2012 Japanese Grand Prix ***Spoilers***
Posted by Toki
News:
Jean-Eric Vergne: 3 Place Grid Penalty (Blocking Bruno Senna in Q1)
Jenson Button: 5 Place Grid Penalty (Gearbox Change)
Nico Hülkenberg: 5 Place Grid Penalty (Gearbox Change)
Michael Schumacher: 10 Place Grid Penalty (Singapur Accident)
The Real Story of the Race was that the Renault's fell apart and the Ferrari's didn't.
Rosberg headed for the sliproad and retired, probably because of Nicotin starvation they have still not given him a helmet with a little hole in it.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2012 10:59AM by Toki.
I'd side with the stewards on the Vettel - Alonso incident in that they should have gently told him that he ought not have been dawdling around like that, but in fairness he got out of the way and didn't really impede Alonso.
Bruno was unlucky... He did get baulked by Vergne who was probably a bit too cocky about it, hence the 3 place grid penalty. But it's telling that Bruno is getting ever more desperate, especially during qualifying. I think #BOTTAS is probably trending on the inside of his visor.
Good work by Red Bull to get the car to it's sweet spot for both drivers, assuming the alternator can take the punishment I expect Vettel will bugger off into the distance, Webber might make harder work of it as he so often does, yet you'd have to say they're looking good for a 1-2.
It'd be brilliant to see Kobayashi on the podium, he has a chance but he's also got Grosjean to avoid into turn 1, and also Alonso will be looking to make one of his customary super starts so he might have to deal out some of his "Kamui kisses".
It'd be interesting to see if Button can manage his tyres to a podium, it'll be tricky with Alonso, Kimi & Perez around him but I think he'll be quietly satisfied that he manages to start ahead of Hamilton despite his 5 place grid penalty, which is a Spa like kick in the teeth for Hamilton although I suspect there will be slightly fewer twitpics of his telemetry this time. But it shows just how important car setup is and how small the McLaren sweet spot is.
Other than that... I guess the rest of the focus is can Force India or Williams haul themselves into the points?
Bruno was unlucky... He did get baulked by Vergne who was probably a bit too cocky about it, hence the 3 place grid penalty. But it's telling that Bruno is getting ever more desperate, especially during qualifying. I think #BOTTAS is probably trending on the inside of his visor.
Good work by Red Bull to get the car to it's sweet spot for both drivers, assuming the alternator can take the punishment I expect Vettel will bugger off into the distance, Webber might make harder work of it as he so often does, yet you'd have to say they're looking good for a 1-2.
It'd be brilliant to see Kobayashi on the podium, he has a chance but he's also got Grosjean to avoid into turn 1, and also Alonso will be looking to make one of his customary super starts so he might have to deal out some of his "Kamui kisses".
It'd be interesting to see if Button can manage his tyres to a podium, it'll be tricky with Alonso, Kimi & Perez around him but I think he'll be quietly satisfied that he manages to start ahead of Hamilton despite his 5 place grid penalty, which is a Spa like kick in the teeth for Hamilton although I suspect there will be slightly fewer twitpics of his telemetry this time. But it shows just how important car setup is and how small the McLaren sweet spot is.
Other than that... I guess the rest of the focus is can Force India or Williams haul themselves into the points?
Ooft, juicy start! Looks like the Championship will be tightening up...
Stupid piece of driving from Grosjean to crash into Webber. Just adding to what's a pretty long list now.
Great drive so far from Kamui! Good pace from Sauber in general - and quality move on Lewis by Perez.
It'll be interesting to see where Kimi ends up.
It'll be interesting to see where Kimi ends up.
So that's vettel with his third championship. At least that saves me waking early next week
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Well that's still a little too presumptuous.
Massa back on the podium and Maldonaldo back in the points... Hell has officially frozen over.
Good stuff by Kobayashi, fairy tale podium beat Button and McLaren fair and square.
Back to detention for Grosjean, he hasn't yet learnt the lesson it seems.
And Bruno wasted a points worthy car again, by basically being error prone and lame. The team should be well ahead of Force India but the drivers have squandered it all.
Massa back on the podium and Maldonaldo back in the points... Hell has officially frozen over.
Good stuff by Kobayashi, fairy tale podium beat Button and McLaren fair and square.
Back to detention for Grosjean, he hasn't yet learnt the lesson it seems.
