigans about
> Vettel being the greatest F1 driver of all time?
> <- Yeah, that's bollocks.) that he's worried his
> influence on the sport will diminish if they're
> not at the top.
>
> Yes, Vettel has talent - but if anyone can claim
> that the Red Bull was not by far the best car on
> the grid for the last four years then I will give
> them money, because I could sign them off as
> charity work.
>
> If Vettel dominates the same way Schumacher did
> last decade, people will switch off bar the most
> ardent Vettel fans - no-one wants to see someone
> winning all the time.
This is just one more reason why I want RedBull to start this season on the back foot - it'll be a win-win situation for F1 on every level.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Morbid Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Red Bull in trouble hampers the development of
> the
> > Legend of Vettel. The legend of Vettel brings
> > forth $€£¥ in truckloads. That is all
> Bernie
> > cares about.
>
> To which he can kindly go **** himself. Think he
> may be finally losing the plot and going senile -
> either that he's spent so much time snuggling up
> to Red Bull and Vettel because of their dominance
> (if I recall, Christian Horner as the next CEO of
> F1 next? Supporting Vettel when @#$%& hit the fan
> at Malaysia? Plus the whole shenanigans about
> Vettel being the greatest F1 driver of all time?
> <- Yeah, that's bollocks.) that he's worried his
> influence on the sport will diminish if they're
> not at the top.
>
> Yes, Vettel has talent - but if anyone can claim
> that the Red Bull was not by far the best car on
> the grid for the last four years then I will give
> them money, because I could sign them off as
> charity work.
>
> If Vettel dominates the same way Schumacher did
> last decade, people will switch off bar the most
> ardent Vettel fans - no-one wants to see someone
> winning all the time.
This is just one more reason why I want RedBull to start this season on the back foot - it'll be a win-win situation for F1 on every level.
Ferrari2007 Wrote:
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> Funny you should day that, Jim. One of the very
> observations that I made in my recent MA Project.
>
> In does seem that people have forgotten that
> Newey's cars were always fragile as hell.
Exactly.. even the recent Red Bulls have always been marginal. With Webber seemingly taking the lion's share of the unreliability but many of the radio messages we hear from Rocky to Seb are often telling him to slow down and save car.. "Sebastian, be careful we need the gearbox".
Adrian Newey has always pushed the boundaries with regards to aerodynamics and packaging. Back in the Leyton House days the drivers complained that there wasn't any room for them to sit and drive!
McLaren achieved relatively little with Newey cars, (1 constructors title, 2 drivers), although the cars were obviously very slick, the Newey trademark tight packaging definitely caused some unreliability, then there was the MP4/18 which proved to be so unreliable, that they never took it to a race.
In general Red Bull have managed to temper Newey performance with "some" reliability. But it's not ever so surprising that with the new ERS assisted 1.6L V6 Turbo engines requiring significantly more cooling than the normally aspirated 2.4L V8 engines that a Adrian Newey car is going to experience a greater deal of teething trouble in that area.
Still.. that doesn't write the RB10 off as a bad car. As Ricciardo pointed out.. there's nothing to say that it isn't a good race car and for all we know when it does get running... it could prove to be a second ahead of the next quickest car.
The point is we don't know.
However.. the early signs are that Renault haven't made a strong start, certainly in terms of reliability anyway. And if the Mercedes and Ferrari power-trains prove significantly better... then Red Bull are going to have a fight on their hands even if the chassis proves to be the most nimble and best handling.
In other news... Ted Kravitz seems to think that Rob Smedley to Williams is a done deal.. he's just on "gardening leave". Also paddock consensus has it that Williams have indeed signed a deal with Martini and will launch the new livery shortly before the Australian Grand Prix. We do know that there is a new "partner" as Claire Williams confirmed that they'd signed one last year, she just declined to say who it was with.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Funny you should day that, Jim. One of the very
> observations that I made in my recent MA Project.
>
> In does seem that people have forgotten that
> Newey's cars were always fragile as hell.
Exactly.. even the recent Red Bulls have always been marginal. With Webber seemingly taking the lion's share of the unreliability but many of the radio messages we hear from Rocky to Seb are often telling him to slow down and save car.. "Sebastian, be careful we need the gearbox".
