About F1 Engines

I remember the first Peugeot engines in the 1994 McLaren were possibly the most unreliable engines I've seen in a top car. They were terrible. The best example was Martin Brundle at Silverstone - BOOM! It looked more like a Space Shuttle taking off than an F1 car starting a race.

Actually they were not too bad in the opening races of the season - I think the bargeboards McLaren added to their car after Monaco(to counter the loss of downforce from the wings under the sudden regulation changes) caused them to run too hot.

---

I think I read somewhere that the blow up at Silverstone on Brundle's car wasn't actually an engine failure.

Quoted from god forbid.... Wikipedia.

"In reality the culprit was a clutch that cracked spilling its lubricants on top of the hot engine causing a spectacular fire. The engine, once cleaned, worked without problem."

---

Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

That would make sense, given that the engine hadn't had much of a chance to overheat yet.
Pretty sure the rest were legit engine failures though.

---

Yeah the Peugout engines were always pretty fragile, weren't they mostly blamed for Prost getting no points in 2000.

---

Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

Ferrari2007 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think I read somewhere that the blow up at
> Silverstone on Brundle's car wasn't actually an
> engine failure.
>
> Quoted from god forbid.... Wikipedia.
>
> "In reality the culprit was a clutch that cracked
> spilling its lubricants on top of the hot engine
> causing a spectacular fire. The engine, once
> cleaned, worked without problem."


Here's Brundle's take on it:

"I was then blamed for using the wrong revs on the start line even though the problem was evident on the warm up lap. It turned out that I was holding the revs in a zone in which the harmonics made the piston rings leak...it later transpired that Peugeot, in order to reduce internal friction, had gone from 3 piston rings to 2. No one had told me about the crucial rev band. Worse still, Mclaren, because of internal politics chose to remain silent about Peugeot's one-eyed account. If I was bitterly disappointed before, I was absolutely livid now."

He also had a failure at Brazil when the flywheel broke off and went underneath the car. Although recorded as a crash, it was almost certainly down to the engine.

When Peugeot entered F1, Jean Todt left the team because he was questioning the seriousness in which the project was undertaken. He was replaced by Jean-Pierre Jabouille, who was regarded by Eddie Jordan as not knowing a lot about running an engine project.

With regards to Prost in 2000, I think the power figure was around 792bhp. Not a bad figure, but not a front-runner. However, Prost got through something like 50-55 engines in 2000 alone.

---

GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2012 11:06PM by Incident 2k9.

They were solid for Jordan in '95 and '96 - indeed in 1996 they were considered one of the strongest engines in the field (though how light and efficient they were I don't know). And had the Prost not been as fragile as it was in 1997, and had Panis not crashed at Montreal, they most certainly have won a race... I did find it horribly ironic that the one race where the engines were spiking above the red-line (and had been causing concern all weekend) was probably their strongest race so far - Trulli leading at the A1-Ring... and of course it went boom.

Quote
Incident 2k9
He also had a failure at Brazil when the flywheel broke off and went underneath the car. Although recorded as a crash, it was almost certainly down to the engine.

And what a crash. Collected by the carnage caused by Irvine. Not a great few seconds for Brundle... engine failure, imminent retirement and then, just for good measure, clouted on the head by a Formula 1 car. He's probably a better days.

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did find it horribly ironic that the one race where the
> engines were spiking above the red-line (and had
> been causing concern all weekend) was probably
> their strongest race so far - Trulli leading at
> the A1-Ring... and of course it went boom.

That was a Mugen-Honda engine though.
Yeah, Nakano's engine went bang on one lap and then Trulli's engine blew about a lap later - the commentators thought it was a replay of Nakano's engine failure to begin with.

---

Ferrari2007 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah the Peugout engines were always pretty
> fragile, weren't they mostly blamed for Prost
> getting no points in 2000.


That might have also had something's I do with the car being a bucking bronco and Alesi and Heidfeld crashing into each other at every given opportunity.

Quote
EC83
That was a Mugen-Honda engine though.

Ah, of course. I think it's time for bed.

J i m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ferrari2007 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yeah the Peugout engines were always pretty
> > fragile, weren't they mostly blamed for Prost
> > getting no points in 2000.
>
>
> That might have also had something's I do with the
> car being a bucking bronco and Alesi and Heidfeld
> crashing into each other at every given
> opportunity.