And Bruno wasted a points worthy car again, by basically being error prone and lame. The team should be well ahead of Force India but the drivers have squandered it all.
Taken from elsewhere RE: Grosjean and early lap incidents...
Europe 2009 - collision with Badoer - first lap
Italy 2009 - contact which damaged wing - first lap
Belgium 2009 - crashed into Button - first lap
Australia 2012 - didn't back off when Maldonado had line - second lap
Malaysia 2012 - collision with Schumacher - first lap
Spain 2012 - contact with Perez - first lap
Monaco 2012 - collision with Schumacher - first lap
Britain 2012 - contact with Di Resta - first lap
Germany 2012 - ran off the track - first lap
Belgium 2012 - collision with Hamilton, Alonso - first lap
Japan 2012 - collision with Webber - first lap
11 out of 20 starts. Ridiculous. The guy doesn't deserve to be on the grid next year, even if he is 'good' when he's good.
Give the seat to Heikki.
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
Europe 2009 - collision with Badoer - first lap
Italy 2009 - contact which damaged wing - first lap
Belgium 2009 - crashed into Button - first lap
Australia 2012 - didn't back off when Maldonado had line - second lap
Malaysia 2012 - collision with Schumacher - first lap
Spain 2012 - contact with Perez - first lap
Monaco 2012 - collision with Schumacher - first lap
Britain 2012 - contact with Di Resta - first lap
Germany 2012 - ran off the track - first lap
Belgium 2012 - collision with Hamilton, Alonso - first lap
Japan 2012 - collision with Webber - first lap
11 out of 20 starts. Ridiculous. The guy doesn't deserve to be on the grid next year, even if he is 'good' when he's good.
Give the seat to Heikki.
I think Martin nailed it when he said these are things you should not have to learn. They should be instinctive as a racing driver.
He did it GP2, he's still doing it.
I like the guy, I massively under rated him from 2009. I think he's quick, i think he's Lewis/Vettel mega quick! But will, or can he change? I am not sure. Of course htere is nothing malicious in what he does, it's just it is too often.
A shame because I think it could see one of the brightest talents in the field go to waste.
As for the race. Massa and Kobayashi were amazing. I'm rather bored of seeing Vettel do well, or more so bored of it being easy. Then again rather than being a show of his ability it is pure and simple a showcase of RedBull out doing Mclaren and Ferrari AGAIN.
I might dislike them doing so well, but once again RedBull are making the rest look like monkeys. Seb is talented but for this season has shown me one thing, RedBull should get more credit from guys like us. It's all Seb, this, Seb matches this record, that record but as much as I hate to see it RBR's recovery is down to Horner being an absolutely amazing boss (still think he's a cock!), Newey being Newey... but most importantly the whole team has a huge feel of together-ness. You don't get that with Mclaren at all.
Congrat's to Seb but for me this was only ever a show of how good RedBull are, NOT how good Seb is.
Also, Alonso's comments about Kimi not backing off? Alonso should watch the video and realize it was ALL his own fault. Kimi is as clean as they come.
Wasn't sure about Senna's incident? Never saw it.
Perez. I massive LOL'd. I still have doubts about him. Obviously a huge talent but like I said before, if he were THAT good Ferrari would have had him. There's a reason they let one of their main rival's have him.
But yeah, well done to Massa. Such a nice sight to see him on the podium, however one good race does not cut it still. But what was most interesting was his post race interview. He talked a lot about confidence etc. That's why I believe Felipe in a fresh team would see the Felipe form from 2008....
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
He did it GP2, he's still doing it.
I like the guy, I massively under rated him from 2009. I think he's quick, i think he's Lewis/Vettel mega quick! But will, or can he change? I am not sure. Of course htere is nothing malicious in what he does, it's just it is too often.
A shame because I think it could see one of the brightest talents in the field go to waste.
As for the race. Massa and Kobayashi were amazing. I'm rather bored of seeing Vettel do well, or more so bored of it being easy. Then again rather than being a show of his ability it is pure and simple a showcase of RedBull out doing Mclaren and Ferrari AGAIN.