Adrian Newey has always pushed the boundaries with regards to aerodynamics and packaging. Back in the Leyton House days the drivers complained that there wasn't any room for them to sit and drive!
McLaren achieved relatively little with Newey cars, (1 constructors title, 2 drivers), although the cars were obviously very slick, the Newey trademark tight packaging definitely caused some unreliability, then there was the MP4/18 which proved to be so unreliable, that they never took it to a race.
In general Red Bull have managed to temper Newey performance with "some" reliability. But it's not ever so surprising that with the new ERS assisted 1.6L V6 Turbo engines requiring significantly more cooling than the normally aspirated 2.4L V8 engines that a Adrian Newey car is going to experience a greater deal of teething trouble in that area.
Still.. that doesn't write the RB10 off as a bad car. As Ricciardo pointed out.. there's nothing to say that it isn't a good race car and for all we know when it does get running... it could prove to be a second ahead of the next quickest car.
The point is we don't know.
However.. the early signs are that Renault haven't made a strong start, certainly in terms of reliability anyway. And if the Mercedes and Ferrari power-trains prove significantly better... then Red Bull are going to have a fight on their hands even if the chassis proves to be the most nimble and best handling.
In other news... Ted Kravitz seems to think that Rob Smedley to Williams is a done deal.. he's just on "gardening leave". Also paddock consensus has it that Williams have indeed signed a deal with Martini and will launch the new livery shortly before the Australian Grand Prix. We do know that there is a new "partner" as Claire Williams confirmed that they'd signed one last year, she just declined to say who it was with.
Good point Jim.
Sebastian has been SO good in the last few years that for the most part he has coasted to a lot of victories whilst his team have been franticly telling him to slow and bring the car home. If he wasn't half as good as he was on Saturday (and race starts) and started a couple places further down and had to race hard for 100% of the laps then I reckon he would have the same issues Webber did.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Sebastian has been SO good in the last few years that for the most part he has coasted to a lot of victories whilst his team have been franticly telling him to slow and bring the car home. If he wasn't half as good as he was on Saturday (and race starts) and started a couple places further down and had to race hard for 100% of the laps then I reckon he would have the same issues Webber did.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
So week two done, and the Mercedes teams are starting to look comfortable and relatively reliable whist Red Bull and the Renault teams look the complete opposite.
They've got four more days of testing and three weeks to sort their @#$%& out. Otherwise each Renault propelled car will score a big fat DNF at Melbourne, possibly in qualifying let alone the race.
They've got four more days of testing and three weeks to sort their @#$%& out. Otherwise each Renault propelled car will score a big fat DNF at Melbourne, possibly in qualifying let alone the race.
The Renault powered cars seem utterly hopeless.
It's not that they keep breaking down, it's the fact that the teams are finding it so tough to even prepare the cars.
Look at Red Bull and Toro Rosso today, they got about 30 laps between them.
As Vergne explained today, the STR9 car itself is actually pretty handy, but these engine problems make that effectively academic - [wp.me]
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
It's not that they keep breaking down, it's the fact that the teams are finding it so tough to even prepare the cars.
Look at Red Bull and Toro Rosso today, they got about 30 laps between them.
As Vergne explained today, the STR9 car itself is actually pretty handy, but these engine problems make that effectively academic - [wp.me]
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
Everyone has had issues that have stopped them out on track, that's inevitable when you're testing what it is effectively a prototype.
But from what Mercedes are saying, these are just normal issues, that with time can be eliminated, or worked around. More like niggles that could pop up.
It's the Renault powered teams, and seemingly Marussia as well, who are having problems that are restricting their running to such an extent that they can't even work through these problems.
Toro Rosso's day was ruined on Saturday because of an engine problem. How can they find and confront the problems that are likely to arise with a new car when they can barely run.
Red Bull are still no where near completing a race simulation, and its questionable if they can actually do so before the first race in Australia, which would be astounding.
It's a bit of a state really.
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
But from what Mercedes are saying, these are just normal issues, that with time can be eliminated, or worked around. More like niggles that could pop up.