Haha, yeah there was that too. Alesi really didn't pick great career moves did he. Decided to go to Ferrari just as they went through a barren patch instead of Williams who were about to hit the big time. He then left Ferrari just as they made a turn around to go to Benetton who were on a downward spiral and would only win once more again. (Berger in 97)

Then joined a Sauber team going no where in the midfield to be out driven by Diniz, only to leave for Prost who were awful both years he drove for them and only just limped over the lien at the end of 2001.

---

Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions

I think Alesi actually signed the contract to race for Williams as well. But then the Ferrari opportunity presented itself and he made an emotional decision. Which in fairness was also a perfectly logical one because at the time it was Ferrari taking to the fight to McLaren. Only hindsight shows it it to be the wrong choice.

Similarly the move to Benetton was logical and possibly he didn't want to be Schumacher's No:2.

But Jean isn't the only driver whose career could have turned out very differently around but for a Williams FW14... Johnny Herbert had a massive reputation in F3 and F3000 to the extent that he was touted as the "next Jim Clark" he was hotly tipped as a favourite to land a drive with Williams. But then came that awful accident at Brands Hatch in which he narrowly avoided losing both feet. The surgeons worked wonders for him, but the permanent shortening to much of the ligament in his ankles and feet must have affected his driving from them on, I know he initially struggled with the strength required for braking and heel and toe was a problem as well. I think he did rather well to substain a F1 career after that.

I myself have a winner in this contest: The Porsche V12 which was in the 1991 Footwork Arrows. That thing was fragile as hell! IIRC the team scrapped it for a Cosworth HB mid-season, which of course unbalanced the car even more. It was a shame that such an excellent driver as Michele Alboreto had to drive that piece of junk. Not to mention the nosecone was hideous.



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps

Incident 2k9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In 1995, Minardi had Mugens swiped from under
> their noses. Then again in 2000, a Supertec deal
> was in the pipeline until Flavio vetoed the deal
> and had to persevere with the engines from the
> previous season, which were themselves from '98.
>
> Due to the fact that the cars were usually quite
> decent, they could have been midfielders with
> those deals...
the final f1 game for the psx (Formula 1 2001) actually had the Minardis as having a Supertec engine, with the Arrows' engines being called AMT (the early name for Asiatech), this due to the game being released very early in the season, with various details being based on pre-season news. and half the cars ingame were from the 2000 game with just updated liveries, even the helmets were wrong....bit off topic lol!

Carlitox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1991 Footwork Arrows.Not to
> mention the nosecone was hideous.

Now I feel the 91 and 92 Footworks were lovely looking! In my top favourites for sure, beautiful shapes.






Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

danm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Carlitox Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 1991 Footwork Arrows.Not to
> > mention the nosecone was hideous.
>
> Now I feel the 91 and 92 Footworks were lovely
> looking! In my top favourites for sure, beautiful
> shapes.
>
> [farm3.static.flickr.com]
> 95b9e74.jpg
>
> [f1ad.narod.ru]
> kFA13Mugen_Bel.jpg


I just don't like the FA12, but the FA13 is really good looking. And the classic stripe livery they had was simple and great.



Stats: 139 Starts / 7 Wins / 9 Poles / 5 Fastest laps

it's sad to see the decreasing number of engine manufacturers in f1 these days, ferrari, mercedes, cosworth, renault.

would love to see more Honda, BMW, Lamborghini etc

Apparently, there's speculation that next year's engines will be more powerful than anyone expected. They're saying that they could reach 850 BHP, which is about 100 BHP more than the current engines. Also, cars will have far less drag next year. I wonder if this means a return to 350+ km/h down the straights at Monza? I sure hope so!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]

Merc have linked their engine dyno, and simulator to come up with a demo sound of their new turbo v6 at Monza.

[youtu.be]

I think I'm the only person who seems to like the new sound. The major caveat for that video is that the sound was taken from the dyno room, where they have a hefty device to extract the exhaust gases. I can't see how this wouldn't effect the sound.

It's also quite refreshing, if you didn't notice, to see Mercedes actively participating in the comments thread on that video, and being pretty honest. They're a brave lot to do that, on YouTube of all places

---