I might dislike them doing so well, but once again RedBull are making the rest look like monkeys. Seb is talented but for this season has shown me one thing, RedBull should get more credit from guys like us. It's all Seb, this, Seb matches this record, that record but as much as I hate to see it RBR's recovery is down to Horner being an absolutely amazing boss (still think he's a cock!), Newey being Newey... but most importantly the whole team has a huge feel of together-ness. You don't get that with Mclaren at all.
Congrat's to Seb but for me this was only ever a show of how good RedBull are, NOT how good Seb is.
Also, Alonso's comments about Kimi not backing off? Alonso should watch the video and realize it was ALL his own fault. Kimi is as clean as they come.
Wasn't sure about Senna's incident? Never saw it.
Perez. I massive LOL'd. I still have doubts about him. Obviously a huge talent but like I said before, if he were THAT good Ferrari would have had him. There's a reason they let one of their main rival's have him.
But yeah, well done to Massa. Such a nice sight to see him on the podium, however one good race does not cut it still. But what was most interesting was his post race interview. He talked a lot about confidence etc. That's why I believe Felipe in a fresh team would see the Felipe form from 2008....
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Maybe Philipe would be better off @Lotus ...... new team no pressure, not a bad car either .....hmmm?
" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."
Member of R.S.C.T Group
" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."
Member of R.S.C.T Group
chet Wrote:
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> I think Martin nailed it when he said these are
> things you should not have to learn. They should
> be instinctive as a racing driver.
>
> He did it GP2, he's still doing it.
Very true. The problem with Grosjean is he doesn't have the intelligence to learn though. He's as thick as @#$%&, and now it's becoming increasingly obvious. This is why I didn't want to see him back in F1 after 2009. Somebody as stupid as him in these cars is just a liability.
As long as he's allowed to interfere with F1, this kind of thing will be happening.
matt3454 Wrote:
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> So that's vettel with his third championship. At
> least that saves me waking early next week
?! He isn't even leading the Championship yet!
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> I think Martin nailed it when he said these are
> things you should not have to learn. They should
> be instinctive as a racing driver.
>
> He did it GP2, he's still doing it.
Very true. The problem with Grosjean is he doesn't have the intelligence to learn though. He's as thick as @#$%&, and now it's becoming increasingly obvious. This is why I didn't want to see him back in F1 after 2009. Somebody as stupid as him in these cars is just a liability.
As long as he's allowed to interfere with F1, this kind of thing will be happening.
matt3454 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So that's vettel with his third championship. At
> least that saves me waking early next week
?! He isn't even leading the Championship yet!
My first 100% skipped F1 weekend during past 3 seasons (thx to idiotic punishments given by FIA) and seems like I haven't really missed anything.
Hopefully next one is going to be a good race.
Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?
Hopefully next one is going to be a good race.That was a real feel-good Grand Prix, I thoroughly enjoyed watching that 
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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2012 08:24PM by flat tyre.
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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2012 08:24PM by flat tyre.
Great drive by Vettel. No errors and had a lot more speed left. His team even had to keep reminding him to be careful. I'm not a Vettel fan, actually hate the guy, but he deserves credit in this race.
Webber, I hoped he would keep Vettel under pressure as no one else was in a starting position to do so. But...
"first-lap nutcase" Grojean, well here's what he had to say... “I was very careful and kept my line, focusing on the Sauber on the left, then I had an incident with Mark,” “It was nothing special…I was just trying to avoid contact and it didn’t work, so it was a stupid crash. I haven’t had a chance to speak with the team yet.”
He went into tunnel vision again. All he saw was the Sauber on his left. He forgot that there were other cars around him and that there's a next corner where cars around him will slow down to make the turn. I think he was desperately trying to avoid contact with the Sauber, but ran over the car in front instead. He already got the stop/go penalty so there must be no further penalty. But I thought a 10 place grid penalty next race would be more appropriate as his race was already ruined by that time, the stop/go would not make it much worse. Maybe Lotus should let him start from pitlane next race so he could avoid contact and get some points
If there's anything he learned recently, this time he admitted his mistake.
Great to see Kobayashi on podium on his home race. He had good pace throughout the race, good job handling the pressure and keeping button behind.
Also great to see Massa on podium again. But it was not on pure pace. He had good pace this weekend but did badly in Q2. He got better luck after the first lap clash, and had further luck when Kobayashi and Button got stuck behind slow cars after their first pit stop. Otherwise, he probably got 4th.