It's the Renault powered teams, and seemingly Marussia as well, who are having problems that are restricting their running to such an extent that they can't even work through these problems.
Toro Rosso's day was ruined on Saturday because of an engine problem. How can they find and confront the problems that are likely to arise with a new car when they can barely run.
Red Bull are still no where near completing a race simulation, and its questionable if they can actually do so before the first race in Australia, which would be astounding.
It's a bit of a state really.
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
I dunno... McLaren are looking pretty strong as well 
GPGSL -
GPGSL-3 - Pizza Party Racing manager and driver
Nations Cup - Team Scotland manager
GPGSL -
GPGSL-3 - Pizza Party Racing manager and driver
Nations Cup - Team Scotland manager
From a performance point of view, more now than ever we really have nothing to go on. Only really Mercedes have taken the fuel out and done a qualifying simulation. I don't think even the other Mercedes teams have genuinely chased lap-times at all yet.
I think maybe only three teams, Merc, McLaren and Williams have done a specific race run.
Many of the teams haven't been able to get the cars to last long enough without breaking down in order to attempt a race run.
This should have been a massive opportunity for the likes of Caterham and Marussia to pick up attrition points... But they too can barley string ten laps together.
If half the grid don't make some dramatic progress on the reliability front in the next three weeks then the opening races are not going to be about performance and pace but who can get the car to the finish at all. The first three or four races could have some very unaccustomed visitors to the podium.
From that point of view the Mercedes teams look best prepared. Merc, McLaren and Williams are racking up the milage. But it's Williams who are beginning to emerge as the team having fewer breakdowns. Indeed they haven't caused a single red flag yet and their only real issue at Bahrain was traced down to a fault wiring loom.
I don't think a true competitive order will emerge now until now until the European races and after the first engine/gearbox cycle. Red Bull are even rumoured to preparing a b spec car in time for the Spanish Grand Prix. Renault in particular are under pressure because the engines have to be frozen soon and so no performance development can be done during the season and what performance development will they have been able to manage so far?
I think maybe only three teams, Merc, McLaren and Williams have done a specific race run.
Many of the teams haven't been able to get the cars to last long enough without breaking down in order to attempt a race run.
This should have been a massive opportunity for the likes of Caterham and Marussia to pick up attrition points... But they too can barley string ten laps together.
If half the grid don't make some dramatic progress on the reliability front in the next three weeks then the opening races are not going to be about performance and pace but who can get the car to the finish at all. The first three or four races could have some very unaccustomed visitors to the podium.
From that point of view the Mercedes teams look best prepared. Merc, McLaren and Williams are racking up the milage. But it's Williams who are beginning to emerge as the team having fewer breakdowns. Indeed they haven't caused a single red flag yet and their only real issue at Bahrain was traced down to a fault wiring loom.
I don't think a true competitive order will emerge now until now until the European races and after the first engine/gearbox cycle. Red Bull are even rumoured to preparing a b spec car in time for the Spanish Grand Prix. Renault in particular are under pressure because the engines have to be frozen soon and so no performance development can be done during the season and what performance development will they have been able to manage so far?
I'm looking forward to seeing Seb managing to pass another car during the race in Melbourne and shouting over the radio "YES guys! We DID it!!" 
This is looking juicy. Mercedes and Macca FTW so far.
This is looking juicy. Mercedes and Macca FTW so far.
Pretty interesting first day back in Bahrain.
The Mercedes powered teams looked serene once again.
Mercedes and McLaren both completed race simulations, as they ramp up for Oz.
Williams are now the only team yet to cause a red flag.
Red Bull had a decent morning, but then lost almost the entire afternoon with exhaust issues.
Lotus had exhaust problems of their own and lost a hell of a lot of time as well.
At this rate Australia is going to be an absolute mad one.
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
The Mercedes powered teams looked serene once again.
Mercedes and McLaren both completed race simulations, as they ramp up for Oz.
Williams are now the only team yet to cause a red flag.
Red Bull had a decent morning, but then lost almost the entire afternoon with exhaust issues.
Lotus had exhaust problems of their own and lost a hell of a lot of time as well.
At this rate Australia is going to be an absolute mad one.
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
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