2013 Hungarian Grand Prix ***SPOILERS***

Thought it was harsh though. Cars were all over that kerb all race. Why does it only become an issue when someone overtakes someone? From what I could see, there wasn't an awful lot of choice. It was either accident or inch off the track. It's not like they were doing at Hockenheim a few years ago, when they were driving a few metres off the track to overtake someone around the outside.

On further review, the curb at turn 4 is encapsulated in white lines exactly like turn 3 which was used like that all race long. Thus they have to mean the Button incident.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Well one was "causing a collision" (investigated after the race) and the other was "exceeding track limits and gaining an advantage" (drive through penalty). It has to be the turn 4 pass on Massa, surely?

By the way, yes that incident with Button was sheer stupidity and back to the Grosjean we all know, with complete spacial awareness failure.

Great Job from Lewis (he proved me wrong), and finally Williams scoring a Championship Point (makes me really Happy).

And Thank You for showing us Karl Wendlinger peeing against the guardrail *lol*

The Real Story of the Race was that the Renault's fell apart and the Ferrari's didn't.
Rosberg headed for the sliproad and retired, probably because of Nicotin starvation they have still not given him a helmet with a little hole in it.

It can't be, because then the entire grid should have multiple penalties for leaving the track at t3. Perhaps they think the advantage was from leaving the track after the contact with Jenson.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

It was the pass on Massa (car 4), though the stewards claim it was at turn 11, LOL. Fills you with confidence in their decisions that does.

FIA Hungarian GP Event Info

I imagine he'll get a grid drop for the one that's investigated after the race then.
I haven't seen the footage yet as I only listened on Radio 5 Live(Laptop is buggered); once I see the BBC Highlights I'll be better placed to comment on the Massa incident.

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I think, purely from a sporting point of view, the drove-thru penalty for the Massa incident was fair. Harsh maybe, but fair.
The Jenson incident was just sheer retardedness on Grosjean's part.

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Even Massa thinks Grosjean's penalty was "completely wrong".

Massa: Grosjean penalty totally wrong

The button incident was a bad brain fade, but then again Button stayed in there with nothing to gain. He had the right to stay but it served no point.


The Massa penalty must be wrong. If the curb is encapsulated by a white line then it is part of the track. And that curb is encapsulated!

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

i'm not sure but i think the curb is not encapsulated by a white line. from the footage i saw there seemed to be a small strip of concrete behind the curbs that just looks like a white line

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used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld

A kerb has never been defined as part of the race track as far as I know (though I don't agree with that - it should count, or what's the point of them?). Now you've got a kerb to the kerb with all the bloody infuriating grasscrete that's everywhere.

Reminding ourselves of how good the A1 Ring was, the video EC83 alluded to in the Austrian GP thread (below) of Schumacher's pole lap... look how far off the track he goes in turn 1. He's barely in the country.

I feel for Grosjean. He gave this race absolutely everything, and drove exceptionally well. However, after the Button incident everything else was sadly tarred with the same brush. Call me a cynic, but I'd wager the Massa pass would've been unpunished if Grosjean hadn't had the run in with Button earlier.

At least he made the effort to prove you can overtake at the Hungaroring.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

Call me a cynic, but I'd wager the Massa pass would've been unpunished if Grosjean had been anyone else.

how good does a v10 ferrari sound!!

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2013 - Nando must come through..

n00binio Wrote:
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> i'm not sure but i think the curb is not
> encapsulated by a white line. from the footage i
> saw there seemed to be a small strip of concrete
> behind the curbs that just looks like a white line


If you look at it on this video, you can see that indeed it is.

Grosjean overtaking

This picture also shows it quite clearly. It is exactly the same as T3, which was used in the same fashion by at least one car every lap.

T4 pic

As you can see, the curb at the final corner (and many others) does not have this encapsulation.

Final corner

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2013 08:18AM by Morbid.

gav écrivait:
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> Call me a cynic, but I'd wager the Massa pass
> would've been unpunished if Grosjean had been
> anyone else.

I think you're probably right.

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I think the penalties applied to Grosjean got a bit mish mashed.

On the whole he drove pretty well all weekend, I was fearing carnage at the start where he was being squeezed pretty assertively by Vettel but for once he kept it altogether.

His move on Button was clumsy, there's no other way to describe it. He perhaps should have been told to hand the position back given that following the contact he had to cut the chicane, that would have been the most appropriate penalty. However given that Button was immediately also overtaken by Alonso and then pitted, that wasn't really practical and so a drive thru penalty would have been appropriate, which was effectively (and rather pointlessly) applied retrospectively after the race which didn't affect the end result. They may as well have reprimanded him instead. But going by the scope of his previous, that incident was really insignificant anyway and Button didn't really lose out much by it if at all.

His move on Massa, was brilliant quite frankly. However the move was completed by taking all four wheels across the white line which defines the boundaries of the race track and so he did overtake by going off the track. He should have been told to give the position back. A drive thru was rather harsh.

I think he has grounds for feeling frustrated, because he ought to have been challenging for the win.

J i m Wrote:
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> However the move was completed by taking all four
> wheels across the white line which defines the
> boundaries of the race track and so he did
> overtake by going off the track. He should have
> been told to give the position back. A drive thru
> was rather harsh.


Not if the white line is extended beyond the curb and the grass-crete, which it is at T4. like it is at T3, which was used like that, perhaps a hundred times that race, without penalty.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

For comparision, do try and view what was acceptable just 5 years ago in Fuji. Massa and Kubica completely leave the track several times during the last lap fight. Look at about 60 seconds in:

Massa V Kubica


Also look at Massa Q lap 2 years ago, at 54 to 56 seconds in. I swear if you look hard enough, there is a point where he can only have perhaps a few millimeters of contact with the white line, if he in fact did not cross over it. Acceptable, yes, because that curb is also encapsulated with white lines:

Massa Hungaroring Pole 2011


And Vettels pole at Albert Park in 2010, where he completely leaves the track at 27-29 seconds in:

Vettel Albert Park pole 2010


Kimi pole at Nürburgring 2007, where he leaves the track at 36-38 seconds:

Kimi Nürburgring Pole 2007

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2013 05:22PM by Morbid.