As for Alonso, I think its a race incident. Not sure why Alonso was blaming Kimi though, or why he expects Kimi to lift for him. Kimi's wing was alongside his rear tyre, the new rules required Alonso to leave room, which Alonso did not. Kimi had nowhere to go. Alonso had much more room to his right than he claims to avoid contact. I'm an Alonso fan, but Alonso's move was similar to Grosjean's move on Hamilton in Spa, but to a much lesser degree.
Perez made an amateur move on Hamilton. Hamilton played a veteran defensive move on him, Perez never knew what was coming. I always thought Kobayashi was better than him. Koby got his podium on pure pace. Perez's podiums were mixed with clever strategy and tyre conservation. I hope Mclaren is ready to play Sauber style strategies for Perez next year.
On a last note. Maldonado kept it clean and got some points. He appears to be a better learner than Grosjean.
Webber, I hoped he would keep Vettel under pressure as no one else was in a starting position to do so. But...
"first-lap nutcase" Grojean, well here's what he had to say... “I was very careful and kept my line, focusing on the Sauber on the left, then I had an incident with Mark,” “It was nothing special…I was just trying to avoid contact and it didn’t work, so it was a stupid crash. I haven’t had a chance to speak with the team yet.”
He went into tunnel vision again. All he saw was the Sauber on his left. He forgot that there were other cars around him and that there's a next corner where cars around him will slow down to make the turn. I think he was desperately trying to avoid contact with the Sauber, but ran over the car in front instead. He already got the stop/go penalty so there must be no further penalty. But I thought a 10 place grid penalty next race would be more appropriate as his race was already ruined by that time, the stop/go would not make it much worse. Maybe Lotus should let him start from pitlane next race so he could avoid contact and get some points
If there's anything he learned recently, this time he admitted his mistake.Great to see Kobayashi on podium on his home race. He had good pace throughout the race, good job handling the pressure and keeping button behind.
Also great to see Massa on podium again. But it was not on pure pace. He had good pace this weekend but did badly in Q2. He got better luck after the first lap clash, and had further luck when Kobayashi and Button got stuck behind slow cars after their first pit stop. Otherwise, he probably got 4th.
As for Alonso, I think its a race incident. Not sure why Alonso was blaming Kimi though, or why he expects Kimi to lift for him. Kimi's wing was alongside his rear tyre, the new rules required Alonso to leave room, which Alonso did not. Kimi had nowhere to go. Alonso had much more room to his right than he claims to avoid contact. I'm an Alonso fan, but Alonso's move was similar to Grosjean's move on Hamilton in Spa, but to a much lesser degree.
Perez made an amateur move on Hamilton. Hamilton played a veteran defensive move on him, Perez never knew what was coming. I always thought Kobayashi was better than him. Koby got his podium on pure pace. Perez's podiums were mixed with clever strategy and tyre conservation. I hope Mclaren is ready to play Sauber style strategies for Perez next year.
On a last note. Maldonado kept it clean and got some points. He appears to be a better learner than Grosjean.
i was going to post last night and say i thought Webber was weirdly slow in turn 2, as Brundle also pointed out post-race, but didn't as i thought i would get flamed for defending Grosjean. yes he was to blame as he clearly drove into Webber, but Webber did look really slow. with Grosjean's reputation, everyone is going to jump all over him any time he makes contact from now on, even if he isn't 100% to blame.
and Alonso was 100% to blame. he basically did what Grosjean did at Spa, moving too far over when not completely ahead of the guy behind. such a shame as it basically puts Vettel in the driving seat for the title, IMO. I can't see Ferrari out-developing Red Bull in the last 5 races. I hope McLaren are competitive and mix it up a bit so it doesn't become a Vettel sunday cruise for the last 5 races. (my personal preference for the title is Alonso but i can't see him winning it now unless Vettel suffers some DNFs, but hey, anything can still happen.)
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
and Alonso was 100% to blame. he basically did what Grosjean did at Spa, moving too far over when not completely ahead of the guy behind. such a shame as it basically puts Vettel in the driving seat for the title, IMO. I can't see Ferrari out-developing Red Bull in the last 5 races. I hope McLaren are competitive and mix it up a bit so it doesn't become a Vettel sunday cruise for the last 5 races. (my personal preference for the title is Alonso but i can't see him winning it now unless Vettel suffers some DNFs, but hey, anything can still happen.)
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
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