Why Mercedes -schumacher duo failed

Morbid Wrote:
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> I don't understand why people say that Nico had
> the edge on MS on qualifying. Going into the
> Japanese GP the score was 7-7.

The stats are flawed though as in some races Merc did not send their drivers out so MS stated above him!

But even in that situation the starting order was decided by lap time. So, the stat is sound.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2012 04:05PM by EC83.

They set sector times thats all, so yeah great MS does one sector faster as Nico is taking it easy. Them stats mean nothing this year.

marcl Wrote:
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> They set sector times thats all, so yeah great MS
> does one sector faster as Nico is taking it easy.
> Them stats mean nothing this year.


I thought order is about lap time. In 3 qualifying time is taken from results of 2nd qualifying and its not about any unfinished lap times.

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

IWE Wrote:
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> marcl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They set sector times thats all, so yeah great
> MS
> > does one sector faster as Nico is taking it
> easy.
> > Them stats mean nothing this year.
>
>
> I thought order is about lap time. In 3 qualifying
> time is taken from results of 2nd qualifying and
> its not about any unfinished lap times.


yes, it is.

IWE Wrote:
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> marcl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They set sector times thats all, so yeah great
> MS
> > does one sector faster as Nico is taking it
> easy.
> > Them stats mean nothing this year.
>
>
> I thought order is about lap time. In 3 qualifying
> time is taken from results of 2nd qualifying and
> its not about any unfinished lap times.

I thought it was about the sector times they set in Q3, if thats not the case why do they even bother setting them?

i still dont understand why p[eople say senna was faster than schumacher ?? true, senna was fantastic, beat prost mansell etc... but i watched a couple of races from 1992 and 1993 and schuey in his benetton is definately not slower than senna. also in wet condition (e.g. spain 1992) he was the fsater driver.

i still believe that the tragic circumstances around the death of ayrton contributed a lot to how people rate him

mitadumapaga Wrote:
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> i still dont understand why p[eople say senna was
> faster than schumacher ?? true, senna was
> fantastic, beat prost mansell etc... but i watched
> a couple of races from 1992 and 1993 and schuey in
> his benetton is definately not slower than senna.
> also in wet condition (e.g. spain 1992) he was
> the fsater driver.


During that two year rivalry the McLaren and Benetton were relatively comparable cars. It's true that Schumacher had the better of Senna on many ocassions.

It's also true that in 1993 when both were powered by Ford it was Benetton who had the preferential arrangement and will have had an engine advantage (at least early in the season) over McLaren. Yet it was Senna who took the early fight to Prost and Williams with victory at Brazil, Donington and Monaco. Although granted weather played a significant part in two of those and Schumacher had been leading at Monaco with relative ease until his car failed.

But Senna's performance in a car which was vastly inferior to the Williams and for the most part inferior to the Benetton was sensational, 5 victories, to Schumacher's 1, Prost's 7 and Hill's 3.

i dont want to argue who is better. just made my point that they were very close in terms of performance. true, senna had more victories and... more than 10 years more experience so, yeah. But ayrton was really brilliant in 1993, mostly because he was fighting prost i assume.

it all just comes to show what a great driver is currently leaving the big stage... for me, he was the last connection to that TRUE F1 ERA, as many define it. everyone today is doing great job and everyone is very professional... its just that they are MODERN F1 DRIVERS, whereas i really miss the hardcore, imperfect, rule braking, lions like nige, ayrton etc... and the last of them of course, michael.

just watched the 92 german grand prix... pooor old patrese, had to battle with schumacher for about 10 laps, then for another 7 with senna. so 17 laps against the dirtiest and most deadly racers ever to be born... just felt sorry for ricardo, indeed.

mitadumapaga Wrote:
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> i dont want to argue who is better. just made my
> point that they were very close in terms of
> performance. true, senna had more victories and...
> more than 10 years more experience so, yeah. But
> ayrton was really brilliant in 1993, mostly
> because he was fighting prost i assume.
>
> it all just comes to show what a great driver is
> currently leaving the big stage... for me, he was
> the last connection to that TRUE F1 ERA, as many
> define it. everyone today is doing great job and
> everyone is very professional... its just that
> they are MODERN F1 DRIVERS, whereas i really miss
> the hardcore, imperfect, rule braking, lions like
> nige, ayrton etc... and the last of them of
> course, michael.


+1


" Perfection is not a gift ....... it comes with practice."

Member of R.S.C.T Group

You cannot say Senna or MS were faster than each other in 1992 or 1993, they were in different cars.

Senna was faster than Brundle and Brundle gave MS a run for his money in 1992 on many occasions.

For me 1993 was Senna at his best, he was actually getting better and better and got killed in his prime.

The bentton in 1992 was actually a better car than the Mclaren, the mclaren had nothing but problems and was always really tight on fuel. Only at the time of Hungry did they make the car better, the car was late out and just always behind. To many people just look at how many points were scored or highlight clips. You only get the true picture if you watched the whole season and read things like Autosport.

And yes I also miss the days of Senna, Mansell, Piquet and Prost. Ms joined in late and when they were all old or near the end. We were deprived of a proper Senna MS battle. If Hill could battle with MS then im sure Senna would have been able to beat him as Senna was on pole in 1994 and Hill was where?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2012 04:11PM by marcl.

marcl Wrote:
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> If Hill could battle
> with MS then im sure Senna would have been able to
> beat him as Senna was on pole in 1994 and Hill was
> where?

I think the infamous video of Senna's quali lap at the Brazilian grand prix demonstrates this perfectly. You can almost hear the goosebumps on Murray Walker's arms.

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mitadumapaga Wrote:
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> just watched the 92 german grand prix... pooor old
> patrese, had to battle with schumacher for about
> 10 laps, then for another 7 with senna. so 17
> laps against the dirtiest and most deadly racers
> ever to be born... just felt sorry for ricardo,
> indeed.

Looking back now, what that race really highlights is one of the best drives of Senna's career - even better than most of his wins IMO. What he did that day shouldn't really have been possible in that car and on those tyres. It was superhuman.

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EC83 Wrote:
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> mitadumapaga Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > just watched the 92 german grand prix... pooor
> old
> > patrese, had to battle with schumacher for
> about
> > 10 laps, then for another 7 with senna. so 17
> > laps against the dirtiest and most deadly
> racers
> > ever to be born... just felt sorry for ricardo,
> > indeed.
>
> Looking back now, what that race really highlights
> is one of the best drives of Senna's career - even
> better than most of his wins IMO. What he did that
> day shouldn't really have been possible in that
> car and on those tyres. It was superhuman.

Yes, and I think that this kind of drive is what sets the true greats apart. Senna had numerous drives like this - Donington '93 springs to mind - and Schumacher's drive at Barcelona '96 is another good example IMHO. I'd even go so far as to include some of Alonso's performances in the 2001 Minardi.

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